70-442-W30

So if seat belts save lives, they should only save the rear seat passengers? Doesn't make much sense to me.

MDchanic

Some people don't want to wear seatbelts.

Some people want to smoke.

Some people want to drive old cars without airbags.

Far as I'm concerned, it's a free country - do what you want as long as you don't bother me.

- Eric

70-442-W30

Yep, free country. Do as you will. But you sure must trust others driving skills a lot more than I trust them.

hookem horns

We make decisions on acceptable risk every day and I mostly agree with the last few posts, but basic safety devices (lap belts for us & helmets for bikers) can prevent fender benders from becoming fatalities.

The decision to skip these is a bit selfish in my opinion. The friends and family you leave behind will know your death was easily preventable. If you cause the accident (no one on this board, of course), a complete stanger may have to live with the fact they killed someone unnecessarily.

70-442-W30

Overall, I'm kind of sorry I started this thread. I knew there would be some differing views on what is the right thing to do, that's why I posted the lighthearted poll. However, I didn't think it would become a "my way is the only way" type of discussion. I know we all do things differently. I don't think I'm better than anyone who doesn't wear a belt when driving. And I certainly wouldn't tell them that I'm smarter than they are, or that they don't deserve to drive a classic car because they might launch through the windshield. Or that they take way too many chances in life and if something happens then yes...I told you so. (Just reversing some of what has been thrown my way here...)

A lot of this probably has to do with how we were raised and how far the seat belt issue was pushed on us. My mom always made me promise that when driving I would wear my belt. So that's what I do. Had I been raised in a household that didn't make that a priority, then I might be a little more lenient.

My overall issue when starting this was not to hear what is right or wrong...but to find out how much of a project it would be to make the car safer. Seatbelts, tires, brakes...etc. Just want to keep it in able to return to factory original condition without any irreversible modifications.

I've had some good feedback and I'm hoping to be able to use it should I get the car on the road. Or if it just happens to sit in my garage forever...I'll be sure to mark a perimeter around the car in yellow and black safety tape so you don't trip over yourself when you are staring at it in awe. Safety first! HA!

hookem horns

Don't let the banter discourage you as this is a very good board overall. Make the safety decision you are comfortable with and ask questions if you need help excuting it. Specific questions tend to get specific answers but we wander on open ended ones. The smart guys on here that post frequently have helped me through many technical issues and provided a chuckle or two along the way.

MDchanic

I think that some people underestimate the power of the thread title, as a way of generating a first impression.

"Safety first in a 442????" is a provocative title, and to many of us absurd on its face, and therefore possibly indicative of an improbable degree of naïveté - The 442 and its contemporaries are horribly engineered cars, dangerously overpowered for their brakes, steering, shock absorbers, suspension geometry, and tires, and, by any modern definition, essentially death traps. They were marketed mostly to young people (us or our friends), many, if not most, of whom drove them extremely recklessly (how many of us didn't wreck one at some point or another?), and any of us who remembers them "back in the day," likely associates those memories with numerous activities (speeding, street racing, drinking and driving, etc.) that nobody would consider safe.

"How to increase the safety of a 442?" would be a thread that would generate mature suggestions, but "Safety first in a 442" will inevitably strike many of us as oxymoronic.

Good discussion, though.

- Eric

Bernhard

Debate is good and different view points even better, as long as it is done with respect.
Have a good day

oldcutlass

All vehicles have parameters in which they were designed. If you stay within those parameters, these cars are very safe. This does not include the pimply faced kid or soccer mom texting while driving that's will run into your back bumper while your stopped at a traffic light. Or the drunks, the truck load of teens, or any other idiot out on the road today The real problem is that most of us grew up with these cars and know what to expect. Some have not and they spew negativity while comparing them to the safer, yawn... mostly boring cars of today. Todays cars are trying to overcome as much of the human stupidity and ignorance they can while adding gadgets that distract the occupants even more, go figure.

Face it our cars are as simple as they get with the safety features from a simpler time. These cars did not have the smooth ride of a late model Cadi, they did not stop on a dime, and you had to pay attention while driving them. The W30 had power, however compared to todays Vettes, Camaros, Mustangs, and a lot of rice grinders, they are archaic dinosaurs with a lot less power.

Drive the car and enjoy, stay within the designed parameters, and for gods sake watch out for the idiots and the amateur drunks. Life is too short to sweat the small stuff

70cutty

Well said Eric. I don't think any of us went out and bought one of these cars for their safety features.
To the op, I didn't mean any disrespect, I was just trying to make a point that if you are after a safe car, don't buy a classic.

MDchanic

Thank you.

To put it yet another way, I will leave it to The Boss:

"In the day we sweat it out on the street of a runaway American dream.
At night we ride through mansions of glory in suicide machines.
Sprung from cages on Highway 9, chrome wheeled, fuel injected, and steppin' out over the line."

- Eric

joe_padavano

I absolutely agree with this - UNTIL it hits my wallet. Sorry, but my auto insurance rates subsidize the medical bills for those who don't wear belts. I have no problem with adults deciding their own fate, but take responsibility for the costs.

MDchanic

All well and good, Joe, so long as you acknowledge that this is grey area.

Many things that people do entail more or less risk than other things:

• Ride a motorcycle vs drive a car.
• Drive the newest, safest car vs an older car like ours (vs an even older car, like a Model A).
• Skydive vs watch TV.
• Drive a mile to work vs walk.
• Eat organic nuts and berries vs dine at McDonalds.
• Smoke heavily vs smoke occasionally vs chew tobacco vs smoke weed vs none of the above.

So long as you accept that every one of us makes decisions that may statistically (but not necessarily individually) affect our health or lifespan every single day, and that your choice of which ones to focus your annoyance on may or may not be related to their actuarial cost, I have no argument with you.

- Eric

70-442-W30

Was more so comedic sarcasm. But it is hard to read that through a thread title. But it takes a while to get to know someone, and their personality...so give me time...

70-442-W30

I know, right? Our Flex has sports scores, a weather map, movie times, etc. I have no clue how this got past the government. Some features are locked out at speed, but others that should be aren't.

MDchanic

Comedic / sarcastic / provocative... All faces of the same beast.

I believe that the title alone stimulated and directed a good deal of the discussion (as compared to a neutral title), which looks like it was pretty much what you wanted it to do.

- Eric

joe_padavano

I do agree with that, however, as an example, smokers and the obese typically pay more for life insurance than those who are not, so in that case, life decisions do come with some measure of financial responsibility.

rustyroger

For those who have safety their #1 priority there are plenty of affordable cars offering safety light years ahead of a W30 442, or a '50s chrome'n'fins behemoth, or even an '89 H body.
For those who choose to drive an old car, we do it for its own sake, and accept the risk of not being as well protected as drivers of modern cars in the event of a collision.
But consider this: Over here and in North America classic car insurance is remarkably cheap compared to daily drivers. Why is this?, I think it's because mostly we drive them in a very risk averse manner, and well within the limitations of their older designs. Thus we have, as a group, fewer claims than average. Certainly we don't get good rates because the insurance companies have a soft spot for classic cars.

Having said that, no matter how safely we drive we have to share the highways with drunks, idiot yapping on their cellphones or texting, applying make up, shaving, or eating a bowl of cereal. So adding new seat belts, upgrading brakes and fitting quality tires will make your car safer, but if you want your car as it was back in the day then I have no quarrel with you.
Given the choice of a journey in my friends '59 Cadillac, with its marginal brakes, lack of seat belts, and steering column aimed at the drivers chest, or his modern Mercedes sedan with all the safety bells and whistles, which car do you think I'd choose?.

Roger.

70cutty

59 Cadillac

rustyroger

Hey!, are you psychic or something???.

Roger.

70-442-W30

Yes, a forum without discussion is nothing. Agreed. What exact title would you prefer? Faces of the same beast? Wow. That's a little harsh.

I've been a member of forums for a long time, even voted member of the year in a forum with over 50,000 active members. So maybe that's how I know how to compose "provocative" thread titles. If it doesn't stand out then it gets hardly discussion or responses at all in my experience. Maybe it is a little more plain vanilla around here. Don't really know yet.

As you said, freedom...that pertains to thread titles and seat belts.

Anyway, I'm leaving this weekend to go on a cruise. So I'll be thinking you you all back here while I'm catching some rays and going from island to island. It will be good to finally get this car in my garage soon and see where things take me.

Shine up those toys and keep it real. I'll chat when I get back.

MDchanic

Why so?

Are we speaking the same language?

- Eric

oldsguybry

I wouldn't worry about this any further . i was surprised to see there was still a discussion going on about this yet . When was the last time you were in a accident ? For me it's been about 20yrs so don't fret it . The first thing my kids do when they get in the car is buckle up . We drive the old car about a dozen or so times a year , and I don't drive it on the freeway . The car drives very smooth and straight ..... Now if I could just get the carb adjusted properly and get rid of the exhaust smell .

BlackGold

I've gotta disagree with you, Joe. Using your logic, we should all be wearing helmets while we drive our cars. Think about how much safer we would all be and how much lower our insurance premiums would be!!!

Smokers and the obese may pay more for life insurance, but generally not health insurance. Even though there's talk of it, we don't outlaw French fries or sugary drinks. Bottom line: society recognizes that personal freedom is more important than minimizing insurance premiums.
Except, for some strange reason, when it comes to seat belts.

(and yes, I always wear mine.)

lazy394

59 Caddy...or if one is not handy a 59 Olds, or 69 442 or (insert cool car here)


Scotty

oldsguybry

I love the car in your avatar lazy394

Fun71

I am behind the wheel a whole lot more than you are. I don't drive much during the summer when it's 110 as it is now, but during the fall/winter/spring I drive it all the time, often several times to work each week, and 35 miles each way on the highway to club meetings each month.

Driving the Cutlass on the highway these days isn't any different than it was back in the 80s when it was my only car and I went everywhere in it - road trips, vacations, camping trips, 60 highway miles each way to and from my first job. I particularly like highway driving because the car rides so well.

lazy394

Thanks for that, I am enjoying her no end!
Olds made truly great cars


Scotty

bigbog442

My grandmother bought a 442 every other year to street race in. She had the 66, 68, and the 70 before she stopped. The 1970 I now own. When she ordered it from Detroit she had them add shoulder belts to add with the lap Belts that came with it already. Trust me with those both connected in you don't move no where. Make sure you shut the door before strapping the shoulder belt or else you will have to unbuckle to shut the door.

oldsguybry

It's funny why I didn't think of this until now .... i have shoulder belts on my 72 CS , and it requires two different sized harnesses in order to get all buckled in . It has actually been a PITA to use so I don't . I will update with photo .

MDchanic

No she didn't.

Shoulder belts were required by Federal law in 1970.

Thanks for playing, though.

- Eric

oldsguybry

lol

Fun71

I had that style of belts in my 1970 Supreme but I thought by '72 they had changed to the style that used only one lower belt that had a keyhole slot for a tab on the shoulder belt.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...eat-belts.html


P1010549.jpg

P1010548.jpg

oldsguybry

That's weird , the belts on my car seem like they are original to the car but I wouldn't rule it out .

bigbog442

She bought the car in 69 for the 70 model she had them added in

MDchanic

Sorry again. Front passenger and driver shoulder belts were standard on all 1969 models (except convertibles) as well.

- Eric

joe_padavano

Just so we're all completely correct, federal law required shoulder belts on the outboard front passenger locations on EVERY car sold after Jan 1, 1968 except convertibles, so the car in question DEFINITELY came with shoulder belts from the factory. Rear seat shoulder belts and shoulder belts on convertibles were an available (though rare) factory option on these cars.

gs72

I remember riding in the back of my dad's truck with no restraints what so ever. Even on the freeway!!! And somehow I am still here to tell the tale. We run with scissors at my house, just for the thrill of it.

Fun71

You're crazy!

oldsguybry

I'm betting he doesn't run with scissors but he's just trying to make a point .