Giddy

Currently on my 1970 442 with the stock 455 there is no fan clutch. Could I order this part from Fusick FC2705 Fan Clutch 1966-76 all with fan clutch 69.50 and install it easy enough?

Also there is no fan shroud on the car. The bracket for the shroud is installed and there are a few plastic clips on the radiator that might be for a shroud but I am not sure. Could I just order this 402995 Radiator Shroud 1968-70 all 115.00? Would anyone know what clips or brackets I would need to install this on my radiator? I noticed these in Fusick's catalog
RI2021 Insulators 1966-70 all (set of four, 2 long, 6", 2 short, 5 1/2") 19.50 set RI2020 Insulators 1966-70 all (set of four long, 6") 19.50 set

How would I know which ones I would need?

The car has been getting hot when I drive it " or at idle in the garage so I figured I better get these parts and hopefully it will run cooler.

Also is there any place I could order the inside hood latch? the little latch itself broke off.

Thanks in advance for any help,
Chris

70Post

Is there any way you can post pics???

You may need a different radiator top plate/cover (the stamped metal piece that holds down the top of the radiator).

There are two tabs on the bottom of the fan shroud...these sit in front of two metal tabs spot welded onto the bottom of the radiator support (your car may not have these two metal tabs...again that's why pics would be nice).

The top of the fan shroud sits under the radiator top plate...but you need the correct top plate to use the fan shroud. Cars without HD cooling and/or some non-air conditioned cars with 3 core radiators...these typically used the "non fan shroud" type top plate.

Do you know if your car is a factory 4 core (ie HD cooling) or a factory 3 core radiator setup???

2blu442

Chris, I've got a 1970 442 and was having trouble with it overheating in the summer time. I had a clutch fan and shroud, but putting in a 4 core radiator is what finally did the trick for me. John

Giddy

I am not sure on how many cores my radiator is. Is there an easy way to tell? I know for sure that it needs flushed. The fluid looked pretty dirty today.

I can take some pics Saturday, where are the areas I should focus on the top bracket for the shroud? Bottom of the radiator and the little tabs on the radiator? Anywhere else?

What 4 core radiator does everyone seem to use and where do they order it from in case I need to get a new one?

Thanks again

hamm36

If you do have these: the u-type clips and bolts that hold the front wheel wells to the finders work good at the bottom of the fan shroud - bolt through the metal tabs.
The same on the top should work - bolt through the top plate.
No plastic clips that I know of. That might be were the old one was broken off ?
Look at it from the top and you should be able to tell - probable 3 rows most common. A good flush is PM.

Not on radiator. Where 70post stated, "the bottom of the radiator support." There are only four: two bolts through top plate and two on bottom as stated.

A good local radiator shop can get one.

70Post

If you order a 4 core radiator you should probably FIRST get the measurement for the stock lower radiator hose ID [or conversely...the OD of the FACTORY 4 core lower outlet(or inlet..whichever the lower one is)]. The reason I say this is I have twice now seen new 4 core radiators come with a REDUCED O.D. Lower outlet/inlet. Then they include a cheesy rubber sleeve to slip over the outlet/inlet so it fits the factory hose. On one car this was leaking and we soon found out why....what a joke! On the other radiator which I helped a buddy install, we just took the thing back to the radiator shop that ordered it and had them install the proper OD outlet/inlet.

One radiator was in a car that came down here from Michigan and the one in my buddy's car was ordered here in Austin, TX...so it's apparently not real uncommon (or they happened to be the same brand).

Just be aware of it.

Giddy

Thanks I will take a look at it this weekend.

joe_padavano

That's a good tip, but the first thing to figure out is whether the car is configured for the four row or the two or three row core. The top plate and lower brackets for the four row radiator are different due to the different thickness of the core and end tanks. Two and three row radiators use the same end tanks and interchange.

Bluevista

a 4 core radiator has four flat tubes running horizontally next to each other between the tanks stacked at spaced intervals and the fins hold them and run vertically. If you look at it from the front or back near the tanks you can see them between the fins and tank.
Do you have a fan clutch type fan? It bolts to the clutch which in turn bolts to the water pump pulley.
Here are some illustrations of a 1971 type set-up, think it's about the same deal on a '70.

img088.jpg

img089.jpg

Lady72nRob71

Look in the cap opening and look how many rows of tubes go through it.

In this picture, the two shroud tabs can be seen sticking up from the lower support:


They are easy to spot here in this picture - they are rust colored.
The lower shroud bolts go through those holes and into the shroud-mounted U-nuts (available at your local Napa).
This is from my '72 A/C 3-row core car...

One word of advice - trial fit the fan clutch before installing the shroud. You MAY have to file the clutch's bolt holes SLIGHTLY to allow it to go on easily. (Another repro SNAFU.)
Fighting with it with the shroud on is a royal pain...

Giddy

Those pictures are very helpful, Thank you! I might stop by the car today and see if I can get the pics and post them, for your recommendations and to show off the car!

I don't seem to remember those tabs on the lower bracket but I may be wrong. They don't look to hard to make and weld on if I don't have them.

I'll take some pics of the fan I currently have on it too.

2blu442

Here's a picture of a 4 core top plate without a shroud. Note the ends where it fits over the radiator, that's the big difference between the 4 core top plate and the 2 or 3 core. John

P1010257.jpg

Giddy

Ok so it looks like I have a two or three row radiator so I don't have the correct upper or lower plates for the four core radiator. So I need to order both of those plates a 4 row radiator and a fan shroud. Is Fusick the best place to order these parts minus the radiator? Also should I go with an aluminum radiator or standard? Is there anything else I am missing. I think I am going to hold off on the clutch fan for now unless you guys think I will need that too.

Well I guess the shroud brackets aren't available from Fusick. Does anyone know where to find shroud and radiator brackets?

It also has two electric fans on the front but they don't seem to help much. I probably wont put them on the 4 row radiator.

Here is a pic of the car, a picture of the radiator and a picture of the fan. It is a post coupe as you can tell. It is an all matching car. My uncle restored it in the early 80's and changed it to the current color. It was originally canary yellow. It needs a new paint job since a little rust is starting to show on the lower rear fenders and the rear bumper has some rust showing too. It has 69,000 original miles.

It also has two electric fans on the front but they don't seem to help much.

P8020072.jpg

P2130097.jpg


P2130096.jpg

Lady72nRob71

Sharp looking car, Giddy!
To my eye, that is no 2 core - looks mighty thick. Did you pop the radiator cap of and look inside for how many tubes go from the front to the back?

I think you need the clutch for the fan. Might as well do this all at once and do it right... Did you check your local Napa? They surprise me sometimes... You will need to know your water pump length though. Fusicks has a shroud i believe and the clutch fan.

As to get a 3 core or 4, I cannot say for sure...
Since you do not have A/C, I would think a 3 should be okay but if you are replacing anyway, pay the little extra and get the 4. Of course, I do NOT know where to get the correct brackets and plates...

Did you have the little tabs at the lower bracket like mine? I cannot see them in the picture...

70Post

It's a three core radiator....likely original to the car as it's a non-ac car.

Like Rob said..really can't get a good focus on the area at the bottom of the radiator support to tell if the little spotwelded-on tabs are there. I'll bet they aren't on there as I think I can see the area where one of the tabs should be in one of your pics. You can fab some out of sheet metal.

You are potentially opening a "can of worms" here....need brackets for the bottom of the rad support (or you can just remove yours, cut in half and re-attach each in two separate pieces spaced apart to match a four core bracket size), need proper placement for the brackets, etc.

That's a factory 3 core non-ac/non fan shroud top plate that you have in there.
Are you trying to do this in an "original, looks-like-it-was-a-four-core-from-the-factory" way or are you just wanting to get a 4 core in there and not too concerned about it looking like original???????

Finally, update your profile to show your location....it may also help you get responses to your want ad.

2blu442

Hello Chris
I second Rob's comment, you've got a nice car! I replied to your email about parts I have. Let me know if you have any questions. I'm not familiar with the style of license plate on your car, but it looks like California. What part of the state are you located in? John

citcapp

I would think a 3-core radiator would cool the 455 just fine. Have you thought about taking it to a good shop to have it cleaned and rodded out? Thats a good place to start and also save money. I have a 3 core in my 57 with a 455 that is a fully built motor, hot cam, aluminum heads. high compression and it never runs over 180 with a standard clutch fan. Also a shroud will help focus the air flow to help the cooling. Good luck

oldsconv

I think the fan itself is different for clutch versus non-clutch, so I think you need to get the fan as well as clutch?

The Parts Place sells the longer brackets that the 4 core radiator sits in for the bottom as well as the top (so you can convert a 3 core top plate to 4 core by cutting and welding the ends).

Inline tube sells the bottom brackets that hold the fan shroud.

70Post

Also--Don't overlook the "basic" stuff first like checking the timing, installing a good thermostat, a water pump with the original type cast iron impeller and its "closed off" fins that move the water better, (compared to the newer rebuilds with their stamped steel "open" impellers), etc, etc.

You have an aftermarket flex fan on there now...get rid of it....those things are hell when your wrench slips off a bolt or nut.

You may be able to have your radiator re-cored with a high efficiency 3 row core.

The fan shrouds are still available new from GM if you have someone local that can get you a decent deal at a GM dealership parts counter. There should also be plenty of these floating around in good used condition (save some $$$) as well as a factory 6 blade fan (can provide the correct diameter, pics, etc).

Giddy

Thanks guys! I don't have the brackets on the lower core plate either. I was hoping to make it look pretty original but I will work with what I can get.

I opened the cap and looked for the rows but to be honest I wasn't sure what I was looking for and didn't see anything.

I updated my location in my profile. I am in Eureka, CA.

The water pump was replaced a few years ago but I don't remember what kind was put on it. Also I am pretty sure my dad put a 180 degree thermostat on it because it had a 160 and he was trying to prevent it from heating up so much. He also had two electric fans put on the front.

I looked at NAPA online and it looks like they have fans and clutch assemblies so I will give my local store a call. That is all I should need for that the fan and clutch assembly?

The car has been sitting in the barn covered for awhile so I really need to clean it up.

I would be really happy if I could get it to idle and stay cool. How hot should be the maximum it should get too?

My local radiator shop was closed today but I will give them a call on Monday and see what they think.

Oh yeah the radiators width was between 2.25-2.5".

Thanks again for all your help!

Lady72nRob71

Did you drain or siphon out a few cups of coolant so you could see int the core area? If so and you still could not see anything, then it may be pretty darn corroded in there.
Have your radiator shop give you some ideas - rebuilding may be cheaper and more original looking.

If you change the t'stat again, use a Mr Gasket high-flow unit. Autozone sells these and I use them in all my older vehicles.

If you get a direct replacement clutch from Napa, you will need a stock type fan to go on it. If Napa does not have it, Fusicks or the Parts place may have one or you can get a good used one somewhere and repaint it.

Giddy

Well I took a little more fluid out of the radiator and was able to confirm it is a 3 row. Here are a couple of fuzzy pics showing the corrosion. I am not sure if the corrosion is real bad or about normal. Anyway I definitely need to do something.

P2140004.jpg

P2140003.jpg

My442

Is that picture a joke????

The fluid looks like it is 20 years old.

The block is probably just as bad.

That radiator core is junk.

citcapp

Pull the radiator and take it to a shop for evaluation. May not be as bad as it looks. They can pull the tanks and rod out the core or replace. Get a quote before you make a decision to see if a new radiator would be cheaper. Good Luck

PS flush the block while you are ate it.

Giddy

Nope no joke that is what it looks like. I thought it was bad! Yeah I know the block also needs flushed. It still runs though . I don't know for how long. The fluid looks pretty bad but not as bad as the picture makes it look.

Thanks again for the help. If the shop tells me to just get a new radiator I guess I should go with a new 4 row and start buying the parts. Does anyone know how much wider the 4 row radiators are?

By the way what is the best way to fluch the block while the radiator is off? Is there a plug on the side that needs to be removed and then rn water through it?

Thanks

2blu442

Hi Chris
Nice to hear your a local guy, at least more local than most! Next time you get over to the valley you'll have to give me a call and see if our schedules match. I'm thinking it doesn't get that hot over on the coast, so you may be fine with a 3 core that works well, and a clutch fan with 6 or 7 blades, a shroud, and one of those thermostats Rob mentioned. If you don't mind used, I have the shroud, 6 blade clutch fan, and lower tabs for the shroud. Did you have your car in the Medford Cruise last summer? There were only a few Oldsmobiles there and your car does look kinda familiar.....

John

Giddy

No John, I don't mind used as long as the shroud isn't broken, the rest can be cleaned up with a little elbow grease and paint. I havn't been to the Medford Cruise, I might try and make it in the future. I have been over to Redding at Cool April nights, but not for awhile.

I searched in my parents garage and grandpa's barn for hours today and still couldn't find that upper shroud bracket. I know it will turn up sooner or later. I guess I will pull out the radiator tonight or tomorrow and bring it the radiator shop and see what they think.

It looks like a 4 row radiator runs around $289 from places like this http://www.car-stuff.com/mmparts/old.../radiator.html
Looks like the 3 core run about the same http://oldsparts.com/Page51.htm

Is it ok to just run tap water through the block to flush it? Is there a plug somewhere on the side to pull to make sure all the old crap comes out or should it all make it's way out at the bottom?

70Post

Well---you are going this far so do it right...there are two threaded plugs on the P side of the block and one on the D side. Just above the oil pan rail. You may have to remove some stuff to get to them...just get under there with a light and see how much access you have.

The bottom of the cooling jackets are probably full of rusty junk...don't be suprised if you remove a plug(s) and nothing comes out. Get a pick or piece of coat hangar and poke it through the crusty gunk...should get some water flowing.

Remove them all if possible and start flushing. You can even take a piece of wire or coat hangar, bend it and push it around a little inside the plug holes.

Only distilled water on your refill with whatever anitfreeze/anticorrosion stuff you use (ie Prestone, etc).

If you have a good radiator, fan and fan clutch you should look into ditching any electric fans you have on there....you should not need them.

One thing you said above...said you can't "locate your upper radiator fan shroud bracket" or something like that. What are you referring to there????

Cool looking car!

Giddy

"upper radiator fan shroud bracket" What I meant is I have an upper radiator bracket that is meant for a shroud while the one that is on it now isn't meant for a shroud, although I can't seem to find it yet.

My radiator is out and it is ready to head to the radiator shop . Hopefully they are open. Tomorrow I will try and remove those plugs on the side of the engine and run water through it. I will use distilled for the final after I get me radiator back installed. Thanks for letting me know there are 3 plugs to remove.

Also when I took off the transmission cooling lines no fluid came out. Is this normal since the engine isn't running?

70Post

OK---from now on refer to it as the "Top Plate". Hey, if anything, it's shorter and easier to type.

Giddy

Will do! Thanks for the help.

70Post

While you are at it get a good thermostat as mentioned in other responses...you want one of the highflow/balanced stats made by RobertShaw Industries (also sold under the Mr Gasket brand--can usually find these in the small performance parts section at O'Reilly's). Here's a pic. I would go with a 160 stat but you can get a day's worth of arguments over thermo temps so I'll leave it at that.

And yes, if you want to be completely thorough...test the new stat on the stove in some water and something to measure the temperature.

What you are trying to do is eliminate the variables or potential problem areas so you really don't know if a thermostat is working as it is supposed to until you first test it.....even a quality stat.

mugzilla

I was in Fortuna for Fortuna Auto Expo at the end of july. My radiator started coming apart at the seams. The local radiator shop rebuilt it with a American ( not chinese) core and the transferred the factory tags to the rebuilt radiator. Someone else mentioned a stock radiator clutch. I used a factory Heavy Duty FAn Clutch .....

Lady72nRob71

You may need to clean away grime and dirt to find the drain plugs on the block. I thought there were only two - I must have another lurking about undercover down there.

Use a spray nozzle on your water hose and really blast water through the block from different inlets, esp. the back upper heater port (heater valve is open with no vacuum).

That is normal for no tranny fluid to come out of the cooler lines when the engine is off. I clamped a short piece of hose to both of mine just so i could move the car in and out of the garage under its power.

Speaking of fan clutches, the one you want is a thermal type with the little bimetalic coil on the front and the fins around the body. I think most of the Olds engines used this type in the early 70s. It engages and disengages depending on temperature, rather than engine RPMs.

Giddy

The shop in Fortuna is where I am getting the quote for my radiator, they are easy to deal with. It looks like it would cost the same to rebuild it than to just order a new 4 row radiator. Although if it gets rebuilt they will rebuild it using a high efficiency core and the guy at the shop seemed to think it would have comparable cooling to the standard 4 row.

I think I am leaning towards getting it re-cored now.

I ran water through the block pretty good yesterday, but I will run some more through the heater port and see if some more stuff flushes out.

I also still need to find those lower plugs in the block. I think the headers on the car may be blocking them.

70Post

The plugs are down by the motor mount area on the bottom sides of the block. They are below the freeze plugs.

mugzilla

Tell him the guy with the '70 442 highly recomends him. I went with the rebuild and it looked "Factory " when he was done ...

Giddy

Mugzilla are you running a 4 row 3 row radiator?

mugzilla

4 row ...

If you plan on 1/4 mile runs a 3 row is lighter ...

I like gymkana stuff and hard runs(hwy 36 ) so the 4 core is the thing ...

I'm also in s0cal so the extra cooling is good ...

I haven't found an 442 overflow tank yet so I'm running a vista cruiser tank ...

I think I'll run the VC rally bars also ...

mugzilla

???