TH400 vs. 200 4R vs. 700 R4

Olds64 · August 30th, 2007, 05:13 PM

Hi everyone! I wanted some info on different trannies before I decide what new engine / tranny combo is going into my 64 98.

Currently my 64 has a valve ticking 394 with a slipping Slim Jim. So even if I decide to put a 307 and TH 200 into my 64 it will probably be an improvement over what is in it now.

I have heard that the TH 400 and 200 4R will bolt right up to a 455 or 403 as long as they have the BOP bellhousing. Is this true? What about a 700 R4? I thought they were only available on Chevy vehicles.

I also heard that the 200 4R would need to be beefed up to handle the torque of a mildly built Olds motor. What is involved with building one of the above trannies. I have rebuilt a TH 350 and my Slim Jim, so I don't have alot of tranny experience. I imagine I can put hi performance clutches and beefy hard parts into a tranny that I tear apart. Or is it better to have someone beef it up for me.

Thanks for the info let me know what you think.

joe_padavano · August 31st, 2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olds64

Hi everyone! I wanted some info on different trannies before I decide what new engine / tranny combo is going into my 64 98.

Currently my 64 has a valve ticking 394 with a slipping Slim Jim. So even if I decide to put a 307 and TH 200 into my 64 it will probably be an improvement over what is in it now.

I have heard that the TH 400 and 200 4R will bolt right up to a 455 or 403 as long as they have the BOP bellhousing. Is this true? What about a 700 R4? I thought they were only available on Chevy vehicles.

I also heard that the 200 4R would need to be beefed up to handle the torque of a mildly built Olds motor. What is involved with building one of the above trannies. I have rebuilt a TH 350 and my Slim Jim, so I don't have alot of tranny experience. I imagine I can put hi performance clutches and beefy hard parts into a tranny that I tear apart. Or is it better to have someone beef it up for me.

Thanks for the info let me know what you think.

You are pretty much correct. First, I assume in any case you'll be swapping the motor, since none of the modern automatics bolt to the 394 without an adpater.

The TH400 is GM's bulletproof three speed automatic and comes in Chevy and BOP bellhousings. It also comes in two different tailhousing lengths. Standard issue behind big block Olds motors from the mid 1960s to 1976. Note that the current 4L80E is an electronic overdrive version of this trans but only comes with a Chevy bolt pattern. It can be bolted to an Olds with the usual Chevy-to-BOP adapter plate, but you'll still need a standalone computer to operate it. This is the only truly bulletproof big block OD trans option.

The 200-4R is an overdrive version of the weak-kneed TH200. I've broken one behind a stock 307, but as you correctly note, beefed up versions of this trans live behind 9 second Buick GNs.

The 700R4 in stock form is not much stronger than the 200-4R and has the added problem of only coming with a Chevy bellhousing. The later 4L60 and 4L60E versions are stronger but the E version needs a computer like the 4L80E. Either the 700R4 or the 200-4R will need work to survive.

Olds64 · August 31st, 2007, 10:50 AM

Thanks for the info Joe! I am hoping someone can tell me what is needed in upgrading the 200 4R. I definitely don't want to put a tranny into the 64 only to have it burn up in a month or two.

joe_padavano · August 31st, 2007, 12:07 PM

Here's a start:

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/tran.../200rebld.html

Olds64 · August 31st, 2007, 05:04 PM

Thanks for the link Joe! I also posted over on ROP and they mentioned the Turbo Buick forums. It seems that there are quite a few people that speak highly of a Brian Hofer for doing rebuilds on 200 4R trannies. I will do some more research and keep his name in the back of my head. It might be a pretty big project to do an engine and tranny at the same time.

68conv455 · November 20th, 2007, 05:56 PM

Since you have a slim jim, you may want to consider the 2004R or TH350 over the TH400. They are the same Over-All-Length, and therefore, (do you own D&D here) will not require any driveshaft length modifications. Both require modificaitons to be bullit proof which by todays standards are common. I have researched 2004R's including Brian H. You should also look at Monster and Bowtie overdrive. The latter both have websites that you can research. You can also find a lot of info on the web on how to increase the strength of the 2004R including parts required. Of course, the major benefit of the 2004R is the overdrive. You can have gears to get up and go while also having low RPM (and quiet) highway cruise. I should caution you that I have not yet purchased or installed a 2004R... but I am going to.

88 coupe · November 20th, 2007, 11:56 PM

Bowtie would not be your best choice.

Norm

November 21st, 2007, 12:35 AM

Please don't put a 307 in your 64....that motor is literally a giant black turd =(

When I tear mine out of my Cutlass I'm going to build a catapult specifically to test out how far I can launch a giant black turd...see if I can launch the sucker across the Snake River maybe.

85CutlassSupremeInSC · January 10th, 2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar83501

Please don't put a 307 in your 64....that motor is literally a giant black turd =(

When I tear mine out of my Cutlass I'm going to build a catapult specifically to test out how far I can launch a giant black turd...see if I can launch the sucker across the Snake River maybe.

LMAO!

Jolly Green · January 17th, 2008, 04:34 PM

May I suggest a Trebuchet. Very easy to build and useful if you're partying neighbor has a thick protective wall around his house.

Topless72 · January 18th, 2008, 06:25 PM

I'm anticipating putting a 700R4 in my 72 ragtop tied to the 455. I understand a later model set up like 2001 are better than the early years. My neighbor rebuilds tranny's professionally and gave me the rundown on them.

I bought an adapter from the local rod shop for $75. It'll allow the 700R4 to hook up to the 455 and is about .100" thick. I had a 700 R4 in my 72 Monte tied to a 383 stroker, and it was a killer set up. I had the 200 set up in my 87 Grand National and inquired about putting one in my car, but I've heard the newer beef'm up kits still need a little revising to overcome some problems (info from my neighbor).

I'm definitely planning on going with a 700R4 (if I keep the car long enough)...

Olds64 · January 19th, 2008, 11:00 AM

Well, I ended up purchasing a 455 and TH 400 since I started this post. Here is another option for installing an overdrive transmission in an older car. I think it would be a bit more expensive than a 200 4R or 700 R4 conversion though.

http://www.gearvendors.com/index.html

KQQLCAT · January 29th, 2008, 07:17 AM

I would be interested to know if you have to cut the floor to allow the tranny to fit.
Pat

August 30th, 2007, 05:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
Olds64 Landyacht Club President Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lawton, OK Posts: 4,286	TH400 vs. 200 4R vs. 700 R4 Hi everyone! I wanted some info on different trannies before I decide what new engine / tranny combo is going into my 64 98. Currently my 64 has a valve ticking 394 with a slipping Slim Jim. So even if I decide to put a 307 and TH 200 into my 64 it will probably be an improvement over what is in it now. I have heard that the TH 400 and 200 4R will bolt right up to a 455 or 403 as long as they have the BOP bellhousing. Is this true? What about a 700 R4? I thought they were only available on Chevy vehicles. I also heard that the 200 4R would need to be beefed up to handle the torque of a mildly built Olds motor. What is involved with building one of the above trannies. I have rebuilt a TH 350 and my Slim Jim, so I don't have alot of tranny experience. I imagine I can put hi performance clutches and beefy hard parts into a tranny that I tear apart. Or is it better to have someone beef it up for me. Thanks for the info let me know what you think.

August 31st, 2007, 12:07 PM	#4 (permalink)
joe_padavano Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,396	Here's a start: http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/tran.../200rebld.html __________________ Joe Padavano 64 Jetstar 88 Conv 66 442 L-69 Conv 68 W-30 69 H/O 69 442 70 W-30 72 442 84 Custom Cruiser 86 Caprice wagon (w/307 Olds)

January 18th, 2008, 06:25 PM	#11 (permalink)
Topless72 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Palm City, FL Posts: 103	I'm anticipating putting a 700R4 in my 72 ragtop tied to the 455. I understand a later model set up like 2001 are better than the early years. My neighbor rebuilds tranny's professionally and gave me the rundown on them. I bought an adapter from the local rod shop for $75. It'll allow the 700R4 to hook up to the 455 and is about .100" thick. I had a 700 R4 in my 72 Monte tied to a 383 stroker, and it was a killer set up. I had the 200 set up in my 87 Grand National and inquired about putting one in my car, but I've heard the newer beef'm up kits still need a little revising to overcome some problems (info from my neighbor). I'm definitely planning on going with a 700R4 (if I keep the car long enough)... __________________

January 19th, 2008, 11:00 AM	#12 (permalink)
Olds64 Landyacht Club President Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lawton, OK Posts: 4,286	Well, I ended up purchasing a 455 and TH 400 since I started this post. Here is another option for installing an overdrive transmission in an older car. I think it would be a bit more expensive than a 200 4R or 700 R4 conversion though. http://www.gearvendors.com/index.html __________________ Ferris, my father loves this car more than life itself... Apparently, you don't understand! Ferris, he never drives it! He just rubs it with a diaper! Cameron Frye Ferris Bueller's Day Off 1986

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August 31st, 2007, 10:50 AM	#3 (permalink)
Olds64 Landyacht Club President Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lawton, OK Posts: 4,286	Thanks for the info Joe! I am hoping someone can tell me what is needed in upgrading the 200 4R. I definitely don't want to put a tranny into the 64 only to have it burn up in a month or two.

August 31st, 2007, 05:04 PM	#5 (permalink)
Olds64 Landyacht Club President Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lawton, OK Posts: 4,286	Thanks for the link Joe! I also posted over on ROP and they mentioned the Turbo Buick forums. It seems that there are quite a few people that speak highly of a Brian Hofer for doing rebuilds on 200 4R trannies. I will do some more research and keep his name in the back of my head. It might be a pretty big project to do an engine and tranny at the same time.

November 20th, 2007, 05:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
68conv455 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 259	Since you have a slim jim, you may want to consider the 2004R or TH350 over the TH400. They are the same Over-All-Length, and therefore, (do you own D&D here) will not require any driveshaft length modifications. Both require modificaitons to be bullit proof which by todays standards are common. I have researched 2004R's including Brian H. You should also look at Monster and Bowtie overdrive. The latter both have websites that you can research. You can also find a lot of info on the web on how to increase the strength of the 2004R including parts required. Of course, the major benefit of the 2004R is the overdrive. You can have gears to get up and go while also having low RPM (and quiet) highway cruise. I should caution you that I have not yet purchased or installed a 2004R... but I am going to.

November 21st, 2007, 12:35 AM	#8 (permalink)
dar83501 Guest Posts: n/a	Please don't put a 307 in your 64....that motor is literally a giant black turd =( When I tear mine out of my Cutlass I'm going to build a catapult specifically to test out how far I can launch a giant black turd...see if I can launch the sucker across the Snake River maybe.

January 17th, 2008, 04:34 PM	#10 (permalink)
Jolly Green Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 152	May I suggest a Trebuchet. Very easy to build and useful if you're partying neighbor has a thick protective wall around his house.

January 29th, 2008, 07:17 AM	#13 (permalink)
KQQLCAT Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hudson, WI Posts: 102	I would be interested to know if you have to cut the floor to allow the tranny to fit. Pat

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