Rusty Boltz

Just curious if anyone here has an idea as to how many 1969 post top 442s came from the factory with a manual trans. I see less than 2,500 442 post tops total in 1969, so I am guessing that maybe 10-15% were stick cars. Anyone have a better idea of production numbers on these? Thanks

GAOldsman

Oldsmobile was terrible with keeping records such as this. So it is highly unlikely the records are out there. Kurt (wmachine) is the one that could tell you for sure, but I'm going to venture to say no. However the heavy duty 3-speed on the floor was standard for the 442 in '69 so chances are that the majority were manual trans.

Scot

Rickman48

I must disagree - 25% would be a lot!
Usually the first thing a salesman would offer, as you'd 'loose money' on a stick-shift trans - either 3 or 4-speed!
Back then, resale was everything! Muscle - car wasn't even a name!!

GAOldsman

Re-read my post. I stated the 3-speed HD floor shift was standard equipment. Yes the dealer would try to "sweeten" the pot so to say and being a drag racer at heart most that bought the 442 were buying it for performance. So yes still I think most would opt for the 4-speed, hence why I believe most were manual trans, whether it be a 3 or 4-speed.

GAOldsman

And if you wanted to upgrade to a 4-speed, it could have been had for less than $185. As to where if you opted for the TH400 auto you had to pony up over $225. Not to mention you automatically received the 350 hp 400 cube with a manual trans as compared to automatically receiving the 325 hp 400 cube with the auto trans.

Rusty Boltz

Well after owning 4 '69 442s and only one being a stick shift, it seems unrealistic to say that because a stick was standard equipment that almost all 442s were stick cars. I think most people who have owned these have seen that there are by far more automatics than sticks, but does anyone here have the info to make an educated guess?

wmachine

It wasn't that Oldsmobile was "terrible with keeping records". They had the records for many years. The question isn't why would they dump records, but why would they keep them when they no longer need them? And the are all kind of "production records", some exist, and some don't. One can't really generalize about this and get a clear picture.
Pontiac did not keep "production records" either. PHS is not part of Pontiac. What PHS has is copies of invoices. These were saved by some individuals at Pontiac at the time, and not something done *by* Pontiac.

The records for this particular question do exist. There is the breakdown of transmission by model by year for the '64-'72 442s.
Though the 3-speed manual was the base trans for the 442s of those years, it only amounted to 2-4% of the totals, so there were so few made that they never really figured into the stick vs. auto picture.
Through '66, the stick cars numbers far are greater than the autos. In '66, the 4-speeds were 60% of the total.
But that was easy to understand because until the Turbo 400 came out in '67 (for the A-bodies), the auto trans was not up to the task.
Things changed starting in '67 and never looked back. The autos, for the first time barely beat out the stick cars with *slightly* over 50% of the total. From there forward, the autos were the clear majority.
In '69, 63% were automatics.
There were 2984 post 442s (442 Sport Coupes) made in 1969.
272 3-spd manual (9%)
1267 4-spd (43%)
1445 auto (48%)

(FWIW, I have one of 87 '69 442 Convertibles with the 3-spd manual. 2%)

So the answer to the original post is: 1539, which is 52% of the post cars.

Rusty Boltz

Now that's what I am talking about! Great info! I knew I could get a reliable answer from the members here. Thanks for the breakdown and great information.

GAOldsman

I knew if anyone here could tell you for sure it would be Kurt. So 52% of the '69 sport coupes were stick shift which is what I figured, the majority.

Rusty Boltz

Well 52% is certainly more than I would have guessed as you just don't see them much, but I suppose these were the cars that had the tough life as in racing and general abuse. Now can someone tell me if there is a way to determine if a stick car originally came with a 3-speed or a 4-speed tranny when the original set-up is gone and no console to give a clue either?

wmachine

Easy to tell if it was a Lansing or Framingham built '65, '66, or '67. Other than that it would be much harder to tell. The hole in the floor should be slightly different. I don't know exactly what the differences are, as far as being able to tell one from the other, nor do I know anyone who does know.

Rickman48

I still enjoy learning something new everyday!!
Guess I was wrong!

wmachine

However you were right that "musclecars" was not even a term back then. Generally they were called Supercars. But resale value was not a concern of that segment of the market. If you want to know what Oldsmobile was thinking at the the time, there is a piece on Wild About Cars that gives some rare insight into Oldsmobile's view of the Performance car market in 1969.
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...aldisplayed=26

Rusty Boltz

I figured that would be a long shot, but it is a Lansing car with minimal options and a bench seat. Thanks for your help all.

Yellowstatue

If it was an Oshawa built car, the tranny type is on the cowl tag...