My first drive in the 53
July 8th, 2016, 05:55 PM
#1
My first drive in the 53
Got my new plates, finished the exhaust and took her out...it was a first for me driving an early 50's car, and a first for the Olds driving on English roads.
She pulls to the left so the alignment is off...but more worryingly is that my oil pressure is low, on start up it's above half way, when it warms up and driving it's sitting around the quarter mark, then drops to just above zero at idle.
She pulls to the left so the alignment is off...but more worryingly is that my oil pressure is low, on start up it's above half way, when it warms up and driving it's sitting around the quarter mark, then drops to just above zero at idle.
July 8th, 2016, 06:11 PM
#3
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
Nice!
I'm afraid I can't say much about oil pressure in that series engine, but that would be a bit low in the newer series (I'd expect 30-40psi while driving).
One forgets how neat and tidy the roads look over there. Almost like California...
- Eric
I'm afraid I can't say much about oil pressure in that series engine, but that would be a bit low in the newer series (I'd expect 30-40psi while driving).
One forgets how neat and tidy the roads look over there. Almost like California...
- Eric
July 8th, 2016, 06:45 PM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Ranch Ca.
Posts: 7,717
Have you tried a new temporary oil pressure gauge just to confirm the true pressure? Anything around the 0 mark is a concern. Do you get any lifter clatter on startup on a warm engine?..... Tedd
PS. congrats on getting it back on the road.
PS. congrats on getting it back on the road.
July 8th, 2016, 07:21 PM
#6
Proud Viet Nam Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Rowlett, TX
Posts: 9,945
If your gauge is correct, I am afraid you do have an oil pressure problem. My 54 which God only knows when it was rebuilt, runs 40 psi out on the highway even after it warms up. At idle it is probably about 20 psi. My gauge may be off the other way but I am okay with it. Now if I can just get the dadgum thing to run cooler. I would try what Tedd and Eric suggested. Just get a cheap gauge and try it. Good luck.
July 9th, 2016, 02:47 AM
#8
If your gauge is correct, I am afraid you do have an oil pressure problem. My 54 which God only knows when it was rebuilt, runs 40 psi out on the highway even after it warms up. At idle it is probably about 20 psi. My gauge may be off the other way but I am okay with it. Now if I can just get the dadgum thing to run cooler. I would try what Tedd and Eric suggested. Just get a cheap gauge and try it. Good luck.
Thanks Don, me too, definitely no noise from the valvetrain or engine in general...I wondered if the oil I was using was to thin, but 15w-40 is a high viscosity. but maybe thats an issue when it gets hot.
Last edited by Eightbanger; July 9th, 2016 at 03:08 AM.
July 9th, 2016, 04:17 AM
#9
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
And 10W40, 15W40, or 20W50 should be fine in the warm weather.
Do pick up a mechanical gauge, though, and confirm readings with that.
- Eric
July 9th, 2016, 05:29 AM
#10
God I hope none of the above Eric, accept for the oil pump, thats an easy fix...I've been scouring the shop manual and cant find anything on the oil pressure gauge or where the oil pressure line connects to the engine.
July 9th, 2016, 07:40 AM
#11
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,393
Nigel, the inside of your oil pressure sender unit is probably "full of crud" just like the whole inside of your engine was before you did such a neat job of getting it all cleaned out.If that is the case ,maybe you can remove it and spray carb cleaner or penetrating oil and blow it out and be very lucky that it will solve your oil pressure problem! I"ll keep my fingers crossed and I am very confident that that is where your trouble is. Best of luck ,your friend Larry
July 9th, 2016, 08:06 AM
#12
Proud Viet Nam Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Rowlett, TX
Posts: 9,945
Your oil pressure line connect on the right side of your engine behind the cylinder head. Unfortunately it is not easy to get to and impossible to even see. I have a pressure switch I was going to add to my 54 for a cutoff on the electric fuel pump. I have looked at it several times and wound up putting it back on the shelf both times because I feared breaking a line or cross threading something. Then I would probably have to pull the engine to fix it. Maybe you have better access on your car. The line that goes to the gauge is very small and you can trace it across the firewall. There is no actual sending unit since this is a mechanical gauge.
July 9th, 2016, 09:36 AM
#13
Nigel, the inside of your oil pressure sender unit is probably "full of crud" just like the whole inside of your engine was before you did such a neat job of getting it all cleaned out.If that is the case ,maybe you can remove it and spray carb cleaner or penetrating oil and blow it out and be very lucky that it will solve your oil pressure problem! I"ll keep my fingers crossed and I am very confident that that is where your trouble is. Best of luck ,your friend Larry
Hope all's well with you my friend.
Your oil pressure line connect on the right side of your engine behind the cylinder head. Unfortunately it is not easy to get to and impossible to even see. I have a pressure switch I was going to add to my 54 for a cutoff on the electric fuel pump. I have looked at it several times and wound up putting it back on the shelf both times because I feared breaking a line or cross threading something. Then I would probably have to pull the engine to fix it. Maybe you have better access on your car. The line that goes to the gauge is very small and you can trace it across the firewall. There is no actual sending unit since this is a mechanical gauge.
Well I took her out for quite a long run, the traffic was a bit heavy, which showed she's also running hot, and there is some sort of drain on the battery or perhaps not charging, as the amp gauge was dropping, nearly wouldn't start after putting Petrol.....and the oil gauge nearly on zero, so it would seem I have a lot more work to do before she's right.
July 9th, 2016, 09:42 AM
#14
Proud Viet Nam Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Rowlett, TX
Posts: 9,945
Nigel:
If you buy an after market gauge, it will come with its own like which is usually Teflon. I doubt the fitting on the back of the cash gauge would fit an aftermarket gauge anyway. So all you should be concerned with is where it connects to the block. It takes a lot to get these old cars up to where you can take them out for a pleasure cruise. You have had your shakedown cruise and that is a big thing. I am three years into mine and am still working on the cooling system.
If you buy an after market gauge, it will come with its own like which is usually Teflon. I doubt the fitting on the back of the cash gauge would fit an aftermarket gauge anyway. So all you should be concerned with is where it connects to the block. It takes a lot to get these old cars up to where you can take them out for a pleasure cruise. You have had your shakedown cruise and that is a big thing. I am three years into mine and am still working on the cooling system.
July 9th, 2016, 10:22 AM
#15
Nigel:
If you buy an after market gauge, it will come with its own like which is usually Teflon. I doubt the fitting on the back of the cash gauge would fit an aftermarket gauge anyway. So all you should be concerned with is where it connects to the block. It takes a lot to get these old cars up to where you can take them out for a pleasure cruise. You have had your shakedown cruise and that is a big thing. I am three years into mine and am still working on the cooling system.
If you buy an after market gauge, it will come with its own like which is usually Teflon. I doubt the fitting on the back of the cash gauge would fit an aftermarket gauge anyway. So all you should be concerned with is where it connects to the block. It takes a lot to get these old cars up to where you can take them out for a pleasure cruise. You have had your shakedown cruise and that is a big thing. I am three years into mine and am still working on the cooling system.
Now I understand, thanks Red.
So what's going on with yours, do you think some of the water channels are blocked? I found quite a few on mine that had closed altogether and others restricted with like a calcium build up.
July 9th, 2016, 10:46 AM
#16
Proud Viet Nam Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Rowlett, TX
Posts: 9,945
I am puzzled. It didn't run hot until I started putting the AC in. I know it is moving enough air across the radiator. The heads were rebuilt about 2500 miles ago. I have spent a lot trying to cool this car down.
July 10th, 2016, 12:24 AM
#18
74 2.8L Capri
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Napa, CA
Posts: 358
Oil pressure, at idle after warm, I'm getting about 15-20 psi. About 30 anything above idle. Running 10W-40 in sunny warm CA, with 1 quart of Rislone. Heads have not been done and are original, soft valve seats which means only a matter of time for a rebuild. 137K miles.
One concession to modern equipment, I've installed a radiator recovery tank. That helped a lot. With out it, I'd lose a bit of fluid every time I drove it, necessitating a refill every other gas tank full. With the recovery tank, I don't have to top it off, it stays full, and it does run cooler since it's not circulating air in with the fluid. That made a big difference for me.
I have had a sticky thermostat. That will also cause some of your symptoms. That's easy and worth a shot. You can also see how bad any buildup is while you have it out, if you go that way.
That valve train does look pretty dry...
July 10th, 2016, 07:04 AM
#19
At least the '55 324 runs very cool. In fact, I can't get it hot. No AC, no power steering, no power brakes. Stop and go traffic, the temp never budges above 1/2.
Oil pressure, at idle after warm, I'm getting about 15-20 psi. About 30 anything above idle. Running 10W-40 in sunny warm CA, with 1 quart of Rislone. Heads have not been done and are original, soft valve seats which means only a matter of time for a rebuild. 137K miles.
One concession to modern equipment, I've installed a radiator recovery tank. That helped a lot. With out it, I'd lose a bit of fluid every time I drove it, necessitating a refill every other gas tank full. With the recovery tank, I don't have to top it off, it stays full, and it does run cooler since it's not circulating air in with the fluid. That made a big difference for me.
I have had a sticky thermostat. That will also cause some of your symptoms. That's easy and worth a shot. You can also see how bad any buildup is while you have it out, if you go that way.
That valve train does look pretty dry...
Oil pressure, at idle after warm, I'm getting about 15-20 psi. About 30 anything above idle. Running 10W-40 in sunny warm CA, with 1 quart of Rislone. Heads have not been done and are original, soft valve seats which means only a matter of time for a rebuild. 137K miles.
One concession to modern equipment, I've installed a radiator recovery tank. That helped a lot. With out it, I'd lose a bit of fluid every time I drove it, necessitating a refill every other gas tank full. With the recovery tank, I don't have to top it off, it stays full, and it does run cooler since it's not circulating air in with the fluid. That made a big difference for me.
I have had a sticky thermostat. That will also cause some of your symptoms. That's easy and worth a shot. You can also see how bad any buildup is while you have it out, if you go that way.
That valve train does look pretty dry...
Yeah, unhappy about the lack of oil on the VT.
But now the battery is flat, it's brand new, but it isn't charging whilst its running, in fact, the Amp meter reads just below the halfway mark all the time, it never seems to read above halfway, which I thought it would do when driving to show that it's charging, as soon as I use the radio,fan or turn the lights on the Amp meter drops much lower, and it barely turns over should you stop for any reason.
Going to look on Google to see how to check for a faulty Alternator.
July 10th, 2016, 07:58 AM
#20
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
This ammeter definitely shows a discharge, instead of charging.
It should never show that with the engine running, except at idle with accessories and headlights on.
Note that you DO NOT have an alternator, you have a generator.
You need to do the basic troubleshooting to determine whether the problem is with the generator or the regulator, and work from there.
Here is a diagram of your charging circuit:
The problem could be as simple as a bad ground to the generator or the regulator, or bad brushes in the generator.
The simplest test is to connect the BAT terminal to the FIELD terminal of the regulator for a moment, with the engine running and a voltmeter across the battery terminals (you could also watch the ammeter in the car, ASSuming it works).
Connecting the (+) battery terminal to the F terminal of the generator and measuring the voltage between the A(rmature) terminal of the generator and ground will accomplish the same thing.
When you "Hot Field" the generator, it should go to its maximum output, the voltmeter should read about 15V, and the ammeter should get very close to the +30.
If it does, you know that your generator is good, and the problem is in the regulator.
Conversely...
I have uploaded for you a copy of the Electrical chapter of the 1955 Pontiac Shop Manual, which should be essentially identical to the chapter for your car ('53 guys, please let Nigel know if there are any significant differences).
It will take you through everything you need to know and do.
Also, I'm not a 324 guy, but that valve train looks like it's gotten NO oil after that long drive.
Beware.
Good luck!
- Eric
It should never show that with the engine running, except at idle with accessories and headlights on.
Note that you DO NOT have an alternator, you have a generator.
You need to do the basic troubleshooting to determine whether the problem is with the generator or the regulator, and work from there.
Here is a diagram of your charging circuit:
The problem could be as simple as a bad ground to the generator or the regulator, or bad brushes in the generator.
The simplest test is to connect the BAT terminal to the FIELD terminal of the regulator for a moment, with the engine running and a voltmeter across the battery terminals (you could also watch the ammeter in the car, ASSuming it works).
Connecting the (+) battery terminal to the F terminal of the generator and measuring the voltage between the A(rmature) terminal of the generator and ground will accomplish the same thing.
When you "Hot Field" the generator, it should go to its maximum output, the voltmeter should read about 15V, and the ammeter should get very close to the +30.
If it does, you know that your generator is good, and the problem is in the regulator.
Conversely...
I have uploaded for you a copy of the Electrical chapter of the 1955 Pontiac Shop Manual, which should be essentially identical to the chapter for your car ('53 guys, please let Nigel know if there are any significant differences).
It will take you through everything you need to know and do.
Also, I'm not a 324 guy, but that valve train looks like it's gotten NO oil after that long drive.
Beware.
Good luck!
- Eric
July 10th, 2016, 09:27 AM
#22
This ammeter definitely shows a discharge, instead of charging.
It should never show that with the engine running, except at idle with accessories and headlights on.
Note that you DO NOT have an alternator, you have a generator.
You need to do the basic troubleshooting to determine whether the problem is with the generator or the regulator, and work from there.
Here is a diagram of your charging circuit:
The problem could be as simple as a bad ground to the generator or the regulator, or bad brushes in the generator.
The simplest test is to connect the BAT terminal to the FIELD terminal of the regulator for a moment, with the engine running and a voltmeter across the battery terminals (you could also watch the ammeter in the car, ASSuming it works).
Connecting the (+) battery terminal to the F terminal of the generator and measuring the voltage between the A(rmature) terminal of the generator and ground will accomplish the same thing.
When you "Hot Field" the generator, it should go to its maximum output, the voltmeter should read about 15V, and the ammeter should get very close to the +30.
If it does, you know that your generator is good, and the problem is in the regulator.
Conversely...
I have uploaded for you a copy of the Electrical chapter of the 1955 Pontiac Shop Manual, which should be essentially identical to the chapter for your car ('53 guys, please let Nigel know if there are any significant differences).
It will take you through everything you need to know and do.
Also, I'm not a 324 guy, but that valve train looks like it's gotten NO oil after that long drive.
Beware.
Good luck!
- Eric
It should never show that with the engine running, except at idle with accessories and headlights on.
Note that you DO NOT have an alternator, you have a generator.
You need to do the basic troubleshooting to determine whether the problem is with the generator or the regulator, and work from there.
Here is a diagram of your charging circuit:
The problem could be as simple as a bad ground to the generator or the regulator, or bad brushes in the generator.
The simplest test is to connect the BAT terminal to the FIELD terminal of the regulator for a moment, with the engine running and a voltmeter across the battery terminals (you could also watch the ammeter in the car, ASSuming it works).
Connecting the (+) battery terminal to the F terminal of the generator and measuring the voltage between the A(rmature) terminal of the generator and ground will accomplish the same thing.
When you "Hot Field" the generator, it should go to its maximum output, the voltmeter should read about 15V, and the ammeter should get very close to the +30.
If it does, you know that your generator is good, and the problem is in the regulator.
Conversely...
I have uploaded for you a copy of the Electrical chapter of the 1955 Pontiac Shop Manual, which should be essentially identical to the chapter for your car ('53 guys, please let Nigel know if there are any significant differences).
It will take you through everything you need to know and do.
Also, I'm not a 324 guy, but that valve train looks like it's gotten NO oil after that long drive.
Beware.
Good luck!
- Eric
I will start a new thread in Electrical to discuss this further, but for now can you tell me what my multimeter is reading off the Generator? it shows 0.12 with the engine running.
Before I put the covers back on yesterday I drenched the lot in fresh oil again.
Last edited by Eightbanger; July 10th, 2016 at 09:58 AM.
July 10th, 2016, 10:30 AM
#23
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
In a country where Lucas electrics are considered normal, what else could we expect?
If my terminal identification is correct, your meter is showing 0.12VDC between the generator Field terminal and ground.
If that is the case, the culprit is likely the regulator.
Next step it to connect (+)12V to that terminal (Field) and see whether the car charges.
Once again, I don't know the 324, but I believe he's asking because it is possible to reassemble it wrong and block the oil passages.
- Eric
If my terminal identification is correct, your meter is showing 0.12VDC between the generator Field terminal and ground.
If that is the case, the culprit is likely the regulator.
Next step it to connect (+)12V to that terminal (Field) and see whether the car charges.
Once again, I don't know the 324, but I believe he's asking because it is possible to reassemble it wrong and block the oil passages.
- Eric
July 10th, 2016, 11:30 AM
#24
Proud Viet Nam Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Rowlett, TX
Posts: 9,945
Be sure you reassembled with the holes on the shafts turned down. The shop manual does not say anything about this. I assembled mine with the holes up and kept having trouble. Tony at Ross Racing told me they went down. I bought a pre-assembled set of rocker arms from him at that point and have had no more problems. As you probably know, the oil comes up through the head and through one of the rocker shaft stands. Be sure you have these in the right places or you will not get any oil. This is not going to affect you low oil pressure though.
July 10th, 2016, 12:04 PM
#25
Be sure you reassembled with the holes on the shafts turned down. The shop manual does not say anything about this. I assembled mine with the holes up and kept having trouble. Tony at Ross Racing told me they went down. I bought a pre-assembled set of rocker arms from him at that point and have had no more problems. As you probably know, the oil comes up through the head and through one of the rocker shaft stands. Be sure you have these in the right places or you will not get any oil. This is not going to affect you low oil pressure though.
July 10th, 2016, 04:48 PM
#28
July 11th, 2016, 08:49 AM
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Ranch Ca.
Posts: 7,717
Topping off your oil unless (it was very low) shouldn't make a difference in oil pressure. As far as the upper valve system not getting oil if this is a new problem there is a chance that the wrong head gasket could have been used. Later year gaskets will bolt up to the head but the oil passages from block to head are different. I know hotroders always matched gaskets to head when mix matching later heads to early blocks. Probably not your problem but something to add to the list of things to check out. The reason I threw this into the mix is If your oil pressure is hovering around the 0 mark I would think the lifters would start to clatter on a extended drive.No oil getting past the gasket but enough to keep the lifters pressurized.
If it were mine I would pull the pan and plastic gauge the mains and rods and check the tolerances. You will have to pull the pan anyway if the oil pump is bad.... Just my thoughts. Best of luck.... Tedd
If it were mine I would pull the pan and plastic gauge the mains and rods and check the tolerances. You will have to pull the pan anyway if the oil pump is bad.... Just my thoughts. Best of luck.... Tedd
Last edited by Tedd Thompson; July 11th, 2016 at 08:53 AM.
July 11th, 2016, 03:03 PM
#31
Topping off your oil unless (it was very low) shouldn't make a difference in oil pressure. As far as the upper valve system not getting oil if this is a new problem there is a chance that the wrong head gasket could have been used. Later year gaskets will bolt up to the head but the oil passages from block to head are different. I know hotroders always matched gaskets to head when mix matching later heads to early blocks. Probably not your problem but something to add to the list of things to check out. The reason I threw this into the mix is If your oil pressure is hovering around the 0 mark I would think the lifters would start to clatter on a extended drive.No oil getting past the gasket but enough to keep the lifters pressurized.
If it were mine I would pull the pan and plastic gauge the mains and rods and check the tolerances. You will have to pull the pan anyway if the oil pump is bad.... Just my thoughts. Best of luck.... Tedd
If it were mine I would pull the pan and plastic gauge the mains and rods and check the tolerances. You will have to pull the pan anyway if the oil pump is bad.... Just my thoughts. Best of luck.... Tedd
I will order a new Oil Pump and have a close look as you suggest when I drop the pan...thank you mate.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Murco
Transmission
10
July 15th, 2013 08:45 PM
Tedd Thompson
General Discussion
59
March 16th, 2012 01:34 PM
