Grrrr My new dilema

[Olds luvr]

Ok here is my new issue...In August I noticed a weird tick from the engine and it was not consistant and really sounds like it is up front like the waterpump propeller or shaft was wabbling. The Carb needs rebuilt and idels a little rough. Thinking that the water pump was bad I pulled the belt just to see if the tick goes away as it is know upgraded. Does not sound like a rod knock but I am starting to fear the worst. I have found a local 71 motor with 2300 in reciepts that I am considering as a doner and have the orginal built over time with upgrades.

The motor was pulled last year inspected and painted then put back in as when I bought the car the owner stated it was rebuilt and when it was inspected it looked very good.

The dipstick tube broke on the install so I have to break the paint on the oil pan but this noise is weird..since the water pump was not spinning it rules out the water pump and fan clutch correct?

Sorry for the story...But any idea are welcome

[J-(Chicago)]

I had a crank counterweight hitting a bent dipstick before. Lucky for me I heard it while spinning it on the stand.

[joe_padavano]

A "tick" could be anything from a bad lifter to a worn rocker to a cracked or loose flexplate to a bearing. It's difficult to diagnose without hearing it. You may want to try getting a piece of heater hose to use as a stethoscope to try and isolate the noise.

I've had a lot of success removing broken dipstick tubes with a slide hammer. Get a sheet metal screw that fits tightly into the remains of the tube. Weld it head-to-head to a bolt that screws into the end of the slide hammer. Now screw the sheet metal screw into the stub of the tube and have at it with the slide hammer. So far, 100% success rate.

[Oldsmaniac]

A tick can also be from a slight exhaust leak.

[Olds luvr]

Thanks for the replies. I will pull the dipstick and see if that helps. As to the slide hammer approach the exhaust manifold will need to be pulled correct? or were you able to get it out without all the disassembly?

Is a motor out of a 71 that has receipts worth 500? Heads done new HEI and rebuilt carb but no papers for block work. I am temted to throw in a temp motor so I can still enjoy the convertible while having the numbers matching motor rebuilt with more of a performance package. I just hate to pull the motor as the engine compartment is looking pretty good. I will post some updated pics with the newly painted body colored ralleys and detailed compartment

[J-(Chicago)]

Originally Posted by joe_padavano

A "tick" could be anything from a bad lifter to a worn rocker to a cracked or loose flexplate to a bearing. It's difficult to diagnose without hearing it. You may want to try getting a piece of heater hose to use as a stethoscope to try and isolate the noise.

I've had a lot of success removing broken dipstick tubes with a slide hammer. Get a sheet metal screw that fits tightly into the remains of the tube. Weld it head-to-head to a bolt that screws into the end of the slide hammer. Now screw the sheet metal screw into the stub of the tube and have at it with the slide hammer. So far, 100% success rate.

That's a pretty good idea, Joe.
If there's any part of the remaining tube left, I grab and pinch it with diagonal cutters and hit the cutters upward with a hammer. I've done it twice in car before. Just pulled the starter out of the way.

[Olds luvr]

The tube on mine snapped flush with the block. So the started will have to be pulled? But what about the exhaust manifold?

Thanks!!!

[J-(Chicago)]

I'm not sure.... I have headers.
The only Olds I kept the manifolds on was my 307. Sorry, I wasn't thinking about that. If the tube is snapped off at the block, you won't be able to grip it with the diagonal cutters then.

[J-(Chicago)]

I'll dig through my pictures for a better perspective.

[f-85]

You can get the starter out without messing with the stock manifolds.

[J-(Chicago)]

Looks like you have to pull the manifold to re-install the dipstick in the correct position. It has a decent curve to the tube and will probably hang up

[joe_padavano]

You don't have to pull the starter, but it makes life easier. At least disconnect the battery cable so you don't accidentally short it out. The manifold will need to come off.

[Olds luvr]

Thanks guys...

So before I pursue buying this motor out of a 71 I will see if maybe this noise is an easy fix...if not what is a fair price for a 71 350 with a new HEI rebuilt carb and heads but no info on the bottom end...as I may just drop it in and enjoy the convertible while building the original

[Olds luvr]

Another question as I stated the noise seems to be upfront could it be the harmonic ballencer? do they wear out and make noise?

[f-85]

Can you take video of this? If we hear the noise we might be able to pin point it.

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by Olds luvr

Another question as I stated the noise seems to be upfront could it be the harmonic ballencer? do they wear out and make noise?

The balancer doesn't "wear out" so much as the rubber deteriorates. This results in the outer ring moving relative to the inner ring. I've seen the outer ring move back towards the front cover, where it can rub on the timing tab, causing a noise. This will be very obvious with only a cursory visual inspection.

[Olds luvr]

I like the video idea....I can do that and post it. I love having this site as an option to get ideas from other other olds enthusiasts......

[Olds luvr]

Ok lets see if this works. Here is the video file so you can hear the noise.

Thanks

[Olds luvr]

Ok I am having troubles uploading the video so i am looking into the best way to do it

[J-(Chicago)]

Try hosting the video on another site and posting the link.

[Bluevista]

Originally Posted by Oldsmaniac

A tick can also be from a slight exhaust leak.

x2
Those leaks sound just like bad lifters and rod knocks and are a pain to track down sometimes becuse they can move or stop and start depending on the manifold temperature.
I had a bolt back out and start rubbing the PS pump pulley once and it knocked loudly and made a grinding noise, was real hard to track down because it was totally hidden. I thought the engine was getting ready to do a death dance.

[Olds luvr]

Ok, Here is a link to a video with sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km_OvpWTSL8

Ideas??

[scrappie]

That really sounds like a water pump, Any coolant leakage?
I wonder if a warn timing chain can make that noise?

[don71]

After viewing your vid, and hearing "that" sound, it reminded me. I had a balancer bolt come loose once and the sound is quite similar. In my case, the balancer/dampner was wobbling and you could see it.

I would use Joes advice and use a stethoscope all around the area if you have'nt done so yet.

I really hope you find the cause.

If the balancer is slipping southbound in your northbound car, it will look like this. The ring should be flush with hub, not like the one in the photo.

[f-85]

Its hard to say. I watched the video 3 times. That doesnt sound good! Do you have a real oil pressure gauge? From the video it looks just like a dummy light. I would put a real oil pressure gauge on it and see what the oil pressure is. That would help rule out the rod knock. If its a spun bearing your oil pressure will be low. keep us updated on this one.

[citcapp]

Does not sound like an engine noise. Sounds more like water pump bearing is shot. Can you wiggle the fan blades, if you can sure sign the water pump is going out.

[f-85]

Originally Posted by citcapp

Does not sound like an engine noise. Sounds more like water pump bearing is shot. Can you wiggle the fan blades, if you can sure sign the water pump is going out.

Thats what i thought at first too. But he said he pulled the belt and the noise is still there. So it must be something else.

[J-(Chicago)]

Well lets just start going down the line. We'll just start checking them all off as we go.
Fan blades hitting
Metal on metal from bad motor mounts
radiator supports or other parts rattling
all pulley bolts
crank hitting dented pan
flex plate bolts
flex plate cover
torque convertor

alternator
PS pump
water pump -These 3 can all be individually diagnosed with smaller belts
fuel pump rod
oil slinger
bad balancer

[Bluevista]

That does sound like a water pump but if you took the belts off it couldn't be that the PS pump or fan blades? The first thing I would check is the fuel pump to see if the arms is rubbing inside or the pump is bad. If you pull the fuel pump you can also feel inside the hole with your finger to see if the chain is loose. If it isn't that I would pull the front apart and check the timing gears and chain (it isn't the original timing set is it?) for looseness or any evidence of rubbing. Sounds like somethings rattling around in there, I found chunks of junk from the original gear covering in mine.

[Olds luvr]

Here is a question...After I had the motor painted I had a friends shop install all new brake lines hard and soft and wheel cylinders. I did notice that there is a small dent in the freshly painted oil pan where one of the techs had hit it with somthing. How bad of a dent in the pan would it take to have the crank hit it?

I will check for any slop in the balancer and fan and waterpump. I do feel better that there are alot of you saying it does not sound motor related as we all feel the pressure from the economy and I do not want to deal with that but also knoow it is not ruled out yet.

i did losen the HEI and played with it to see if the noise was timing related and it was not.

I also do not think that the noise increases as the motor revs but would have to play more as it is harder to hear.

Would another video with the motor revving be any help...

I also just want to say that you all and the forums is so appreciated and it is too bad that we all cant sit and have a beer as I would love to hear all the stories....

[f-85]

Try another video with all the belts off. It might help us figure it out, without all the other noises.


Josh

[Olds luvr]

Ok Maybe I just found it as the harmonic ballancer has a nice wabble and even worse if you wabble the bottom pulley and guess what..almost the same noise when you wiggle it by hand....I will have to make room to see if the bolt is loose or not. Can the ballencers wear out and wabble?

[J-(Chicago)]

Originally Posted by Olds luvr

How bad of a dent in the pan would it take to have the crank hit it?


....

I'd say about 1/4''-3/8'' dent

Especially on the rear side of the pan, the crank is pretty close to the sheetmetal in the back.

I could go for a beer right now lol. We got hit with 4'' of snow, and I just got done shoveling.

[f-85]

Its probably the bolts on the pulley. i doubt the balancer can be that loose. Check the bolts for the pulley first. Good luck i hope thats it!


Jeremy

Come on by. Im planning on pulling the motor out of Steves new truck.

[J-(Chicago)]

Originally Posted by f-85

Its probably the bolts on the pulley. i doubt the balancer can be that loose. Check the bolts for the pulley first. Good luck i hope thats it!

Jeremy

Come on by. Im planning on pulling the motor out of Steves new truck.

I gotta go pick up a set of curb kickers and some tire chains for your driveway first. I know you slackers didn't shovel all that mess.
Picking up some rusty old $20 headers from a guy in Westmont around 7. Call you after.

If I find enough of these for cheap, I can make the MedusaMobile!! Snakes upon snakes coming out of every panel LOL.

[f-85]

Originally Posted by J-(Chicago)

I gotta go pick up a set of curb kickers and some tire chains for your driveway first. I know you slackers didn't shovel all that mess.
Picking up some rusty old $20 headers from a guy in Westmont around 7. Call you after.

If I find enough of these for cheap, I can make the MedusaMobile!! Snakes upon snakes coming out of every panel LOL.

Jeremy

The driveway is done. Did you forget Dan has a 8.5' plow? No chains needed. Give me a call.

[Olds luvr]

Ok, So my compressor decided to stop working but I think the shear pin (key) for the harmonic ballencer is broke as there is a ton on play in it both left to right and front and back.

Anyone else had this problem and what causes it? I was hoping to get the ballencer off with the compressor but looks like I will need to remove the inspection cover and wedge a pry bar unless there is another trick....

[GoodOldsGuy]

Originally Posted by Olds luvr

The tube on mine snapped flush with the block. So the started will have to be pulled? But what about the exhaust manifold?

Thanks!!!

With your manifold off, try a tap of the appropriate size and tap into the broken opening just enough to get a good bite but not deep enough to expand the tube against the block. Then take a small vise grip and attach to vise. Then take a very small hammer and gently tap up on the vise grip until the tube comes out of the block. This has worked very well for me on quite a few occaisions. Good Luck.

GOG

[f-85]

Originally Posted by Olds luvr

Ok, So my compressor decided to stop working but I think the shear pin (key) for the harmonic ballencer is broke as there is a ton on play in it both left to right and front and back.

Anyone else had this problem and what causes it? I was hoping to get the ballencer off with the compressor but looks like I will need to remove the inspection cover and wedge a pry bar unless there is another trick....

Just go to autozone and rent a balancer puller.

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by Olds luvr

Ok, So my compressor decided to stop working but I think the shear pin (key) for the harmonic ballencer is broke as there is a ton on play in it both left to right and front and back.

Anyone else had this problem and what causes it? I was hoping to get the ballencer off with the compressor but looks like I will need to remove the inspection cover and wedge a pry bar unless there is another trick....

Go back and look at post #24 above. This was already suggested as a potential problem. The balancer is made of two pieces. There is an inner hub and the outer ring. A layer of rubber is between them. The rubber deteriorates and the outer ring can come loose.