Olds5798

I was hoping some Jetaway experianced mech could help me with my 57 Olds trans. Since buying the car in 87 and having the trans out for external seal replacements 10 yrs AGO not to mention the front main seal that was dumping, I made the mistake of putting only 7 qts in the trans. (no money). I was getting a whirring sound last year on and off but didn't remember that I never topped off the trans. Last summer I drove the car one block to let Engine Dynamics give me a price on an engine rebuild, it idled about 1/2 hour in the hot sun then I drove it back one block home. Trans shifted fine as by now I had it on jacks and went through 4 gears numerous times with no leaks. One month ago I finally got my plates installed and decided to drive it to the gas station to fill it up, first time. As soon as I left my driveway trans would not upshift to 2nd. Checed the fluid in trans then the lightbulb went on as I saw nothing on the stick. 4qts later problem still exists, fluid doesn't smell burnt and no more whirring noise. The manual said it was the front pump, too bad I never checked the fluid level along time ago as I never saw a leak and I was sure I had topped it off. Ya right!! I called a trans shop that I know has rebuilt a Jetaway before and he said I probably burned out high gear. To me it don't even make sense and he said he wanted worst case senario $3,000. I decided to do everything I can except pull out the trans again. I put the TV linkage in spec with the shop manual and added some Lucas but no help so I pulled the pan, went for the valve bodies and from what I can gather the front clutch coupling can't be filling with fluid so it can be possible that a the coupling valve could be sticking along with other possibilities. After removing and disassy of the front clutch valve body I found my shop manual to be out of date or inaccurate as one spring instead of two as shown by the parts breakdown were in fact used on my coupling valve. The inner spring was not used as with the 58 Cadillac as I understand it. This was the first of two problems. The second problem has become more troubling to me and I was hoping you could help.
During removal of my shift valve body from channel body and careful removal of separator plate THERE WAS NO CHECK BALL AND SPRING AS CAUTIONED FOR REMOVAL IN MY SHOP MANUAL. Could you tell me if this is another mistake by my shop manual and possibly normal for my transmission? I am sure I couldn’t have botched the removal as it was not done in a dark garage but in a white kitchen and table with plenty of light.
I am currantly going through all the valves and tomorrow will clean and inspect the accumulator/servo assy. I was planing on removing the pressure regulator which is tough to get to for me and I wanted to look at the governor but understand its inside the tailshaft housing and well I,m getting on in years in fact retired this year, disabled vet. Bad back u name it and need to be polishing the wreck instead of climbing under it.
PS- Pump press checks front and rear a possibility? I'm at my tech limit as not in shop manual. Please keep me in mind and reply at at your convenience as it would be really appreciated. Respectfully yours,
Don Horvath

Tedd Thompson

Hay you transmission guys can we help this member out?....Tedd

citcapp

Contact D2-****** he is a member here and from his posts has more knowledge then most on these transmissions

Olds5798

Thanks for shove Tedd, and it worked too. Boy already i'm in the hole for you my friend. Wish I could buy ya a drink or something. Your the man! Just finished going through the valve bodies, I'll probably put them up tomorrow. Still other stuff to go through even if somebody doesn't come up with something. Im sure that D-2willys guy will have something, I just hope its something not too Demanding you know like pulling that tail shaft assy off, I just don't feel like doing that. Thanks again Buddy.

Olds5798

Ok Capp, Thanks so much for the fast track. I'll do that, I'm a lucky guy running into a moderator like you. You gotta be a good reason why everybody loves this site. If you run for reelection you got my vote ya hear!




1

59-59-59

There may have been mid year changes to the valve body in the transmission - it may be why you found a lack of springs and or check *****. The later Slim Jim's had like six changes in one year! I forgot if '57 was a single or dual coupling type so I'm giving you both scenerios. This is straight from a '58 Motors - This is for a single coupling type- No Upshifts (Operates in First Only) 1- Check operation of front clutch and front band release with air pressure. Excessive leak would prevent front unit from shifting into direct drive. 2- Sticking governor plungers. 3- plug missing in parking brake bracket. 4- Leak in governor feed passages. 5- Worn governor rings or ring lands. 6- Leak between parking brake bracket and case. 7- Leak between governor rings and oil delivery sleeve. This next section is for dual coupling type - No Upshifts 1- Governor valves sticking. 2- Broken governor oil seal rings. 3- Sticking valve or dirt in valve body. Maybe more can be answered by this- Are you stuck in first in Drive AND Super ranges?

Olds5798

Thanks 59 for your reply. Yes its a dual coupling and your right 56 was the end of the check ball and spring but shows up in my 57 manual. Its stuck in 1st whether in D or S. Found some sludge in valve bodies but is believed to be localized to deadend sections in channel passages. Hope it wasn't but looks like it was. Valve bodies going in probably tomorrow. Question I know I should check it but are you talking about the governor that inside the tailshaft housing, I was telling Tedd Thompson I sure don't feel like pulling that cause I'm feeling old lately. What about the press regulator, you think I should look at that? Last question Please, what about pump pressures, If that front pump was damaged cause of the 4qts low would I be able to shift from drive and reverse, is there any way to test pump pressures and wouldn't I need them both operating a max efficiency to fill the front clutch coupling? I really thank you for your time and great post. Lastly If I really overreved the eng I could get it to shift up several times on jack which could have been 3rd and 4th. Guess that doesn't prove nothing just general knowledge. Hope I didn't go off on you just thinking about alot lately.

Olds5798

Thanks 59 for your reply. Yes its a dual coupling and your right 56 was the end of the check ball and spring but shows up in my 57 manual. Its stuck in 1st whether in D or S. Found some sludge in valve bodies but is believed to be localized to deadend sections in channel passages. Hope it wasn't but looks like it was. Valve bodies going in probably tomorrow. Question I know I should check it but are you talking about the governor that inside the tailshaft housing, I was telling Tedd Thompson I sure don't feel like pulling that cause I'm feeling old lately. What about the press regulator, you think I should look at that? Last question Please, what about pump pressures, If that front pump was damaged cause of the 4qts low would I be able to shift from drive and reverse, is there any way to test pump pressures and wouldn't I need them both operating a max efficiency to fill the front clutch coupling? I really thank you for your time and great post. Lastly If I really overreved the eng I could get it to shift up several times on jack which could have been 3rd and 4th. Guess that doesn't prove nothing just general knowledge. Hope I didn't go off on you just thinking about alot lately.

d2_willys

Don: Put the valve body back in and try again. Make real sure that the TV rod is adjusted correctly. You said that if you overrev the engine that the transmission shifts. This is possibly caused by the TV rod being incorrectly adjusted. But my first guess is the governor is sticking and causing the shift problem. You have the right idea that the controlled coupling is not filling. And the front pump is ok, as is the pressure regulator, otherwise the transmission would not work at all, in any ranges. The governor is not that difficult to get to. Remove driveshaft, speed cable. Then remove the rear extension housing and the governor should be right there to the passenger side of the transmission.
Some of the older transmissions have ports to check pressures. If this has a governor pressure port, then check with a standard oil pressure gauge. Have the back wheels off the ground and accelerate and see if the gauge goes up, if not then the governor is the problem.

Tedd Thompson

D2-******,

I thought ( probably incorrectly) that the dual coupling hydros went out in mid 56 and the jetaway is single plane,is that wrong.....Just curious ..Tedd

Olds5798

I don't know that much about them just what I needed to find out to do this thing Tedd, but its my impression that Jetaway (Olds Terminology) was used in Pontiacs, Cadillacs, I believe Buicks with different names but same transmission right up into early 60s. The Dual coupling configuration where in the front unit coupling is like a miniature drive torus and driven torus similar to the system off the fly wheel. When the front unit coupling fills with fluid it drives a separate shaft which bypasses 1st gear, (front sun gear setup so the ratio is real low) instead goes to direct drive to the rear clutch and sprag clutch which decides whether you should go to 3rd or 4th speed which now drives the output shaft. The Front unit coupling is the only one in the trans that fills and empties. Its empty in 1st, fills for 2nd is still empty in 3rd, then fills in 4th. The rear part of the trans is using another rear reduction unit (sun gears) and clutch plates which decide whether or not to use the rear sun gears like in 3rd they are being used and in 4th clutches go bypassing the rear sun gears and putting the output shaft into direct drive. So 1st front unit coupling is empty, front sun gears used to drive rear sun gears to output shaft. 2nd front unit coupling fills (direct drive) to rear unit sun gears to output shaft. 3rd front unit coupling empties front sun gears used to drive rear unit sun gears to output shaft. 4th front unit coupling fills (direct drive) to rear unit clutch bypasses rear unit sun gears and goes to direct drive to output shaft. The beauty of this front to rear thing going on is because of 2 shafts, inner and outer that run through the center of the trans as you well know and a special clutch used called a sprag clutch. It surrounds the shaft it drives as a bearing but will grip say clockwise or slip say counterclockwise so no clutch plates need to be used on this clutch. This clutch is used to put the front unit coupling in direct drive to the rear setup and is also used in conjunction with clutch plates in the rear reduction set up. My buddy and I used to bring our girls out drinking on Friday nights to Staten Island in his 57. He used to floor that thing everytime he took off. We were all drunk and don't know how we made it back and forth as I was always in the back seat with my girl. What a blast and that Jetaway was bulletproof. As hard as he tried he couldn't blow it up or the engine. Did they invent the time machine YET?

d2_willys

Tedd, single coupling (known as dual range) hydramatics were phased out in 56 in favor of the Jetaway dual coupling hydramatic. Reasoning was that the earlier hydramatic had issues with mis-timed shifts, especially 2-3 shifts. Also the shifts were quite tight, and Cadillac wanted a smoother shifting transmission, therefore Jetaway.

Funny thing was that the earlier hydramatic was used in gassers and converted by B&M to HYDRO-STICKS. The early hydramatics are very strong transmissions.

d2_willys

The dual coupling hydro had some unique ideas. I am NOT a fan of Sprag clutches and consider them the weak link in these transmissions. But the dual coupling hydro with the sprags eliminated both bands and one of the clutch paks. The over run band seldom needs any adjustment, as it is only used LO range. So from a maintenance aspect, the DC hydro was much simpler to service.

Olds5798

Hey D-2 welcome back. You wrote me last night and I wrote you back twice. The second time I wrote you cause I wasn't sure that it sent and I asked you if that was a plan. So was it or maybe you didn't get my msg so I will repeat last important part. I said that I went through all the valves and you mentioned a 1-2 shift valve and I said I couldn't find it just 2-3 and 3-4 valves in the shift valve body along with the governor valves. I then said if you were thinking of the governor in in the rear cover of the rear pump inside the tailshaft, what if I tackle that if after I install the pump regulator and the rest inside the pan. Put up the pan, fill it up test it on jacks and then if I have, go for the governor. I asked you if I did that could I jack the car and tilt the trans fwd and not have to drain the pan to pull the tail shaft housing, maybe I wouldn't lose any fluid? Is that a plan cause your the Man! Great feedback on sprag clutches and overrun bans, who knew that? I think we should raise that price to 12 billion, what do ya think? You kind of remind me of a young Al Bundi anybody ever tell ya that?

Olds5798

Hey D-2, sorry man I never saw this post you made yesterday about putting the valves back in and trying it again. Also about the possible governor test with the guage. Thanks again, sorry I missed it, not really sure about getting my way around here, seems like I miss things and don't even see how to get to regular mail, as I get all mine on this trans site but I'm not COMPLAINING OK?

d2_willys

No biggie, all I ask is to just stick with it till it runs! These oldies are fun and even the new crowd are interested in these old hydros. My stepdaugter's boy friend is really getting interested in the single coupling dual range hydros. I gave him a bunch of info for him to absorb.

There is an older thread on this website about a 55 Olds hydro. You should read this as the poster is a 16 year old rebuilding his hydro. It is very interesting, and believe it, he got the thing running. He had to replace some hard parts (planetaries) and got it back together. It ran after he found the control lever for the shift selector was loose. He tightened it up and said it runs fine. I complimented him, and hope that more of the young crowd start taking interest in these oldies. If not, we are all in trouble in the future.

Olds5798

Good for you D-2, thats what it all about and thats how come I'm talking to you right now. You make the difference and help one understanding of the concept, your a great instructor and I leaned on you like a crutch. I promise you I will stick with this to the end of troubleshooting, the end of the line for me coming up soon. You thought It might be the governor and I was hoping it wasn't but lets hope it is cause the tv linkage worked fine and nothing changed except the trans going south and the tv adjusted at least 3/8 of and inch out to put in spec. nice clearance nowat fast idle speed adjustment between the tv valve and lever, none at throttle valve close and tv lever full aft. Im sure its better not just right. I wont make another removal of the trans as I did ten years ago to change a front seal and replacement of the rest of the exterenal seals. I Had that damn housing off before, never bothered to pull the governor as the trans worked fine. Let the sixteen year olds do it, I'm near sticking a blasting cap and powder into the tailshft if ya know what I mean. I'm in the middle of a divorce(40 years) and my wife is barking to get my stuff out of here and the car is liking sitting in the garage since 87. Know that you are loved D-2. Im not a quitter, like you I never was, but sometime the boss says yesterday, make it happen and you got stuck in the river currants so thanks for the ride, we got it on the run. By the way found the guage plug at the bottom of the rear pump, but didn't think I needed it and don't believe you thought so either. Looked but can't find your last thought on that and think it was what i figured, will just prove rear pump press which is almost a given. Do ya think it would be around 55psi, just for a guess at max? Whats the chances of the rear pump pressure low with fwd and rev fine?

jensenracing77

somehow i missed this thread. i think i am going to need your help with a 62 Jetfire d2. when it 1-2 shifts it is like it is in neutral. if i go faster in first then let off the throttle when it shifts it will skip 2 and go to (i think) 3. i don't know if it ever goes to 4th. i am going to try to adjust the TV rod the best i can tonight but i don't have the measurement or tool to check the TV lever coming out of the transmission. do you have a recommendation on that. i plan to just try the TV rod adjustment and just hope that the lever is OK.

Olds5798

Attempted to remove tailshaft housing today but got bogged down with campanion shaft wouldn't come off. Looks like I will have to make a puller or something like the manual shows. tried striking flange with hammer but wouldn't budge. Don't remember what I did last time when the trans was out. Damn, jacking rear up not much of a help. Wheels about a foot and a half off of ground and frame still almost on my chest.

d2_willys

Sad to hear you are in a divorce, went through one back in 87, raising my two kids pretty much by myself. They are grown now. I married a good woman back in 07 and we are compatible. She cringes at the thought of another vehicle, so I won't be buying another vehicle too soon. She kinda got mad when I bought a C4 automatic for $50 a couple of weeks ago.

Anyway, the rear pump pressure should have no affect on the 1-2 shift. The companion shaft is something I have not heard of. I will have to look in my manual for that. The rear housing should not be a big problem to get apart.

d2_willys

Normally I set the linkage up so that when at idle the TV lever at the transmission is at the extreme end of it's travel (toward back of transmission usually). Then when the carb linkage is at WOT, then the TV lever should be at the opposiite end of it's travel (toward engine usually). The idea is to have the TV lever track the accelerator. If you can get that adjusted to provide the correct travel, then that should be close enough. As far as the neutral feeling on 1-2 shift, well the slim jim is just going from torque multiplier to a direct drive (with gear reduction) on the 1-2 shift. The 2-3 and 3-4 shifts are true shifts using clutches. I will need to get my manual out and look at the possibilities for the poor shift.

Olds5798

Thanks for the well wishes, D2, I've been living with my wife way too Long. In my case I was fed up about at least 15 years ago it became a reality that I could no longer look forward to go on vacation with her any more. She would ruin them sometime the first day. I since met a woman who makes me alot happier and I just retired and went out on permanent disability all in one year. I met her and been seeing her for years, finally my wife found out. My always went on the assumption she wouldn't give a divorce so I would stay. But Im glad she found out because I told her I was leaving anyway. So now I help If she needs it, I'm paying all the bills and Im living with my girlfriend now for good reason, mean while divorce is not finished but started, my nineteen year old stays there and at her boyfriends house and my other two daughters are ok with it as they knew the fighting was terrible over the years. I already said too much on this site in that respect but glad you made a great father all these years.
The manual gives that removable spline d end on the output shaft with the flange for the U joint that name. Yea it was really on there and I went down there without a puller so maybe tomorrow. I'm not lazy, I have a bad back and neck and it hates working under the car between chiropractor visits. I better bring my 9/16 offset to get on those top housing bolts. You have a great night my friend and thanks for looking after me and the other new recruits!

Olds5798

Thanks 59 for your reply. Yes its a dual coupling and your right 56 was the end of the check ball and spring but shows up in my 57 manual. Its stuck in 1st whether in D or S. Found some sludge in valve bodies but is believed to be localized to deadend sections in channel passages. Hope it wasn't but looks like it was. Valve bodies going in probably tomorrow. Question I know I should check it but are you talking about the governor that inside the tailshaft housing, I was telling Tedd Thompson I sure don't feel like pulling that cause I'm feeling old lately. What about the press regulator, you think I should look at that? Last question Please, what about pump pressures, If that front pump was damaged cause of the 4qts low would I be able to shift from drive and reverse, is there any way to test pump pressures and wouldn't I need them both operating a max efficiency to fill the front clutch coupling? I really thank you for your time and great post. Lastly If I really overreved the eng I could get it to shift up several times on jack which could have been 3rd and 4th. Guess that doesn't prove nothing just general knowledge. Hope I didn't go off on you just thinking about alot lately.

Olds5798

Hey D-2, finally got the tailshaft housing off. I had to buy a 11/2" 7/16 bolt to jack that campanion flange off. Damn thing fought me tooth and nail. I didn't drain any fluid, when removing the housing, I left 2 guide bolts in so It would come back straight but wouldn't come off when gasket was breached. Only a couple drops of fluid came out .Something was catching on the right side. I removed the last two bolts pulling it back and forth try not to bang up my rear seal. Finally it let go and then CLANK something with weight fell in the pan and then a spring. After removing the housing I could see the weight had come off the G1 Valve. I removed the governor as manual described with G1 Valve down and it pulled out of its port as expected. After inspecting the valve and as per manual, G1 weight never is supposed to come off even During breakdown disassembly. This was a bittersweet moment as I know the governor is broken I just hope I didn't finish it off or worse yet cause its demise. Before removal as it turned out G1 valve was at 3'Oclock position. Had it been in any other position it never could have caught on the side of the housing and I don't know how it could get caught on the housing but something was holding the housing from pulling rearward and then it did CLANK when the housing finally pulled back . No way did I go crazy beating this housing off, and the threads on the G1 Valve are not stripped (the round weight threads on them) just show the dents where after the weight is install it is staked in two places. I'm kinda happy as we were hoping for a big find but will be happier when the new one is installed and the trans works as planned. Tell me what you think, and about no big fluid dump, maybe it just drains back into pan? I will get Auto Tran online and buy from that guy Dave as he was really nice to me getting the transmission guy down the street to give me a thumbs up on the missing ball and spring (57 omission) and also put up his 57 Pontiac manual showing me the same thing as mine all in 3 days. Anyway I told him He could expect me buying from him and for good reasons. Maybe this is good reason to give you a BIG HI Five Buddy!

d2_willys

You and I can now sing that James Brown song: I FEEL GOOD! WE FEEL GOOD!

I am so glad that you found the culprit! Them pesky governors can do those things! Had my 54 Chrysler governor get chewed up by the speedo gear dropping into the case and tearing up the governor. Had the trans dude show me the old governor and the gear. After putting in the governor the trans shifted to drive. But then the direct drive clutch got cooked. But it has been rebuilt for 20 years and it shifts good and firm.

Let me know when you get the trans back together and how it runs. The lack of the "RED BATH" is not unusual, though the transmission may need some more fluid. Those oldies had deep pans, so you might be right as far as where the fluid is.

Perhaps you can describe the companion flange, as it sounds familiar but not re-callable.

Well, again really happy about the findings. Another hydramatic will live on!

Olds5798

Hey D-2, so far I feel lucky I didn't get done to me like that 54 did to you! That really sucks, any way I FEEL GOOD, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT WE WOULD NOW! Anyway that companion flange that their calling it, is about six or seven inches long and slips on the spline of the output shaft and also makes the real seal. It has the mount for the u joint on the other end. You know if you look at the tailshaft housing if the companion flange is removed, when ya look at the rear seal area you see the splined end of the output shaft in the center. When you slide on "THE FLANGE" and install center installation bolt you can now install the drive shaft. Too bad I can't draw in but its just a small last section of drive shaft to complete the trans for bolt up to the drive shaft. By the way what was the C4 trans for I was wondering?

Olds5798

After long road of bringing my parts car back from the wrecking yard and repairing the oil slinging gearbox from stuck in first to a fully functioning Jetaway 4 speed for full power enjoyment, with a little help from my friends at olds classics.com namely D2, CiCapp and Ted Thompson, managed to save 3 grand for engine rebuild as for first time out testing trans,engine failure is imminent and in dire need need of SHOCK TO BLOCK.(original mill, valves, pistons, cam) now making deep banging sound plus backfire through primaries) It will be lucky to make the one block drive to American Engines for rebuild. Now that Trans is onboard the timely visit to Engine Shop, it is a breath away from reality.
Now taking all suggestions for rebuilding of stock 371 mill to alternative cam grinds/pistons etc for street performance improvements as this is a long awaited, timely trip for its revitalization. All helping suggestions will be greatefully aknowlegded but please keep it in 3G budget (if over I will let you know) THANKS AGAIN FOR THE SPIRIT. It’s got 25 years of mine!!

Olds5798

Hey D2, after completing governor install last Saturday, and marginal Test Monday as could not get 3rd and 4th but 1st to 2nd was a snap with no leaks. Went back Tues with ideas of adding to fluid and possible TV linkage tweak plus spark plugs as engine demise was noticeably worse. Added 4 quarts DEXMerc to fill, installed plugs as fwd right wasn't firing, got it up to 70mph on jacks took it for a drive to as station and trans was at least getting three gears but engine now on last legs, see my last entry please #27. After wiping oil from Eng compt no doubt about the roll down the street to American Engine for Rebuild. Thanks for your help, saved me 3 grand possibly so now I can Finally Bring The Heart in The Beast back to Life. This IRON ain't finished yet! iF you have any suggestions I'm Listening but For 3 grand I want it running better than new if possible more than 325hp but Don't have bucks obviously for J2. One more time buddy give me a look, lets get er done.

Tedd Thompson

Olds 5798

My 324 cost $600 a hole, yep $4800 and I pulled it and separated the engine from the transmission then delivered it to the shop.You might get an estimate on paper before you go through your 3 grand half way through the build. Granted I had everything machined or replaced and without a doubt it could be build cheaper now because of the INTERNET but probably only 20% or so. You might want to check it out....Tedd

d2_willys

Don: Good to hear Mr. Jetaway lives on. But the engine sounds a little weird. Are the spark plug wires correctly wired to plugs and caps? IE: 1 to 1, 2 to 2, etc. Also how many actual miles are on the engine? Could the timing chain be bad, and how is the distributor? I am thinking you might want to have the small things checked out first. Sounds like it might be something simple, kinda like the governor, LOL.

I just spotted a J2 setup, complete on EBAY. I will post the link so that you may want to bid on it. And the link is: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...E:B:SS:US:1123 This is a great price for $499.99 buy it now. Don: Do not hesistate on this!!!! Good luck!

citcapp

Very pleased that things are starting to go your way. Take d2_willys advice and try some simple fixes first. Ya never know! Internet shopping and can save you money just takes time and patience.

Olds5798

D2 Please. Appreciate your suggestion that engine might not need rebuild but have more information on engine I didn't make public. Compression is terrible in all cylinders, I been dealing and rerouting blowby for years. Installed pvc system years ago as the smoke coming out of draft tube would have made the car a non driver right off the bat. Cam is original and worn as most were found to be soft I told out of mfg. I needed the engine to run the car in and out of the garage in 1987. So i repaired and rebuilt all accessories to comply. I went through the entire engine but compression at that time was within limits but not great 86,000 miles Hard Miles. This engine had sludge in it that only non detergent oil could have produced. I flushed engine serveral times checked and replaced rod bearings but they were not worn out of limits, replaced timing chain and gears, water pump rebuilt rest with little or no money replaced a few rockers and shafts that needed it. Its been only within past year engine revs have been really in decline as I couldn't open the secondaries as not enough manifold press. I was hoping yesterday changing the plugs would help out but after cranking 50mph engine noise developed (first time). I believe original valve failure (could hear leakage in carburetor this year when doing cylinder leak down test). Original valves, rings are dated, shot. spark plug wires and the rest are fine. Engine is tired period, take my word for it. As you may aready know these valves should have been running on leaded fuel. In 1974 auto makers started using stellite alloy in valves mfg to compensate for unleaded fuels and the lack of lubrication that lead afforded the valves. They found instead of getting 100,00 mi out of valve wear they could now get 200,000mi. Another spin off from aviation engineering. Thanks for the heads up but its a no brainer that engine needed attention long ago and thought by this time I would have replaced engine with a 58, however sometimes money has been eluding me and never had it to spend it. At least I got car and a few bucks to finally repair. You really think I would have a motor redone because the spark plug wires were misrouted? I'm a 40 years mechanic and 18 on Jets, I'm smart enough to ask for help as with the trans, but I am not the clerk, typist retired. Ha Ha. I enjoy talking with you guys and respect your knowlege on stuff, please don't get me wrong and think I never worked on engines. I thought maybe you guys might have a specific cam grind or something to suggest other than what the AA engine shop wants to use you know. Thanks for the J2 offer, sounds great but I am really going all out money wise with the 3gs. I still need a paint and interior. I don't know if I can afford it. What with gas prices and going to rocket, the divorce, I might have to run it on hydrogen or something. Really would like that J2 darnit. I can't rush into this and if my stock came in (Flmp.pk) I would buy it just to look at or trip over. Was at the engine shop today, he might want to raise the 3g because of part prices and removal/ install prices, he wants me to call him Friday.

Olds5798

Thanks Citcapp, motor is scrap no doubt, not sure what I'm checking internet for although I always buy parts usually from Rock Auto on internet. I think 3 grand is a decent price for removal/installation and rebuild. This Shop does a lot of work for years around here, hydropanes, racecars and am positive he's good and right down the block. Chances are 50% car will roll there before it dies.

Olds5798

Hey D-2 just checked that J2. Looks like one I sold off as a kid(18) when it didnt work on my 58 Corvette. I bought it for 50 bucks with a cracked manifold. Had the manifold repaired, never worked right on the car (front and rear carbs were wrong) sold it tor $150. This one needs work, linkage and time to play with. I really have enough on my plate right now. You should buy it, and resell it after you get it right!










Hey

Olds5798

Thanks Tedd, glad you didn't ask me if I inserted the key correctly in ignition. I know I shouldn't get annoyed so easily and theres no reason to expect me to be handy at the least but everybody has a certain amount of pride and maybe because I have such a junk with everything failing, guys think that I have no Idea what I am doing. Money has a lot to do with it and if I didn't have to cram to learn about Jetaway malfunctions I would have pulled the governor first as it appears to have a chronic habit of falling apart then if I had to take out the valve bodies I would have next. The manual tells you about all these possibilities of the shifting malfunctions but don't give you probabilities and sequence to attack the situation. I will warn everyone about the chance of ring breakage when inserting governor into boss as the rings are so fragile in temper and boss has a very small taper to insert the damn thing. No chance of getting a ring compressor on this thing as no room to work in X frame and no chance of seeing 3/4 of what your doing on the dark side of the moon. One snapped on me first try, good thing I had spare. The damn shaft coupling was so tight coming off and with the center drive shaft pulled back 2 inches and in your face I was lucky to get 2 clicks on the ratchet each time I tightened the puller. Two hours and two extension bolts later and 2 hours in Just for coupling. Spline was clean and lubed but extremely tight fit. Probably didn't need the bolt to secure it. I had it off years ago when I replaced seals but trans was out with room to work, makes the difference.. I had to laugh at the suggestion "something simple like the governor" as you know I told you I really didn't want to pull that tailshaft housing and sometime I have the intuition and inner sense that some jobs can suck. Thanks for the 600 a hole info as I did feel 3gs was decent and hope I can get Shop to chisel price in conctrete. I will make the point that I am not the Feds throwing money at GM.

d2_willys

Don: The suggestions are just suggestions, and now that I know your mechanical know how, I will help out with other issues not as easy to understand, such as the Jetaway stuff.

I would really like to sell my 371 in my 59 as it is really a 58 371. Someone changed it out, but it is rebuilt and runs strong. I know, why would someone want to sell a perfectly good 371. Well it is not the original 371 and does not look like it either, as it has valve covers with two nuts holding them down. 59 and 60 371's are really debored 394 blocks and heads. So I am really looking hard for a 59 or 60 371 for the car. That way it will be more original than what I have. I can use a 60 371 and just stuff 59 pistons in it and it will run just fine, as this is what I did 40 years ago.

As far as the J2 setup, well, I would love to put that on my 58 engine, but you pointed out that it needs some other stuff to make it work. And 500 bucks is out of my chump change.

I have PMed someone on another forum that has a 60 371 for sale, but no responses. So the looking goes on and on.

BTW: Don't know what the quality of the parts are, but EBAY has the rebuild kits for 57-58 Olds for a little under 1200 dollars. Might be interesting to look into.

I didn't mention this, but if I put the 59/60 371 into my car it will have the old dual range hydro attached to it and not the Jetaway. The Jetaway functions fine, but I like the older transmission for it's hard shifts.

Well, sorry if I offended you, but thanks for the explanations. Good luck with your 371 rebuild.

Olds5798

Hey D-2, again want to thank you for your help and I was just telling my girlfriend about the misunderstanding and she says I'm taking things to serious. And well, I do, sometimes you might have run into guys through the years after they bat things around with you may consider you to be disfunctional and you hear about it through the grapevine. I had many runins with the type over the years, especially when I worked on aircraft. I was in the Inspection dept with this older guy and really respected him as he flew the first Falcon 20 to the US in 65 for Pan Am. But he was so arrogant sometimes you wanted to choke him and also was a nasty reformed alcoholic. One day I was inspecting sheet metal repairs made in the engine cowling fan ducts and found a couple long 8 inch cracks he failed and the mechanic failed to locate on his inspection and let him know I was watching him which is not my normal style but up to this point had had enough of his mudslinging at me, I let him have it. We became better friends and he became night shift supervisor. Well when we came back from lunch, sometimes late, on Friday nights from the bar about 4 beers later, all he did was Yell "ALRIGHT LETS GET TO WORK" and look at his watch. And so we did and he was a good guy to work with. Ed Lane was a good man. Thanks for the help, don't grow any hat sizes over me cause everybody can feel good to help somebody and want you to know I do respect you for helping everybody in this forum and could very well of gotten the wrong idea as I am too emotional sometime. Thanks for the appology as you went out of you way again to help me. I appreciate everything you and your friends here do for me and feel bad about bringing up such a matter.
I may be interested in your engine but am considering the changeout also as I told you I am now on permanent disability and for numerous reasons. I also have two bolts mounting each valve cover but you said that was wrong for 59? How many are you supposed to have and how long ago or miles ago was the engine rebuilt. Was it profesionally rebuilt with other than stock parts or was it done non professionall, which would not be a terrible thing just general knowlege. Let me know and I am really glad your not one of those nutty guys.

d2_willys

Don: Thanks for the reply. I am glad that you explained your knowledge and I am cool! As far as the valve covers, in 59 Oldsmobile went completely away from bolting down the valve covers with the two bolts through the top. They simply have bolts around the flange of the covers, I believe 6 or 8 per valve cover.

As far as the rebuild job, well I have the paperwork from the engine builder. I am thinking somewhere around 08-09 it was rebuilt. It doesn't leak, has a solid 40lbs psi oil pressure at hot idle. The old 4bbl Rochester has been replaced with an Edlebrock 4 bbl. It also has an Edlebrock mild cam in it. It really is in good shape and runs strong.

But as I said, I need a 59 or 60 Rocket before I let mine go. I am going to try and put a spin on oil filter from a newer Rocket. I have the OEM filter block and it looks like it is pretty simple. I hate those catridge jobs.

Olds5798

Yea,D, I hate them too. Good idea! I put one on my oil burner as that General Filter didn't catch squat and then put a clear see through element after that to protect the nozzle. No reason in the world to be changing a nozzle in the dead of winter because of some sludge or dirt except for nozzle failure and that's a pretty cold day in hell. Got any idea for approx price you might be asking if you found a 59-60. I wonder what shipping would be from Kansas to NJ. Motor sounds fine to me. No reason to believe it would head south after it rolls up my driveway! Then again. Lets see what the Engine Shop came up with tomorrow if anything I have to call him. The remove and install guy is a contractor from Pa. and believe he is getting 1500. off the top so the Shop is probably going to try to charge more as sure as I'm not getting any younger. Do you have a compatible cartridge mount from from a later Olds that might work or do they sell an adapter? HuH Huh Da Give me a break.

skireel

I have this same problem with my 56 Olds 98 Holiday and pulled the housing off only to find the same issue. The weight had come off the G1. Does anyone know where I can get a replacement governor?