Variable Pitch /Switch Pitch Turbo 400
June 17th, 2012, 01:53 PM
#1
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Variable Pitch /Switch Pitch Turbo 400
I've got a 67 Th400 that is OEM Variable Pitch. My intent is to run this trans with a 455 in a 3/4 ton Squarebody mid 80's Chevy pickup.
Just curious if anyone else is using a VP TC Th400 and how they like it, and where can you get VP converters from these days? Can they be custom made to have better than OEM stalls? Any suggestions or should I just run a standard Th400 wo the VP? I'm certain I'll be operating the VP with a toggle switch.
Just curious if anyone else is using a VP TC Th400 and how they like it, and where can you get VP converters from these days? Can they be custom made to have better than OEM stalls? Any suggestions or should I just run a standard Th400 wo the VP? I'm certain I'll be operating the VP with a toggle switch.
June 17th, 2012, 01:59 PM
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Is the throttle linkage available from the 67? It has the control switches built into it. You would still be able to override it with manual switches for performance. I would think the trans and converter would work with a mild build 455. I'm not sure about the converter replacement. Maybe some of the others would be able to help.
June 17th, 2012, 02:13 PM
#3
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I'm using one in the blue car, I really like it. Converters are easy to find, any trans shop should be able to get one, I do not know if they are new or rebuilt.
I am using a converter from a jetaway 2 spd trans in my 400, it is smaller so it naturally gave more stall, plus I sent it to be re-worked so it now has like 3000 or so on the high side. But on the low side it is pretty much like a regular converter.
I also have the replacement switch pitch converter for the 400, which the trans shop put in when they rebuilt mine. It is larger than the 2 speed jetaway converter, and tighter, like what it would have been from the factory when new. That was before I found out the smaller converters would fit. I would sell the bigger one to you if you want it. $75 plus the ride, it couldn't have 500 miles on it.
I used the factory controls plus an overide switch to lock it in high stall.
I am using a converter from a jetaway 2 spd trans in my 400, it is smaller so it naturally gave more stall, plus I sent it to be re-worked so it now has like 3000 or so on the high side. But on the low side it is pretty much like a regular converter.
I also have the replacement switch pitch converter for the 400, which the trans shop put in when they rebuilt mine. It is larger than the 2 speed jetaway converter, and tighter, like what it would have been from the factory when new. That was before I found out the smaller converters would fit. I would sell the bigger one to you if you want it. $75 plus the ride, it couldn't have 500 miles on it.
I used the factory controls plus an overide switch to lock it in high stall.
June 17th, 2012, 02:20 PM
#4
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Oh no. The car is long gone. This is a Th400 I bought out of a pasture bolted to a 425 for $25. Yes, and it will stay mild. The intent is to make a sleeper truck. Maybe 400-425hp. With intent to build the bottom strong with good rods and forged pistons just incase I get a wild hair and add a 100 shot of giggly juice. Not a fan of NOS and my own quote has always been "Bottles are for Babies". But, I'm getting older and time to try something new, and I know of a couple of ricers in town that need an *** beatin by some Detroit iron and what better way to do with an ugly sleeper truck. And the toggle switch VP stall will only be used for that purpose anyway. I just prefer to keep it OEM stall since it won't be raced much, then hit the switch and ready for a little race if need be is all I"m after. I build transmissions and already have all the good internal for a Th400 to hold up to lots and lots of hp/tq so no issue there if the VP TC can hold up to it.
June 17th, 2012, 07:12 PM
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The pitch was controlled by a switch originally on the throttle linkage That switch also controlled the passing gear. It would pitch to a higher stall at idle, and change at off idle. Also of course at Wot.
June 17th, 2012, 08:08 PM
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BTW 66luvr, I'll sure keep that big one for $75 in mind. I do have one now, and I know it's a good working one but that's all I know about it. Don't know the mileage and yet to know if it has a bunch of junk in it. I'll know that when I pull the trans apart, so I just might be interested in it. Do you know what the stalls are in that OEM big one???
Now that you've informed me about the smaller one from the Jetaway being compatible, I may do that too. I do have one full size squarebody truck that I used a little Th350 V6 Monza converter in, I get about 2200 stall out of that, not even planning for a high stall. Just so happened to be a great match and exactly what I needed for that truck.
Yeah, I'm aware of how it works in OEM hook-up. I just intend to do the toggle switch. It'll be on the low stall most of the time. Then when a ricer wants to get stupid, I'll hit the switch for high stall til I get moving then turn it off again. This will be moreless just for something cool, and the advantage of keeping the trans cooler when I'm not hot doggin it and being an ***. Also, of all the transmissions I've built, I've never built a VP unit. I've had plenty of beggers for me to build them one but I'm not giving up my only core, and I prefer to be my own Guinea Pig before I start building for others and possibly having a failure.
Now that you've informed me about the smaller one from the Jetaway being compatible, I may do that too. I do have one full size squarebody truck that I used a little Th350 V6 Monza converter in, I get about 2200 stall out of that, not even planning for a high stall. Just so happened to be a great match and exactly what I needed for that truck.
Yeah, I'm aware of how it works in OEM hook-up. I just intend to do the toggle switch. It'll be on the low stall most of the time. Then when a ricer wants to get stupid, I'll hit the switch for high stall til I get moving then turn it off again. This will be moreless just for something cool, and the advantage of keeping the trans cooler when I'm not hot doggin it and being an ***. Also, of all the transmissions I've built, I've never built a VP unit. I've had plenty of beggers for me to build them one but I'm not giving up my only core, and I prefer to be my own Guinea Pig before I start building for others and possibly having a failure.
June 17th, 2012, 08:56 PM
#7
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High stall variable-pitch converters are available if you have a core to rebuild. I had a couple done by Tri-Shield Performance for my '67 442.
I also have a used PAE high-stall VP converter that I bought from a member on the V8Buick site and ran in my 442 before I got the custom TSP units. I would sell the PAE converter if you'd be interested. Shoot me a PM for details & price. I believe PAE went out of business a couple years ago.
By the way, I originally thought the VP trans would work best in high stall off the line, then switch to low stall a short distance out, but after trying it a few different ways I found my ET's were better when I ran the converter in the high stall position right through the timing traps.
I also have a used PAE high-stall VP converter that I bought from a member on the V8Buick site and ran in my 442 before I got the custom TSP units. I would sell the PAE converter if you'd be interested. Shoot me a PM for details & price. I believe PAE went out of business a couple years ago.
By the way, I originally thought the VP trans would work best in high stall off the line, then switch to low stall a short distance out, but after trying it a few different ways I found my ET's were better when I ran the converter in the high stall position right through the timing traps.
June 17th, 2012, 09:05 PM
#8
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Ahhh, I wondered about that too, hitting the switch after launch, or just leaving it alone. Good info. Thanks
I'll sure keep you in mind too when the time comes. First things first, gotta get the motor tore down and some more research there. Budget is also of concern so I won't be able to get it all done at once.
I'll sure keep you in mind too when the time comes. First things first, gotta get the motor tore down and some more research there. Budget is also of concern so I won't be able to get it all done at once.
June 21st, 2012, 07:47 AM
#9
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Jetaway before, TH400 after
I have a 66 Cutlass that came with 330ci and Jetaway trans. Someone has put a 68 350ci and TH400 in it.
I noticed the engine runs at really high rpms at highway speed. I guess the Jetaway required a low geared differential. Anyone got an answer to that?
Also, since it appears I do have something over 4:0 to 1 rear diff, can I use the VariPitch or Jetaway torque converter with my TH400 to lower my highway rpms, and if so, what would be the effective ratio when compared to non-VP/Jetaway cars?
I noticed the engine runs at really high rpms at highway speed. I guess the Jetaway required a low geared differential. Anyone got an answer to that?
Also, since it appears I do have something over 4:0 to 1 rear diff, can I use the VariPitch or Jetaway torque converter with my TH400 to lower my highway rpms, and if so, what would be the effective ratio when compared to non-VP/Jetaway cars?
June 21st, 2012, 08:49 AM
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Not only can you not due to pump set up, and input shaft, it's not going to do as you are expecting it to anyway. It's not a lock up converter. It just means you a Variable Stall speed taking off from a stop is all. Shortly after take off the stator in the converter is working at it's full potential. Variable pitch converters were 65-67 in the Th400's, and they were not in all TH400's. Example, I'm not so sure any Chevrolet Th400 ever got Variable Pitch TC's.
I like your set up though with the 4.10/4.11 ratio, but I sure feel your pain on the freeway. Kinda gives you the feeling of needing to pull your legs up into the seat ready for rods and pistons to come thru the floorboard I bet. I'd never suggest this since I like keeping these older cars OEM as much as possible, but since it's already been changed, you might consider having someone beef you up a 700r4 or 200-4r. The 200-r4 Bellhousing will bolt up to an Olds block, the 700r4 you'd have to use an adapter from Chevy bellhousing. Although the OD transmissions aren't as strong, I still love'm for the idea of having your cake and eat it too. Low geared rear ends, but yet still be reasonable on the freeway.
Another almost bullet proof option is a 4L80-E. The OD version of a Th400. The bad part is, they require the computer and electronics. Only way around it is to use a Full Manual Valve Body where you'd have to shift every gear manually. You can also get an aftermarket stand alone computer for it, but they are pricey in the neighborhood of $1000 for the ECM and wiring harness. Hopefully those have come down in price now though too. It's been several years since I checked. Another option is to find out which Chevy trucks, I'm wanting to say like 88-92 or somewhere thereabouts, that had the 6.5 diesel motor and the 4L80-E in 3/4 and 1 tons, because those models had a stand alone OEM computer just to operate the trans. I know, a needle in a haystack because of the short years available, only 3/4 and 1 tons, and the 6.5 diesel makes it's a rare find. Also, you'd have to use the Chevy Bellhousing converter. OK, so now that I've chewed your ear off with options..... Good Luck with it whatever you decide.
I like your set up though with the 4.10/4.11 ratio, but I sure feel your pain on the freeway. Kinda gives you the feeling of needing to pull your legs up into the seat ready for rods and pistons to come thru the floorboard I bet. I'd never suggest this since I like keeping these older cars OEM as much as possible, but since it's already been changed, you might consider having someone beef you up a 700r4 or 200-4r. The 200-r4 Bellhousing will bolt up to an Olds block, the 700r4 you'd have to use an adapter from Chevy bellhousing. Although the OD transmissions aren't as strong, I still love'm for the idea of having your cake and eat it too. Low geared rear ends, but yet still be reasonable on the freeway.
Another almost bullet proof option is a 4L80-E. The OD version of a Th400. The bad part is, they require the computer and electronics. Only way around it is to use a Full Manual Valve Body where you'd have to shift every gear manually. You can also get an aftermarket stand alone computer for it, but they are pricey in the neighborhood of $1000 for the ECM and wiring harness. Hopefully those have come down in price now though too. It's been several years since I checked. Another option is to find out which Chevy trucks, I'm wanting to say like 88-92 or somewhere thereabouts, that had the 6.5 diesel motor and the 4L80-E in 3/4 and 1 tons, because those models had a stand alone OEM computer just to operate the trans. I know, a needle in a haystack because of the short years available, only 3/4 and 1 tons, and the 6.5 diesel makes it's a rare find. Also, you'd have to use the Chevy Bellhousing converter. OK, so now that I've chewed your ear off with options..... Good Luck with it whatever you decide.
Last edited by hotrodpc; June 21st, 2012 at 08:52 AM.
June 21st, 2012, 09:11 AM
#12
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Not only can you not due to pump set up, and input shaft, it's not going to do as you are expecting it to anyway. It's not a lock up converter. It just means you a Variable Stall speed taking off from a stop is all. Shortly after take off the stator in the converter is working at it's full potential. Variable pitch converters were 65-67 in the Th400's, and they were not in all TH400's. Example, I'm not so sure any Chevrolet Th400 ever got Variable Pitch TC's.
I like your set up though with the 4.10/4.11 ratio, but I sure feel your pain on the freeway. Kinda gives you the feeling of needing to pull your legs up into the seat ready for rods and pistons to come thru the floorboard I bet. I'd never suggest this since I like keeping these older cars OEM as much as possible, but since it's already been changed, you might consider having someone beef you up a 700r4 or 200-4r. The 200-r4 Bellhousing will bolt up to an Olds block, the 700r4 you'd have to use an adapter from Chevy bellhousing. Although the OD transmissions aren't as strong, I still love'm for the idea of having your cake and eat it too. Low geared rear ends, but yet still be reasonable on the freeway.
Another almost bullet proof option is a 4L80-E. The OD version of a Th400. The bad part is, they require the computer and electronics. Only way around it is to use a Full Manual Valve Body where you'd have to shift every gear manually. You can also get an aftermarket stand alone computer for it, but they are pricey in the neighborhood of $1000 for the ECM and wiring harness. Hopefully those have come down in price now though too. It's been several years since I checked. Another option is to find out which Chevy trucks, I'm wanting to say like 88-92 or somewhere thereabouts, that had the 6.5 diesel motor and the 4L80-E in 3/4 and 1 tons, because those models had a stand alone OEM computer just to operate the trans. I know, a needle in a haystack because of the short years available, only 3/4 and 1 tons, and the 6.5 diesel makes it's a rare find. Also, you'd have to use the Chevy Bellhousing converter. OK, so now that I've chewed your ear off with options..... Good Luck with it whatever you decide.
I like your set up though with the 4.10/4.11 ratio, but I sure feel your pain on the freeway. Kinda gives you the feeling of needing to pull your legs up into the seat ready for rods and pistons to come thru the floorboard I bet. I'd never suggest this since I like keeping these older cars OEM as much as possible, but since it's already been changed, you might consider having someone beef you up a 700r4 or 200-4r. The 200-r4 Bellhousing will bolt up to an Olds block, the 700r4 you'd have to use an adapter from Chevy bellhousing. Although the OD transmissions aren't as strong, I still love'm for the idea of having your cake and eat it too. Low geared rear ends, but yet still be reasonable on the freeway.
Another almost bullet proof option is a 4L80-E. The OD version of a Th400. The bad part is, they require the computer and electronics. Only way around it is to use a Full Manual Valve Body where you'd have to shift every gear manually. You can also get an aftermarket stand alone computer for it, but they are pricey in the neighborhood of $1000 for the ECM and wiring harness. Hopefully those have come down in price now though too. It's been several years since I checked. Another option is to find out which Chevy trucks, I'm wanting to say like 88-92 or somewhere thereabouts, that had the 6.5 diesel motor and the 4L80-E in 3/4 and 1 tons, because those models had a stand alone OEM computer just to operate the trans. I know, a needle in a haystack because of the short years available, only 3/4 and 1 tons, and the 6.5 diesel makes it's a rare find. Also, you'd have to use the Chevy Bellhousing converter. OK, so now that I've chewed your ear off with options..... Good Luck with it whatever you decide.
June 21st, 2012, 10:16 AM
#13
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I can give you exact #'s if you wish, but in essence that is exactly what it will do. 200-r4 with a .75 overdrive or round # of 25%. 4.10 broke down to 25% is 1, so sure, in round not exact #'s, that would be like you had a 3.08 rear end ratio, but you still have the 4.10/4.11 for a nice take off from a stop and great torque multiplication to the rear wheels.
Last edited by hotrodpc; June 21st, 2012 at 10:20 AM.
June 21st, 2012, 10:41 AM
#14
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I dug up some exact figures. The 200-R4 has a .67 overdrive with lock up converter.
So, 4.10 gears at a 1 to 1 ratio and a 28in tire, you'd be taching 3450rpm at 70mph. Actually more because the Th400 converter does not lock up, so you lose a 200-300 rpm there. That's motor screamin at 70mph.
4.10 gears, 28 in. tire at 70mph with the 200-R4 and .67 OD, you'd be taching 2300rpm. Over 1100 rpms differant and comfortably drive 70-75mph without a screamin motor.
So, 4.10 gears at a 1 to 1 ratio and a 28in tire, you'd be taching 3450rpm at 70mph. Actually more because the Th400 converter does not lock up, so you lose a 200-300 rpm there. That's motor screamin at 70mph.
4.10 gears, 28 in. tire at 70mph with the 200-R4 and .67 OD, you'd be taching 2300rpm. Over 1100 rpms differant and comfortably drive 70-75mph without a screamin motor.
September 11th, 2012, 09:05 PM
#16
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switch pitch
are you selling the torq convertor? If so how much? Detroit-Dacco (crossville, TN)still stocks them at around $95. Think they're listed as B1 and B2.
November 26th, 2014, 07:30 PM
#17
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Plus the 2004r has a deeper 2.76 first gear compared to the 2.48 in the th400.
November 28th, 2014, 02:01 PM
#18
I have a Switch pitch th400 in my 65 delta and I like it. I've never actually driven a car without the switch pitch so I can't say I notice when it kicks in and when it doesn't. I still only get about 13-14 mpg on the highway in that car, but some of that may be due to timing not being perfect and Carb issues.
Mine is controlled by a throttle control unit instead of a toggle switch.
Mine is controlled by a throttle control unit instead of a toggle switch.
Last edited by StarGeneral; November 28th, 2014 at 02:08 PM.
November 30th, 2014, 08:02 AM
#20
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November 30th, 2014, 11:25 PM
#21
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Just to add, Year models didn't dictate the tailshaft length, the body model did. Most of the land yacht models got the long shaft, all the rest got the short shaft. The 67 OB that I have is a 9in.
December 2nd, 2014, 10:03 AM
#22
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Still waiting to hear price on OG trans if still available please email me directly at jeff.n84@hotmail.com
December 7th, 2014, 08:27 AM
#23
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Still waiting to hear price on OG trans if still available please email me directly at jeff.n84@hotmail.com
OG trans
December 16th, 2014, 12:06 PM
#26
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Sure is.
Www.trishieldperformance.com
Jim Weise is his name.
Or you could try www.phoenixtrans.com
Ask for Greg or Scott.
Both places should be able to get you setup.
If you can't get with that og 2004r hit craigslist or the wrecking yard and look for an AA code unit from a Cadillac. That is what I am using, though it did need some upgrades.
Www.trishieldperformance.com
Jim Weise is his name.
Or you could try www.phoenixtrans.com
Ask for Greg or Scott.
Both places should be able to get you setup.
If you can't get with that og 2004r hit craigslist or the wrecking yard and look for an AA code unit from a Cadillac. That is what I am using, though it did need some upgrades.
Last edited by TexasT; December 16th, 2014 at 04:28 PM.
February 12th, 2015, 04:05 AM
#27
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I purchased switch pitch converter from dacco(transtar) part # d1. It was like $110. Shipped, no core. I have not been able to drive yet due to weather. Does anyone no if there is an obvious difference between the stall speeds?
February 12th, 2015, 05:10 AM
#28
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switch pitch converter
I bought a 12" and a 13" from Dacco-Detroit out of Mobile, AL. They were B-1 & B-2 models and they cost $95 each. I installed the 13" which is for the TH400 and it stalled at 1700/2400ish. I pulled the motor a week or so later and to update a cam/lifters and while it was out put the 12" convertor in. Motor in, and the 12" stalled at 1700/3000ish.
I paid $95 each and they delivered them to my local transmission shop along with his normal parts run. I know the 12" is for the TH300, but I got it in case I cammed the motor (and did)at a later date and needed the looser convertor. Just my experience. Most of the big name trans dealers wanted $350+ for a convertor. Theirs is probably furnace braised, and anti ballooning, and painted their color. I'm 99% street with an occasional trip to an 1/8th mile. So far, so good. Hope this helps.
I paid $95 each and they delivered them to my local transmission shop along with his normal parts run. I know the 12" is for the TH300, but I got it in case I cammed the motor (and did)at a later date and needed the looser convertor. Just my experience. Most of the big name trans dealers wanted $350+ for a convertor. Theirs is probably furnace braised, and anti ballooning, and painted their color. I'm 99% street with an occasional trip to an 1/8th mile. So far, so good. Hope this helps.
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