330jetstar

What would it take to get a 700r4 behind a 330 in a 1964 Jetstar I am doing an engine rebuild right now and I'm not sure if I want to rebuild the jet away or go through the hassle and switch Trans. I'm not at all interested in cutting the floor.

Olds64

If that's the case then I suggest you consider rebuilding the stock transmission. Even if the floor doesn't need modification you will have to modify the driveshaft and transmission mounts. Plus, you will need an adapter plate since the 700R4 didn't have a BOP bolt pattern. That's why most folks consider a 2004R over a 700R4.

330jetstar

How well does a 200r4 bolt up same thing adapter plate. No floor modification? I would like overdrive.

Olds64

I'm not sure if you would have to modify the floor, but a 2004R would fit on a 330 without an adapter plate (as long as you found a 2004R with a BOP pattern or dual pattern bell housing).

I used to own a 64 98 with the Slim Jim Rotohydramtic transmission and if I bought another 64 I would definitely ditch the Slim Jim, even if it meant modifying the floor pan. It was a POS. As far as I know, the Jet away is a better transmission though.

joe_padavano

Unlike the 700R4, the 200-4R is nearly a bolt-in replacement for the Junkaway trans. The bellhousing bolt pattern is the same. The overall length is the same. The output shaft is the same. The existing driveshaft fits as-is. The two issues you will have are 1) trans crossmember location and 2) TV cable attachment.

The 200-4R uses the same crossmember location as does the TH400. Unfortunately, the TH400 was not offered in your 64, so the frame is not pre-drilled for this. If you have a hardtop with the open channel frame, simply bolt the crossmember to the trans mount to locate it on the lower frame leg and drill new holes as needed to mount it. If you have the boxed frame for a convertible or HD frame option, you will need to weld an extension to the existing tab for the crossmember.

The TV cable will likely require an aftermarket cable and carb arm. There are a lot of options out there. Be sure to adjust it properly to avoid trans problems later.

You'll also need to install a method for locking up the torque converter. Again. lots of aftermarket options here.

Olds64

I guess the Jet away doesn't have a good reputation like the Slim Jim. It would probably be difficult to find a shop that would be comfortable rebuilding it anyways. I know when I rebuilt the Slim Jim in my 64 98 the professor teaching the transmissions course I was taking and the proprietor of the local transmission shop were both dumb founded by it.

joe_padavano

The biggest problem I have with the JT is the 1.76:1 first gear. Even with the switch pitch converter, you still pay a penalty off the line, especially in a heavy car with a small motor like the J88. Even the TH350 swap gets you 2.52:1 off the line. The 200-4R has a 2.78:1 first and a 0.68 OD, so the best of both worlds.

330jetstar

Many questions here. What is a bop bolt pattern. what year 200r4 has the proper pattern. As well where or what car do I get the crossmember from. I have a 2 door hardtop.

joe_padavano

BOP = Buick, Olds, Pontiac, which used a different bellhousing bolt pattern than did Chevy (which is why the 700R4 won't bolt to an Olds motor without an adapter plate)

All 200-4Rs have the BOP bolt pattern. Most actually have dual-pattern cases.

Use the crossmember currently in your car. You just have to slide it backwards and drill new holes to secure it.

Olds64

Oops... wrong link. Joe was quicker than me.

This is the link I wanted:

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...i-learned.html

joe_padavano

Chevy on the left, BOP on the right:



Dual pattern "unisex" case"

330jetstar

Thank you for the picture. I would rather pick a bop then a universal. I might just leave my original transmission for now and start looking for a bop pattern pick up a proper converter and other parts I may need to do this swap. Sounds intriguing.

joe_padavano

Don't bet on it. The BOP-only versions of the 200-4R were only made at the very beginning of production. They are very rare and frankly, don't incorporate the improvements that were introduced over the production run. The unisex cases are what you will find, and frankly are a better choice.

TexasT

When looking for a 2004r you should know it does NOT have a removable tail like most "modern" trans. IT does have a large pan and should have a metal tag near the tail on the pass side with a painted on and a stamped string of characters to indicate what GM installed it in from the factory.

9f59ff58007aPanIdpic.jpg
Pan 5 in this pic

IMAG2835.jpg



I am fan of the AA code that came in a Cadillac. This unit with some simple upgrades during the over haul will be plenty for your 330 and should provide years of service.

As noted you need to decide what you will use to control the TV cable. This isn't optional and MUST be installed and adjusted correctly. When you pick up your Cadillac trans, go ahead and get the qjet, tv cable and all the brackets to install on your vehicle. Usually you can pull the arms off the qjet and put them on whatever carb you are using.

CHeck out www.tvmadeez.com for some tv valve and cable how to.

joe_padavano

Just be careful - the TH200 also does not have a removable tailhousing.

330jetstar

Thanks the last 2 posts helped a lot there's a local junkyard I will check out.

Firewalker

What about the constant pressure valve body eliminating the need, for the TV cable, as I understand it. Not sure how good they are, or if it would be a good idea for him.

olds 307 and 403

I would think the biggest problem with a constant pressure valve body would be harsh shifts at all times.

Firewalker

Well possibly, but I did some research and you still have to set the cable for the shift timing, so it of no real help on the eliminating cable part, and may cause problems on a street car. I know one of the things I love about mine, without one, is the fast but soft, at light and part throttle shifts.

joe_padavano

Why is this even a good idea for a street-driven trans? I can see using it for a drag car where all you care about are hard upshifts.

The throttle valve combines the functions of the vacuum modulator and the kickdown cable on the TH350. The vacuum modulator uses manifold vacuum as a gauge of engine load (high vacuum = closed throttle and low loads, low vacuum = W.O.T. and high loads). The TV cable senses throttle position directly instead. Both the vac modulator valve and the throttle valve vary internal line pressure in response to sensed engine load. Why do you want annoying bang shifts during light throttle acceleration - especially on a heavy car like a J88? All that will do is beat up the U-joints, the rear axle, and the passengers. Might as well add the annoying Flowmasters while you're at it.

Similarly, both the kickdown cable and the TV cable activate the kickdown hydraulic circuit when the throttle is fully opened. Eliminating the TV cable is a bad idea on a street car and frankly I suspect this whole constant pressure throttle valve was conceived for people who are incapable of properly adjusting the TV cable.

olds 307 and 403

My 2004R is almost soft under light throttle as well. Push the pedal, nice very quick shifts but not too harsh. A properly set up 2004R is the best of both worlds.

330jetstar

Is there a way to keep my column shift with the 200 4r or do I have to add an aftermarket shifter.

joe_padavano

The former D and L locations will now be OD and D. You won't be able to manually shift into S or L.

Firewalker

Most likely, especially if just wanting D, N, R and Park.

330jetstar

How could I keep my columns history with the linkage or is there something I can do with it cable.

Firewalker

They can't match up since your column uses and is spaced for one less gear. One less space, then what the 200r4 uses. I know for some factory floor shifts there are kits, with a new display to match it , but not sure about a new display for your column.

joe_padavano

The Jetstar 88 was only available with the two speed Jetaway trans, so the shift gate in the column is off by two gears. There is no easy way to correct this. Either live with not being able to manually shift into second and low, or completely disassemble the column and machine a new shift gate, or install an aftermarket column. The later model columns with OD shift gates won't work in your car, since the are all from newer vehicles with the larger diameter locking column.

Your stock linkage should work with the 200-4R, but the shift gate in the column is the problem.

330jetstar

That is good for me i don't need to manually shift.

330jetstar

I thought my friend had a 200 4r turns out it was a 700r4.

Olds64

The 700R4 is a good hot rod transmission. The lack of a BOP bell housing would be the biggest draw back. I know the 700R4 became the 4L60 and then the 4L60-E in the 1991-1996 B bodies. You can find these pretty easily with a dead transmission. Maybe because they all have high miles now and people like to drive them like a rental.

TexasT

To me the 700r4 is a truck trans. Extra low first to get heavy loads moving, then the big gap in the 1-2 shift. Not really the hot ticket for quick acceleration to drop your engine out of the peak torque of the rpm range.
It will need the drive shaft cut down, and the mentioned adapter to bolt it to a bopc engine.
Will it work? Sure, I had one in my turbo Regal from 89 until about four years ago. Why? Because I couldn't find a trans builder to put a 2004r together back then. The tech has come a long way since then and my 2004r has as crisp a shifts as when we assembled it four years ago.

Your car, and money so its up to the op to make the choice.

Firewalker

The 700r4 may have become a truck transmission, but it seems to be designed for the 305 Camaros of the mid 80s to get them going. I don't like the loss of power in those either going from 1st to second, but it depends on the engine as far as how much of a downside that is. In a big torque lighter car 455 it might not be very noticeable at all.

The 200r4 was popular with the Olds crowd mainly because it was more of a direct swap, for short tailed 400 cars, without a adapter plate or drive shaft swap, or cross-member change. All are big pluses and made it easier and cheaper.

The 700 might be fine for a stock type small Olds in a heavy car, and should beat the hell out of a 2 speed. For my app, I chose the 200r4 too, because it was easier, and I didn't really think I needed a deeper first gear than the 2.74 first of the 200r4, with my built 455 in a light vehicle.

But he already probably will have changes, with either one, and it is just a 330 in a big heavy car.

330jetstar

I'm not saying I'm going with the 700r4. We thought he had a 2004r but it wasn't. I Can't find one used on the Interweb cheap enough so I will do a junkyard hunt.

JohnnyBs68S

You need to use a Kugel shift linkage that provides and adjustable lever-arm ratio between the column and trans shift lever. The 200-4R trans lever swings a little larger angle than the Jetaway, so attaching the rod closer to the pivot at the trans lever gets you all gears w/ your stock column shifter. Then its just a matter of making sure the "gate" and neutral lockout switch at the column lines up w/ the P and N detents of the trans. This works great for me, I can shift into all gears, and it gets rid of the extra linkage pivot point that attaches to the frame and makes more room for headers. True, the markings on the dash beyond "D" are meaningless, but I just count the detents to know which gear I've selected.

Firewalker

http://www.shiftworks.com/kugel.htm

330jetstar

Which length?

JohnnyBs68S

Thanks for the link, Firewalker.

I used the KK02 in my '68 Cutlass.

Link to the thread on my swap FYI:

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-look-out.html

Firewalker

Your welcome.

330jetstar

Is this the right bolt pattern trans for my 330

200r4.jpg

svnt442

That is a dual bolt pattern bellhousing. You're good to go with that trans.