68' engine color? - ClassicOldsmobile.com


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Old July 13th, 2017, 10:49 AM   #1
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68' engine color?

Hello,
New to register for the forum but I've been lurking for a while. I know this question has been asked but what is the correct color?

I purchased a spray bomb from Fusick and a qt. from Bill Hirsch.
The Fusick is on the left and Hirsch is on the right. That is a big difference in shade. If I use the Fusick then I have to match it to a modern single stage urethane as I won't use spraybombs for engine paint. The engine is almost ready to spray.

The Fusick matches the fan hub closer than the Hirsch. The rest of the engine was from a 69' 350 and it matched the Hirsch closer.

I'm helping my dad do a 68' 442 like the one he bought new.

Thank you for any help.
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Old July 13th, 2017, 01:57 PM   #2
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From what I see, the Fusick color is much closer to correct than the other color. The other color looks faded for some reason. The engine color on a 68-69 4-4-2 is supposed to be bronze, not a faded tan.

For my '68, I used the bronze high heat engine paint available from SuperCarsUnlimited, bought in 2006. For my '69, I used the bronze high heat engine paint from Fusick, bought in 2015. The colors they had pretty much match each other.

My '68 won Best In Class at the Olds Nationals in Reno in 2011 and I'm thinking the engine color I used has to be close. That was its first judged outing.

I just used the spray cans (2 per engine) and they still look pretty nice, over 10 years later for the '68.

Randy C.
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Old July 13th, 2017, 08:03 PM   #3
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I agree with Randy. Bronze rather than tan.

John
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Old July 13th, 2017, 09:24 PM   #4
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Rust-Oleum has a high heat (1200F) paint which they call "aged copper" (241232), but to me looks more like bronze and is "close" to the 442 engine. Unfortunately, they don't package it in a brushable version; only a 12 oz. spray. I've sprayed it into an open can and brushed it anyway.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 04:12 AM   #5
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Thanks guys. Not what I wanted to hear. I'm not gonna buy another color just to sample. When I poke around the internet at engine pictures I seem to see both colors on 68's and I see more of the tan version than the bronze.

I'll probably run to the paint store today with both sprayouts and pick something in urethane single stage as that is in between? That Fusick is really orange and the Hirsch is tanish. Although the Hirsch looks better when it isn't next to the orange one. It shows more bronze that dissapears next to the orange one.

I would like to know if the factory varied this much when new. (it is an engine so they probably didn't care about consistency) My dad used to work at Olds and told me they used to break off one of the electrical connector tabs before they installed the harness so they could keep up with the line. That was the quality of the 60's were dealing with.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 09:11 AM   #6
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Rust-Oleum has a high heat (1200F) paint which they call "aged copper" (241232), but to me looks more like bronze and is "close" to the 442 engine. Unfortunately, they don't package it in a brushable version; only a 12 oz. spray. I've sprayed it into an open can and brushed it anyway.

I just detailed my engine and Aged Copper isn't even close for a 68-69 engine.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 09:19 AM   #7
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This is a picture of a 68 400 G block with original paint on it . The top patch of paint at the top that looks like its chipped is the original paint. The next color is Fusick. The bottom is Aged Copper. I painted the Fusick Bronze over the Aged Copper so only a bit of Aged Copper is at the bottom. It is much lighter than the original Bronze.


The motor picture at right is my motor after it was painted. FWIW I used almost three cans but like others have said it goes on really thin. I wanted a lot of paint on the crossover because I know its going to want to burn there
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Old July 14th, 2017, 09:50 AM   #8
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This is what I used. It is thin going on and takes 2 cans per engine.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 10:11 AM   #9
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This is what I used. It is thin going on and takes 2 cans per engine.

It seems that Tamraz has got the color closer than they used to. This is a pic of my motor from when I originally painted it 10 years ago with Tamraz bronze before I had a clue as to what shade it was supposed to be. Most of the reason I repainted it was because the color was so far off
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Old July 14th, 2017, 01:19 PM   #10
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...and here are the finishes on my '68 and '69 4-4-2 convertibles. The '68 paint came from SuperCarsUnlimited, the '69 from Fusick.

Randy C.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 02:30 PM   #11
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Looks like they all are a crap shoot. Let us know what you decide to use Brad.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 02:56 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Brad J. View Post
Thanks guys. Not what I wanted to hear. I'm not gonna buy another color just to sample. When I poke around the internet at engine pictures I seem to see both colors on 68's and I see more of the tan version than the bronze.
But how many of those are original paint?
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Old July 14th, 2017, 03:03 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by allyolds68 View Post
I just detailed my engine and Aged Copper isn't even close for a 68-69 engine.
Now I'm wondering if the Olds engine paint changed through the years. My comparison was for the 65-66 400 engines.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 03:03 PM   #14
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Forget about spray bombs Get some basecoat mixed, Mazda Code Y9 Radiant copper is a Dead match to all the original parts i have had over the years.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 03:11 PM   #15
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Forget about spray bombs Get some basecoat mixed, Mazda Code Y9 Radiant copper is a Dead match to all the original parts i have had over the years.
Any pics of that color? That would be cool to see.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 03:33 PM   #16
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Any pics of that color? That would be cool to see.
My 68 is buried in storage i will try to get to for some pictures
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Old July 14th, 2017, 06:00 PM   #17
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Randy,
What paint did you use on the engine in your 2nd pic (White Car)?
That engine looks great to me. I hope to have my 69 442 looking that good soon.
Both look good
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Old July 14th, 2017, 06:33 PM   #18
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Oddly enough, they are both white cars! The second car (the '69) I used rattle can bronze from Fusick. Two cans and it took all of it. Sprayed it on pretty thick. As I recall, it was just sprayed on at the factory and there are runs and bare spots that go with the original factory job. I made sure I got all of both engines so maybe it's not like factory original?!!

Randy C.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 04:19 AM   #19
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Randy,

Your two engines look like the Hirsch tan color. Much closer to that then the Fusick sample. Makes me want to shoot it the Hirsch color.

I went to finishmaster yesterday and picked out something a little in between. I did a sprayout and it's more orange then the Fusick. This is turning into one of those PIA jobs. 140 bucks into it and I'm not happy yet.

I'm interested in the Mazda code but honestly I'm running out of patience for a job that won't be shown.

I only had one piece with original paint on it and that was the fan hub. I cleaned it up and it sorta matched the fusick. Then my dad blasted it and that reference was gone. The engine in his car was a 69' 350 that was gold color.

I'm getting the feeling the Olds crowd is more forgiving then the NCRS guys. They can be brutal on judging and just plain miserable to be around.

Thanks again for the information.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 05:00 AM   #20
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When I bought my '68 back in '12 the engine color was too orange for my taste. I blew it apart for detailing that winter & I used the bronze spray bombs from Fusick. I had some engine parts in my stash(valve cover tabs,t-stat housing, etc. from an old '68 that still had original paint on them. The Fusick color seemed to match very well,plus it covered great.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 08:14 AM   #21
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There is no doubt the Olds folks are much more forgiving than the NCRS (or Pontiac, too, for that matter) people. I belong to NCRS as well and had a '71 Corvette for nearly 39 years - sold it two months ago - that's where I learned about numbers, date codes, fasteners, even simply reading an assembly manual. I know my '68 (and the '69) are as close to 100% numbers correct as one can get cars like those in today's world but, in judging my '68 back in 2011, no one looked at any numbers at all - no taking off the air cleaner, no putting the car up on a lift to see underneath, anything like that. With Olds judging, as it stands now, if it looks right on the surface, well then it is right. If you have a 400 engine and it looks bronze, that's good enough for Olds judging, in my opinion. And, I've read where other folks on this site have said the shade of bronze can change, depending upon paint batches, how thin or thick the paint goes on, and (my add) maybe even the day of the week the engine was painted!

So, when I bought bronze paint, I just looked for a supplier that had it and I used what they had - first time around it was SuperCarsUnlimited, second time around it was Fusick. I've received both compliments and criticisms for the shade of engine paint on my cars. But that's just the way it is and I'm happy with it.

Another thing - when I restored the '68, I really got into the weeds with it; so much so that I'm almost afraid to drive it now. I did the '69 in a different fashion - not nearly the detail - and I enjoy driving that car much more.

Randy C.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 09:04 AM   #22
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I believe the Mazda code paint and the Fusick paint are regarded as as close to correct as can currently be gotten. I have an extremely grimy original 442 powertrain from 67 that I purchased from Ed Skaff shortly before his passing that I saw where one of the straps had abraded through the dirt and the paint on the valve cover, but, under that grime may be enough good paint to get some data. I also have some 442 valve covers in a box around here with original paint in good shape. Someday I will compare them before painting mine and post results.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 10:28 AM   #23
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Bare with me the photos are not great as it was dimly lit and dusty
But this is the 9Y Mazda code. I cannot believe more guys have not gone with it. The unrelenting desire to use spray bombs is insane, none of it is accurate period. This is it for the Olds bronze.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 11:02 AM   #24
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Thanks all. Earlier today I looked up the Mazda Y9 code and it looked nothing like your engine. Looked really gold on the car pictures I found.

Part of my delay is I don't use spraybombs for anything. It all gets activated. Using the Hirsch stuff without activator was out of my comfort zone but I heard good things about the color in my other searches.

I have the engine completly prepped and ready to seal/paint. I want my paintbooth back so I might spray it with my stuff today. Still on the fence. I like what I'm seeing from the mazda pics.

I'll post final pictures with good/bad/or ugly.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 01:22 PM   #25
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Well, for what its worth here's some pictures of a bellhousing with factory overspray. There's a LOT of overspray... back to the concept of these being assembly line cars that we're restoring with a little more detail

It might also make a difference that I'm out in the sunlight and the part is on a white hood.










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Old July 15th, 2017, 01:41 PM   #26
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Amazing how much overspray on that bellhousing. Looks like it made it to the Trans. Which brings up a question . It has been believed the bellhousing and motors were attached for paint , hence the overspray. But not the Trans, Yet it looks like this motor and trans were attached complete before paint. Are you 100% sure this is OEM?
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Old July 15th, 2017, 02:30 PM   #27
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Not 100%, but strongly believe it was. The reason I believe that is the story told to me was the car had low miles on it when it was wrecked. Then parked, and eventually raided for parts. This was a 1968 442 that it came off of. But the person I bought the car from was the second or possibly third owner. So since I didn't get that from the original owner I can't say 100%

One more thing, it was a Fremont built car and there have been a few odd things they did different from other plants. I don't know if its realistic for this to me one of them.

John
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Old July 16th, 2017, 04:43 AM   #28
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I went ahead and sprayed it with the Dupont Chromapremier single stage that I bought on friday. The picture makes it look more orange than bronze but in person it looks really good. I'm happy with it.

The black is an epoxy that I sealed the block/heads with before assembly. Once assembled then I scotchbrighted everything followed by a thin coat of reduced epoxy and then 3 light coats of paint. Had to be light to keep the metallics where they belong.

I know I didn't follow everyones advice but thank you for the tips as I would've shot it with the Hirsch without the info on here. My version looks much better than the Hirsch.

The formula is from the Dupont(axalta) color library book. It wasn't in a SS formula but a base/clear formula so the paint store mixed it into SS with the correct binder. They had the formula in Nason but it's a cheaper line of paint I don't use unless I have to.

Formula YM095 Specramaster Yellow
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Old July 16th, 2017, 05:56 AM   #29
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Is the Dupont Chromapremier a high temp paint? If not isn't it just going to burn off at the intake manifold cross-over and at the head's mating surface with the manifolds/headers?

I hate to see you put this much effort into it just to get charcoal fried paint

BTW the paint color looks spot-on

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Old July 16th, 2017, 09:35 AM   #30
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That paint is nice.

On the sidebar conversation, I'll toss in two current OEM points:

1. The engines come from the engine plant to the flexplate, and the auto trans has the TC in the transmission, with a strap from a TC bolt to a bellhousing bolt. Sticks are the opposite, the bellhousing is on and holds the clutch, the finger plate, or whatever it's called, and whatever else onto the flywheel. Also keeps the flywheel covered. I am pretty sure it's always been done this way because it makes sense. I should see if there's overspray on my daily driver, as it is one of the few cast iron blocks and manual we still make and paint.

2. Back then, I think the cars died mechanically before they rusted out. Now, it's a tossup. The cars are supposed to get to X years old with minimal maintenance, still look pretty good, and be reliable. So, now we fight rust. Everything is painted, not to look good, but for rust prevention. If there's an assembly hole, and it got its bolt, it gets a sticker, a "hole plug" of serious black plastic with serious sticky. It's supposed to last a few years and buy some time before rust can start there.
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Old July 16th, 2017, 11:10 AM   #31
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Mike, it has the mondello block off plates under the intake. This should help. It might burn a little above the exhaust but most of them do.

The only thing different on most heat paints or engine enamels is the label. This stuff holds up good to heat and better to fuel than the non catalyised stuff. I've used it for years on engines. Cadillac 390 engines will burn it off a little right where the olds do on the intake. Other than that I've never seen any burn on a regular style engine.
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Old July 16th, 2017, 08:03 PM   #32
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This thread has gotten almost as much attention as one for engine oil. I realize that the original question was for 1968, and that by itself may void my comments, but I thought that I'd post some pictures of my experience with the Rust-Oleum stuff. My comparison was to 1965 & 1966 engine components that have never been repainted. Color comparison is a slippery slope. Light color and angles matter. Surface texture matters. "Close" is a relative term. Compared to the sun, the Earth's moon is close.
The first shows a close-up of a sample of the Rust-Oleum on a relatively smooth piece of sheet metal against the front surface of a rocker cover on a 1965 400 engine that has never been repainted.




The next two show the same sample against the intake manifold of a 1966 400 which has never been repainted.


All photos were made under the same 3200K photo-flood lamp with the same Nikon L12 camera with no filter. No editing of the photos was done except for cropping/resizing. The smooth rocker cover appears different from the rough surface of the casting. As you can see even the appearance of the sample differs between the images. It was the same sample. Hence, detecting a "close" match may be difficult. I apologize for any misunderstandings I may have created. In the end, just getting something that we like may bring adequate "happiness".
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Old July 17th, 2017, 03:21 AM   #33
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Manual transmission bell housings were installed before engine paint and the trans/gearbox were installed after engine paint. (…according to the engine/final assembly manuals)..correct me if I am wrong.

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Old August 27th, 2017, 03:40 PM   #34
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I'd go with the one on the left for sure. Fusick
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Old September 14th, 2017, 11:49 PM   #35
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How do you like that Offy Dual Port intake? Judging by the number seen for sale on ebay they must have sold a lot of them. I have a Offy 360 intake for BBO I'm contemplating using but I've never seen an article on them, how they run. Sorry for sidetracking the thread and thanks to everyone for the posts and paint numbers.
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Old September 15th, 2017, 05:18 AM   #36
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How do you like that Offy Dual Port intake? Judging by the number seen for sale on ebay they must have sold a lot of them. I have a Offy 360 intake for BBO I'm contemplating using but I've never seen an article on them, how they run. Sorry for sidetracking the thread and thanks to everyone for the posts and paint numbers.
It should tell you something that no other manufacturer has ever released a similar intake. It's just two single plane manifolds stacked - one for primaries and one for secondaries. All of the disadvantages of a single plane at low speeds and all of the restriction of a dual plane at high speeds.
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Old September 16th, 2017, 06:28 AM   #37
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Android,

I had a choice between this and toronodo intake. It came with a busted jet boat block that I was given. I had to open up the area around the rear butterflies for use with a q-jet. I didn't want a big hokey spacer plate in between the carb and manifold.

It looks good and I'm sure it will run fine for my application.
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Old September 16th, 2017, 11:09 AM   #38
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i ran the offy dual port intake for years with 800 holley on a stock w30 engine that was in my 65 442,4 spd,3.91s,car ran 12.60 all day.seemed pretty good to me.
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Old September 16th, 2017, 04:45 PM   #39
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Manual transmission bell housings were installed before engine paint and the trans/gearbox were installed after engine paint. (…according to the engine/final assembly manuals)..correct me if I am wrong.


I would say they used something to mask it off,then pull it off after it gets to the end of paint line,tossed in a bin with a buch of others and returned back to the front of the paint line. we did that at fisher for a few things. regarding the overspray on the bellhousing, could be the line stopped and they guy just put more on waiting for the line to go again.
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