James Colvin

Hey Guys I have a 71 Cutlass S with a 350and I've swapped the original trans with a 200r4

I found a 2004r core that I took to a Transmission shop and had it rebuilt. It bolted right in with no issues. I found all the info here to install it. Had the Transmission Guy set up the tv cable to the throttle ( had to buy a adjustable bracket from a local performance shop to hook it up to the carb as the original cable that ran from my 350 turbo went to the gas pedal) also put in a vacuum switch that he wired to 4th gear for the lock up. Also put in a new torque converter that they use on the Grand National.
Transmission seemed to shift too soon 3000 rpm at wot, even when you were putting your foot to it also it wouldn't kick down.
So I started reading about the kit from CK Performance CUSTOM STREET/STRIP VALVE BODY, GOVERNOR AND SERVO PACKAGE #24RVB/SSK

Had the guy put it in, on the test drive it slipped in 2nd gear and had to come out and get fixed. Trans Guy says it was the servo and it was too tight even though it was air tested. Spoke with Chris at PK and he sent me another one no problem. Put the new one in and it seemed alright but the problem of shifting too soon is still there it almost feels like the torque converter is locked in every gear. Spoke with Chris again and he's asking what the line pressure is he said it should be 240psi minimum
Had the pressure tested by the Trans Guy here's what he gave me.
He said he did it at idle, I'm not sure if it was done right?
Park 60 psi
Rev 130 psi
Neutral 60 psi
O/D 60 psi
3rd 60 psi
2nd 60 psi
1st 60 psi
I still have to Call Chris again to see what he says.

Car works great shifting manually up thru the gears I get a really firm shift from 1st to second and it squawks real good and 2nd to 3rd get a firm shift and a small squawk too!
Any input would be great.
Thanks in advance.

TexasT

I don't think you have the tv cable adjusted but it is hard to tell over the internet. Those pressures look low to me but I don't know what you have for boost valves.
When you pull the tv cable the pressure should jump instantly. With the car idling and your pressure gauge installed, disconnect the cable from the carb and pull the cable out. The pressure should jump. You will need a helper to do this for each gear. these pressures will tell the story. Sounds like your guy had the band adjusted too tight first time around. But again hard to diagnose over the interwebz.
Let us know.

James Colvin

Right now the when the throttle is pulled wide open the TV cable is at the end of its travel. I'm taking it back to the Trans guy this week and I will ask him to check pressuse again Thanks Texas.

TexasT

The travel up top isn't near as important as the plunger in the pan that actuated the valve. Check with the pan off to see if the tv valve in the vb is fully depressed when you are at wot at the carb.

James Colvin

Thanks will check that and let you know

jag1886

That TV cable is tricky it has to have the right length of stroke to make it work right. That's why the good TV kits have a rather elaborate hook up to space it the right amount from the throttle shaft, you should try BowtieOverdive for the kit, there stuff works perfect . As far as that lock up converter, your problem is why I advise everyone to convert to a non-lockup converter, those things came be a total PITA to get working right. That lock-up is only worth about 1MPG and when the converter is not locked you do not have full flow to the oil cooler.

James Colvin

Thanks for the input will mention this too.
will let you know

olds 307 and 403

I just experienced this on my 2004R trans. Unnoticeable shifts and full throttle 3500 rpm full throttle shifts. I swapped in the shorter green Trans Go TV limit spring which should have increased shift points. I checked my TV cable and it was only pulling out 3/4 of the way. I made it have full pull at full throttle and have normal shifts around 5000 rpm.

James Colvin

Hey Guys thanks for the info, I took it back today to my Transmission Guy. BTW his Name is Andy from Scugog Transmission in Port Perry Ontario, he's been really helpful with my conversion. We did a road test this morning and he adjusted the bracket back towards the firewall for the tv cable. It seemed to help a bit but now I'm not able to achieve full throttle on the carb. First gear shifts at 4200 and second gear shifts at 3400, third gear shifts even lower. When slowing down it says in the higher gears too long and the engine starts to lug. The way my setup is just not the right geometry so I'm going to try to get the right cable and bracket thru Bowtie Overdrive (thanks jag1886) and will let you know.

James Colvin

Ok so I've ordered a throttle/tv bracket and cable kit from Bowtie Overdrive and I should get it in about 10 days.
Question, if the kit corrects my upshift problems will it also correct the kickdown and downshift problems too?

TexasT

The correct geometry on the tv cable bracket does wonders for the 2004r. It is well worth the time and money to get the cable setup correctly.

jag1886

I can't tell whats going on with your transmission, I know that mine if you drive the car like a normal car it shifts like a normal car, it will shift all the way to OD even if you are only going 30MPH, if you lean on it the shift points go up and it will absolutely howl the tires shifting into second, can't tell you the RPM's because the tach is on the console in my 65 and I don't spend much time looking at it.

bccan

If the Bowtie kit doesn't solve things, my thought is a slightly longer TV spring might help. Something in the 2" - 2.1" range. This is a complete guess but in my 200-4R tuning adventures I have typically gone the other way to tame high shift points. Swapping a longer spring down to a 1.9xx" spring. Naturally pan has to be dropped, spring measured, spring of different length obtained if called for & installed, good news being valve body can stay in place. Hopefully geometry does the trick & you don't have to fiddle further.

I find that each 200 I get involved with requires an average of 6 pan drops to adjust spring lengths, governor weight & speedo gears to get parameters where I want them. If the pan has to come down, be sure to add a drain plug if it does not have one, it relieves the fluid cascade that adds to the aggravation of dropping the pan + you can drain the fluid into jug so you're not wasting $35 of perfectly good fluid.

If the calibration & TV geometry can be nailed down you will like the trans. As Jag relates I usually get them to shift pretty much @ 10,20,30 & into OD @ 40, sometimes 35 with little enough throttle, combined w/ WOT shifts anywhere between 4800-5600 depending on the car. Speedos set to read 1 mph over those radar speed signs that they set up around my town. BUT, unforunately, it never happens without trial, error & adjustments - regardless of who built the unit.

James Colvin

Thanks for the input guys. I will let you know what happens when I get the new Bowtie kit installed

jag1886

That Bowtie kit comes with the TV spring you have to replace, I always forget that spring because I had it put in when my transmission was rebuilt.
If you have the cash change the pan out to a deeper pan with the newer bottom pickup filter (I believe if I remember right it's the 700r4 filter), it makes a real difference when you are abusing the car because it keeps the pickup down in the oil all the time, the standard filter has a top pickup and can get out of the oil on hard execration unless you run the transmission overfull.

James Colvin

Good to know thanks!

Texas442

Would it be possible to post a close up picture as shown below of your bracket / cable installation BEFORE you remove it for the Bowtie? I want to compare to my 200r4 set up shown below:

James Colvin

This is my bracket set up with one that I purchased from a local speed shop. 350 rocket motor, performer intake, 600 Holley carb

jag1886

Here are a couple of photos of my linkage sorry the photos aren't that good, the linkage it your photo shows the cable is hooked up way to high on the throttle arm which would shorten it's throw and make it not work right.

James Colvin

Ya I see what you mean. hopefully the bowtie kit arrives soon I don't want to drive it the way it is.
Thanks Jag

Sampson

Curious if you got this worked out?

James Colvin

Just got the bowtie kit installed today and I must say its a dramatic improvement in shift quality. The further I hold the pedal down the more I can drag out the shifts. I shift from 1st to 2nd at 5500 rpm with a good bark and from 2nd to 3rd at 4200 rpm with a chirp. I would like the 2-3 shift to be longer but I'm still tinkering with the cam adjustment.
see pic of the new setup and please let me know if you have any suggestions.
Thanks
Jamie

JohnnyBs68S

Looking good. That BTO TVEZ kit w/ the cam allows you to change the ratio between throttle opening and TV cable pull which affects the shift behavior. With the adjustment centered like you show in the picture, the center of the radius of the cable pull is right on the throttle shaft and maintains pretty much a constant cable-pull radius throughout the range of throttle opening and results in a linear relationship between throttle angle and cable pull (something that can't be achieved without the cam). Moving the cam adjustment forward moves the pull radius center in front of the throttle shaft, which increases the cable pull radius off-idle and decreases the radius towards WOT and changes the shift behavior in one direction, while moving the cam adjustment backwards does the opposite (less cable pull radius off-idle and more pull radius towards WOT). Its a pretty neat setup, I can't wait to try mine out.

Just curious, did you also install the spring in the valve body that was included in the TVEZ kit?

jag1886

I really like mine, couldn't believe how well it worked right out of the box, I've read the horror stories other people talk about.

James Colvin

Good info thanks . Yes I installed the spring.
Right now as it sits I'm liking the shift qualities but I'm not able to get full throttle on the carb, prob more like 7/8. I need to adjust that.

JohnnyBs68S

The instructions w/ my TVEZ kit says to push (force) the throttle to WOT and the TV cable will "ratchet" through its adjustment so that the valve in the trans is bottomed out at (real) WOT, and that is basically how that part is adjusted.

James Colvin

Yes did that but my problem is that I need the gas pedal to open the carb all the way. it don't right now. How do you adjust the clip down at the pedal?

JohnnyBs68S

Ugh, I wish I knew, I haven't encountered that issue (yet).

James Colvin

Hey Guys just an update with my progress with my 200r4.
well I've got it working great now, after much deliberation I took it to another transmission guy for a second opinion, after all the first guy was really helpful and I don't blame him, some guys know Chevy some guys know Ford etc. The second guy was recommended by a buddy and he knows 200r4s. He drove it for two blocks and said "feels like the torque converter is locked in every gear!" That's what I said in my very first post on this thread lol.
Turns out the solenoid was stuck, he put in a new one and it works great!
as for the lockup I'm gonna put it on a manual switch and only use it on the highway because my engine has a high lobe cam that creates low vacuum and the vacuum switch don't work when it's supposed to.
btw the second guy really liked the bowtie tv cable setup, he's never seen that before.
Thanks Guys for the help!
This site is awesome!

CowsFlyTogether

Sounds like this may be a little late, but I found this article very helpful: http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/497...smission-swap/

jag1886

Glad you are getting things worked out.

JohnnyBs68S

I love a happy ending! {snif}

Good article and diagrams of the "as designed" factory TV cable attachment geometry. It'd be interesting to compare that to what the TVEZ kits provide (throttle angle vs. TV cable pull distance) over the adjustment range.