Engine swap to modern olds engine
January 3rd, 2011, 07:39 PM
#1
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Location: Orange County, CA
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Engine swap to modern olds engine
I have a 55 with the stock 324 and I am considering a swap to a modern olds engine, something modest like a 350. The plan would be to store the original 324 for posterity's sake, and to invest in rebuilding it over time because it is going to be very expensive with a lot of leg work.
I have searched and reviewed other threads about said swap, especially citcapp's 57 swap. I am very aware of the difference in the way the two different engines mount. However that seems to be the detail that is most neglected in a lot of these threads.
I could not get a clear answer if any permanent modification to the frame to add the motor mounts was necessary (ie. welding to the frame) as this would be a deal breaker with the intention of putting the 324 back in some day. There were several references to "making the motor mounts", but what did it involve?
The 324 has a lot of charm I wouldn't like to permanently remove from the vehicle. Any clarification from someone who knows more or better would be appreciated.
I have searched and reviewed other threads about said swap, especially citcapp's 57 swap. I am very aware of the difference in the way the two different engines mount. However that seems to be the detail that is most neglected in a lot of these threads.
I could not get a clear answer if any permanent modification to the frame to add the motor mounts was necessary (ie. welding to the frame) as this would be a deal breaker with the intention of putting the 324 back in some day. There were several references to "making the motor mounts", but what did it involve?
The 324 has a lot of charm I wouldn't like to permanently remove from the vehicle. Any clarification from someone who knows more or better would be appreciated.
January 4th, 2011, 10:28 AM
#4
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,841
You may be able to use/modify the early Toronado front engine mount bracket, and then make up ears going from the bellhousing bolts to the sides. You should find some other bolts to reinforce the ears so they can't wiggle (triangulate their mounting to the engine). Otherwise, investigate adding a tranny crossmember and brackets to the frame like later cars did.
If this is a temporary change, it probably won't be worth the effort, and you will get upset if you have to modify the car to accept the engine. Inevitably there will be some things like that.
If this is a temporary change, it probably won't be worth the effort, and you will get upset if you have to modify the car to accept the engine. Inevitably there will be some things like that.
January 4th, 2011, 02:27 PM
#5
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9
oil pan 324
Does anyone know where I can find a 324 oil pan for my 56? The engine has just received a major overhaul and cannot run until I find a good oil pan. The one I have is full of pin holes and cannot be economically repaired. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
January 4th, 2011, 03:41 PM
#6
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 14
I recently swapped the 324 in my 55 for a 403. The motor mounts I made are welded to the front crossmember. I consider them permanent but they could be removed with a torch pretty quickly. My 324 was seized up with rust so I have no plans to put it back in.
If your car has power steering then you will have bigger concerns than the motor mounts. The original p/s box is huge and I could find no way to fit a newer engine in beside it. I ended up swapping the original box for a newer style 605 box. This was alot of work and required quite a bit of cutting and welding on the frame. But I gained enough clearance for the 403.
I unbolted the existing transmission crossmember and welded in a square tube for the crossmember to accept the turbo 350 trans.
I wouldn't modify one like I did if I thought I might want to go back to the original engine. Too much work.
If your car has power steering then you will have bigger concerns than the motor mounts. The original p/s box is huge and I could find no way to fit a newer engine in beside it. I ended up swapping the original box for a newer style 605 box. This was alot of work and required quite a bit of cutting and welding on the frame. But I gained enough clearance for the 403.
I unbolted the existing transmission crossmember and welded in a square tube for the crossmember to accept the turbo 350 trans.
I wouldn't modify one like I did if I thought I might want to go back to the original engine. Too much work.
January 4th, 2011, 05:14 PM
#8
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January 5th, 2011, 01:10 AM
#10
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Location: Orange County, CA
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I
If your car has power steering then you will have bigger concerns than the motor mounts. The original p/s box is huge and I could find no way to fit a newer engine in beside it. I ended up swapping the original box for a newer style 605 box. This was alot of work and required quite a bit of cutting and welding on the frame. But I gained enough clearance for the 403.
If your car has power steering then you will have bigger concerns than the motor mounts. The original p/s box is huge and I could find no way to fit a newer engine in beside it. I ended up swapping the original box for a newer style 605 box. This was alot of work and required quite a bit of cutting and welding on the frame. But I gained enough clearance for the 403.
Some minor modification to the frame is no big deal. The car is stock under the hood now but honestly I do plan on running disc brakes eventually so I'm not going for a bone stock vibe anyway but permanently removing the 324 is hard to swallow yet...
However I'm sure all it would take is a ride in one of your cars with the 2nd gen. engines to convince me to tear that thing out that very evening
January 5th, 2011, 04:40 PM
#11
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 14
I have read a little bit about this conversation, what was involved? It is something I planned to do soon to get a quicker ratio box in there. It was mentioned that the bolt holes lined up, but that there was a bulge in the frame that needed manipulating to fit the modern box? And a spacer for the rag joint but that doesn't sound too hard to furnish.
Some minor modification to the frame is no big deal. The car is stock under the hood now but honestly I do plan on running disc brakes eventually so I'm not going for a bone stock vibe anyway but permanently removing the 324 is hard to swallow yet...
However I'm sure all it would take is a ride in one of your cars with the 2nd gen. engines to convince me to tear that thing out that very evening
Some minor modification to the frame is no big deal. The car is stock under the hood now but honestly I do plan on running disc brakes eventually so I'm not going for a bone stock vibe anyway but permanently removing the 324 is hard to swallow yet...
However I'm sure all it would take is a ride in one of your cars with the 2nd gen. engines to convince me to tear that thing out that very evening
I struggled with the decision to abandon the 324 also. Mine was in very bad shape but could possibly have been saved with a lot of work. I stumbled across a good deal on a 403 and decided to go for it.
The steering box conversion took more work than I initially expected. The mounting holes did not line up and the box ends up too far to the passenger side if the frame is not modified to set it "into" the frame. The 605 box accepts the original pitman arm, most other GM boxes wont. I ended up welding a 1/4" plate on the outside of the frame, cutting a large section of the inner frame rail out and insetting another 1/4" plate approximately 1.5 inches inside the rail. Finally i boxed around the inset plate to tie it all together. Once this was done, I mounted the pitman arm onto the new box and connected it to the draglink. I moved the new box around until the draglink was back in it's original location and marked for my new mounting holes. (I had made measurements of where the draglink should be when connected to the original box before I took it apart.) This kept my steering geometry all original.
My car didn't have a ragjoint to disconnect the steering box from the column. The steering shaft was solid from the steering wheel to the box. I ended up cutting the shaft off of the old box and adding a ragjoint to the end of it to attach it to the new box. This also required adding a bearing at the bottom of the steering column to support the shaft inside the column. I'm going with a floor shifter so I hacked off most of the bottom end of the column and got rid of all of the shift linkage.
I have test fit my engine and have just enough clearance around the steering box for a stock exhaust manifold. I don't think there is any way to get a header in there though.
Here's a couple pics:
March10033.jpg
The original steering box.
New "605" box. The inset plate is red. Boxing it in and finish welding are not done yet.
As far as taking a ride in my car..........it'll be a while yet. I'm currently deciding whether to keep the original rear end or go with a 8.5" posi.
January 5th, 2011, 08:22 PM
#12
1956 holiday coupe
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hialeah, Fl
Posts: 528
I struggled with the decision to abandon the 324 also. Mine was in very bad shape but could possibly have been saved with a lot of work. I stumbled across a good deal on a 403 and decided to go for it.
The steering box conversion took more work than I initially expected. The mounting holes did not line up and the box ends up too far to the passenger side if the frame is not modified to set it "into" the frame. The 605 box accepts the original pitman arm, most other GM boxes wont. I ended up welding a 1/4" plate on the outside of the frame, cutting a large section of the inner frame rail out and insetting another 1/4" plate approximately 1.5 inches inside the rail. Finally i boxed around the inset plate to tie it all together. Once this was done, I mounted the pitman arm onto the new box and connected it to the draglink. I moved the new box around until the draglink was back in it's original location and marked for my new mounting holes. (I had made measurements of where the draglink should be when connected to the original box before I took it apart.) This kept my steering geometry all original.
My car didn't have a ragjoint to disconnect the steering box from the column. The steering shaft was solid from the steering wheel to the box. I ended up cutting the shaft off of the old box and adding a ragjoint to the end of it to attach it to the new box. This also required adding a bearing at the bottom of the steering column to support the shaft inside the column. I'm going with a floor shifter so I hacked off most of the bottom end of the column and got rid of all of the shift linkage.
I have test fit my engine and have just enough clearance around the steering box for a stock exhaust manifold. I don't think there is any way to get a header in there though.
Here's a couple pics:
The original steering box.
New "605" box. The inset plate is red. Boxing it in and finish welding are not done yet.
As far as taking a ride in my car..........it'll be a while yet. I'm currently deciding whether to keep the original rear end or go with a 8.5" posi.
The steering box conversion took more work than I initially expected. The mounting holes did not line up and the box ends up too far to the passenger side if the frame is not modified to set it "into" the frame. The 605 box accepts the original pitman arm, most other GM boxes wont. I ended up welding a 1/4" plate on the outside of the frame, cutting a large section of the inner frame rail out and insetting another 1/4" plate approximately 1.5 inches inside the rail. Finally i boxed around the inset plate to tie it all together. Once this was done, I mounted the pitman arm onto the new box and connected it to the draglink. I moved the new box around until the draglink was back in it's original location and marked for my new mounting holes. (I had made measurements of where the draglink should be when connected to the original box before I took it apart.) This kept my steering geometry all original.
My car didn't have a ragjoint to disconnect the steering box from the column. The steering shaft was solid from the steering wheel to the box. I ended up cutting the shaft off of the old box and adding a ragjoint to the end of it to attach it to the new box. This also required adding a bearing at the bottom of the steering column to support the shaft inside the column. I'm going with a floor shifter so I hacked off most of the bottom end of the column and got rid of all of the shift linkage.
I have test fit my engine and have just enough clearance around the steering box for a stock exhaust manifold. I don't think there is any way to get a header in there though.
Here's a couple pics:
The original steering box.
New "605" box. The inset plate is red. Boxing it in and finish welding are not done yet.
As far as taking a ride in my car..........it'll be a while yet. I'm currently deciding whether to keep the original rear end or go with a 8.5" posi.
January 5th, 2011, 08:29 PM
#13
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Winnipeg,MB
Posts: 20
hi,
a buddy of mine swapped his '55 for a newer chevy350 with a th 700.since he's not going back to the old 324 he fabricated new engine sidemounts and a tranny cross member.there is no room for headers with the power steering.the driveshaft length was ok but needed the front yoke changed.all in all it was done in a day.he is very happy with his new engine..
a buddy of mine swapped his '55 for a newer chevy350 with a th 700.since he's not going back to the old 324 he fabricated new engine sidemounts and a tranny cross member.there is no room for headers with the power steering.the driveshaft length was ok but needed the front yoke changed.all in all it was done in a day.he is very happy with his new engine..
January 5th, 2011, 08:33 PM
#14
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Posts: 14
January 6th, 2011, 04:32 PM
#15
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rathdrum, Idano
Posts: 9,127
You can do the swap without modifying the steering box. Its not that tough and I have made detailed CADD drawings of the motor mounts and frame mods required. If you PM me your e-mail I will be happy to send you the details. I Installed a 455 using W/Z manifolds. and went to a single piece drive line in my swap
January 6th, 2011, 05:06 PM
#16
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Posts: 14
You can do the swap without modifying the steering box. Its not that tough and I have made detailed CADD drawings of the motor mounts and frame mods required. If you PM me your e-mail I will be happy to send you the details. I Installed a 455 using W/Z manifolds. and went to a single piece drive line in my swap
I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but I couldn't figure it out.
January 6th, 2011, 07:02 PM
#17
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Location: Rathdrum, Idano
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You build the motor mounts off of the front cross member. not of the side frame rails. You box is larger and I could be wrong in this regard I know it clears a 56 box. I'll have to look at this on a friends 55 and see the difference. Don't want to give out bad info
January 7th, 2011, 08:15 AM
#18
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Ranch Ca.
Posts: 7,714
options
If you can live with the slow stock steering box a 394 is a easy quick no hassle conversion. Your 55 transmission if in good shape will live with the power of the 394. Motor mounts need no changing, stock exhaust should work, although a little small for that size engine and you'll have as much power as anyone would want with out going crazy. The kick down linkage may be a little problem and a pilot hole will have to be drilled in the crank to except the 55,s transmission. Other than that every thing else should be a direct bolt in.On the down side good used 394's are getting harder to find and the cost of a rebuild is expensive on that model.
I hate to see you cut your car up as they hardly ever get put back together once altered. But it's your car and do what makes you the happiest....Tedd
I hate to see you cut your car up as they hardly ever get put back together once altered. But it's your car and do what makes you the happiest....Tedd
January 14th, 2011, 10:10 PM
#19
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Thanks for the good info guys the car is very driveable as it is so we'll see where it goes in time... If I came across a good 394 core I would probably jump on that for ease of installation.The parts are expensive... But what hobby isn't right? It'll just slow the process down or force me to sell something I don't need... like that pesky daily driver.
There is some good information on the swap here http://webpages.charter.net/dhomstad...me1Source1.htm
Good job on the photos for the 605 box conversion. I am a very visual learner so they really helped make it all click. Pure gold.
I'll keep weighing my options. A lot of the class has been stripped from the car on the body... All of the emblems, door handles, and ornaments have been shaved by the prior owner so the engine is almost all it has left. As I put them back on I might not feel so guilty though so I'll keep you all posted on the developments.
Thanks again for all the good info.
There is some good information on the swap here http://webpages.charter.net/dhomstad...me1Source1.htm
Good job on the photos for the 605 box conversion. I am a very visual learner so they really helped make it all click. Pure gold.
I'll keep weighing my options. A lot of the class has been stripped from the car on the body... All of the emblems, door handles, and ornaments have been shaved by the prior owner so the engine is almost all it has left. As I put them back on I might not feel so guilty though so I'll keep you all posted on the developments.
Thanks again for all the good info.
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