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Im going to just go to a holley street dominator , Im not welding the heads or filling the divider . I decided against that to put money towards the 1.7 rockers. which i will only be buying 8. im running 1.6 full rollers on the exhaust and 1.72's on the intake. I might advance the cam. i guess. I know my buddy had been telling me he can set me up with a spiffy split timing cover so i can make changes and i might just do it lol. I have also been told my cam might be a bit big. I decided to go as big as i could when i picked that cam and now im thinking i could have gone with something smaller. At this point i wanna maximize what i have with out making maor changes so to speak. I am trapping closer to 6k rpm.
The 1,7's may react like you put in a slightly LARGER camshaft as compared to a 1.6. Take your buddy up on that split timing cover!! If you want to unload the Performer RPM, I might want to make a deal with you on it. If you want to keep it, I understand.
The problem is it has been milled to fit the heads. I would let it go cheap but its almost married to the heads at this point. I did do the math and with a 1.7 and i would end up with 544 lift vs the. 522 lift i have on the intake.
The extra lift is good for HP, but the extra rocker ratio actuates the valve just that much quicker, and might hurt bottom end torque- Another compromise (which it always is). Also why I am not talking about carb spacer height at this point (more spacer height=more plenum volume which aids top end charge). The video's seemed like the car was lighter from the hole, and had good top end charge. No matter what, I would get some sheet stock (like steel ducting,.050 thick or so) just to block off the heat riser on the head side, and use a Fel-pro paper gasket. It will squish into the paper gasket and seal off the riser.
How much did you mill the manifold??????
That i dont know. rocket racing did these heads 6 years ago and when the maifold did not fit i had them do it so what ever the formula was they figured it out and did it . I had the heads milled .024 i wanna say they milled .120 on each side. i assume they took into consideration the 060 intake gaskets. I am thinking of making a steel ingot and spot welding it into the exhaust riser. I know for a fact on my 12.63 pass the engine was not near 145 temp wise. i sat in the staging lanes for 2 hrs while they cleaned up oil and i was up first in line. So that tells me i need cooler under hood temps .
Last edited by coppercutlass; October 25th, 2015 at 07:29 PM.
.120 is a bunch, if it is less than .030, I am interested in it.
.024 cut on the heads is not that much, I cut the #5 heads that are on my 403 (stock deck) .030 and had no issue using a factory aluminum manifold on it with .060 paper gaskets (edit). I'll bet you a dollar it is under .030", LOL. Best to check with them if you can.
Anyway, keep it up, gotta go.
Best thread on CO that I have seen in awhile.
Jim
Last edited by Warhead; October 25th, 2015 at 07:40 PM.
well after much self debate . i decided to keep it simple. Im gonna do full rollers just 1.6 . I dont feel like pulling the heads or the engine out . The heads would have had to come out to cut the guide had i gone to a 1.72. I am swaping to the street dominator intake , im doing a ram air set up , a fuel cool can and i think possibly a fiberglass hood and deck lid. I need a new decklid anyway and i have a fiberglass hood i need to modify for my needs.
Now I happened to hurt the rear end ( i think ) and since im starting to get tired of swapping tires at the track im thinking of going with a 3.90 gear and keeping the 275 60 15's in the rear. I plan on getting the nitto 555 . I have driven the car around on drag radials which my current ones are a 275 50 15 so that roughly puts my gear around a 3.90 ish range. plus based on the calculation i will only be 100 more rpm @ 55 mph. since im gonna have the rear end fixed i may just swap the gear out. This is part of the reason im not gonna do some of the mods i wanted the rear end will eat a big chunk of my project fund . That is if i need a new gear set it all comes down to need vs want vs.cost.
well after much self debate . i decided to keep it simple. Im gonna do full rollers just 1.6 . I dont feel like pulling the heads or the engine out . The heads would have had to come out to cut the guide had i gone to a 1.72. I am swaping to the street dominator intake , im doing a ram air set up , a fuel cool can and i think possibly a fiberglass hood and deck lid. I need a new decklid anyway and i have a fiberglass hood i need to modify for my needs.
Now I happened to hurt the rear end ( i think ) and since im starting to get tired of swapping tires at the track im thinking of going with a 3.90 gear and keeping the 275 60 15's in the rear. I plan on getting the nitto 555 . I have driven the car around on drag radials which my current ones are a 275 50 15 so that roughly puts my gear around a 3.90 ish range. plus based on the calculation i will only be 100 more rpm @ 55 mph. since im gonna have the rear end fixed i may just swap the gear out. This is part of the reason im not gonna do some of the mods i wanted the rear end will eat a big chunk of my project fund . That is if i need a new gear set it all comes down to need vs want vs.cost.
You have done a nice job with this project. Couple of things;
Are you running a GM rear? If so, not certain, but IIRC, your rear choices are 4.10 and 3.73
Skip the cool can, tests have proven it ineffective and will fail tech at some tracks.
Just my opinion, but M/Ts are the superior drag radial.
As to the intake swap, do it and see what happens, but keep the old one until you see how it shakes out.
Ram air, I am not a fan of true "ram air" it can cause some issues. However, a BIG fan of OAI (outside air induction). I have a Ram Air Box shell if you want it, just pay for the ride. I ran my through the high beams.
Thanks jim. I have the 8.5 corprate rear. I just installed a 3.90 in my buddies truck not too long ago. I'm having mine done as I had it done 6 years ago and the posi needs a rebuild and that's out of my skill range. For the fuel cool can I'm intrested to see what it does. I found my fastest run the engine temps where not even near 140. I spent 2 hrs in the staging lanes while they cleaned oil off the whole track. The ram air set up is strictly for fresh air "cooler" . I plan on making my own set up from a 3 inch steel band inside your common air clearner with 4 inch oval exhaust as the inlets. I don't like what's available in the market for them so I'm gonna make something that looks cool and cheaper lol. I plan on using the air snorkle tubes from the early w31's with the chrome bezzles in the light. I do also plan on doing relocation brakets in the rear and possible adjustable uppers. I need the chassis to react alittle faster. Rear set up is stock with an air bag in the right rear and my own homae made boxed lowers.
Thanks jim. I have the 8.5 corprate rear. I just installed a 3.90 in my buddies truck not too long ago. I'm having mine done as I had it done 6 years ago and the posi needs a rebuild and that's out of my skill range. For the fuel cool can I'm intrested to see what it does. I found my fastest run the engine temps where not even near 140. I spent 2 hrs in the staging lanes while they cleaned oil off the whole track. The ram air set up is strictly for fresh air "cooler" . I plan on making my own set up from a 3 inch steel band inside your common air clearner with 4 inch oval exhaust as the inlets. I don't like what's available in the market for them so I'm gonna make something that looks cool and cheaper lol. I plan on using the air snorkle tubes from the early w31's with the chrome bezzles in the light. I do also plan on doing relocation brakets in the rear and possible adjustable uppers. I need the chassis to react alittle faster. Rear set up is stock with an air bag in the right rear and my own homae made boxed lowers.
Funny, I can't find a 3.90 option for a GM 8.5" rear? Must be looking in the wrong place. I had UMI adjustable uppers on the rear, VERY nice pieces for not a lot of money, lock down the pinion angle. IMO, the cool can just does not work, underhood temps will determine fuel temp, what little the cool can does will be quickly undermined. Again IMO, but a tiny shot of N2O will cool the charge down a LOT And add HP and TQ
I'm currently running a 3.90 gear with 275/60R15 BFG Drag Radials and am very happy with the combination (except when I want to drive 90 mph on the highway). Traction and 60' time are much improved over the previous combination of 3.23 gear and 275/50R15 BFG Drag Radials. Even though the 60-series BFG is narrower than the 50-series and lacking the wide "slick" center section, I think the taller sidewall really helps. The combination does require me to do a 2nd-gear burn-out, however, to get enough tire speed.
Jim I plan on doing a cowl hood just to get hot air out in some form. I made a fuel cool can and have a neat idea where I might pass tech with it. I also plan on doing a heatsheild for the carb. Just little crap like that. I know from lots of reading of old stock class nhra racing guys did all those dumb little things. I'm willing to give it a shot. Black gold as for the tires I'm sold on the nitto's mainly for the tread as they are more rain freindly that the m\t. I haveheard good about the nittos and the price is nice.
Jim I plan on doing a cowl hood just to get hot air out in some form. I made a fuel cool can and have a neat idea where I might pass tech with it. I also plan on doing a heatsheild for the carb. Just little crap like that. I know from lots of reading of old stock class nhra racing guys did all those dumb little things. I'm willing to give it a shot. Black gold as for the tires I'm sold on the nitto's mainly for the tread as they are more rain freindly that the m\t. I haveheard good about the nittos and the price is nice.
Nittos are junk. M/Ts are by far worth the extra money. Don't cheap out on tires. I watched a guy in street class who dominated have a crap year because he went to Nittos. He went back to winning championships after he canned that experiment.
I currently run a half inch spacer under the carb. Don the nittos I have been wanting to try as I have seen guys do well with them . I still have my m\t which should squeeze out some runs. They are a 275-50-15. The nittos offer a full tread pattern which the m/t's don't and I have been caught in the rain and crashed because of it . So the nittos are an effort to stop swapping tires yet maintain a decent sticky tire with a tread pattern. For the price its worth the shot.
Well today was nice and i decided to finally add my new roller rockers , and finally installed the correct 8.4 pushrods . Off the bat i noticed a much smoother idle and the idle actually went up in rpm a little bit. The engine is pretty damn quiet now and revs up a little faster. Im sure it will free up a little hp and help the engine spin a little faster. My valve stem tip pattern was damn near perfect not bad for a ford rocker.
Jim I plan on doing a cowl hood just to get hot air out in some form. I made a fuel cool can and have a neat idea where I might pass tech with it. I also plan on doing a heatsheild for the carb. Just little crap like that. I know from lots of reading of old stock class nhra racing guys did all those dumb little things.
These guys were damn bright, and knew how to make power.
Anything you can do to insulate the cooler fuel and their componets, from the scalding
heat soaked prop driven air underhood will only help you, IMHO.
Like what you're doing.
Last edited by Warhead; December 6th, 2015 at 06:45 AM.
These guys were damn bright, and knew how to make power.
Anything you can do to insulate the cooler fuel and their componets, from the scalding
heat soaked prop driven air underhood will only help you, IMHO.
Like what you're doing.
Clean, cool air; absolutely! I just have seen data that suggests that cool cans don't work. Also, there can be issues with failing tech, some tracks don't like them.
Jim i plan insulating my fuel lines and possibly redoing them for this purpose . My idea for a fuel cool can was taking a coffee can and insulating it with foam wrapping my fuel lines in it and sealing any voids. Now here is my idea. My girlfriend worked in the medical field for a few years and the ice pack gel solution can be made at home. I want to make essentially a formed sealed unit to drop in the coffee can that can be pre frozen . The foam will catch what ever moisture is created from condensation and the foam will keep it cooler and the sealed unit can be re used over and over again and no ice needed and no water to spill from the ice that thaws.
Ok so i just picked up the rear end . I went with a 3.90 gear as mentioned before. Im about to order some springs and a quick change cover for the vacuum secondaries, along with a heat sheild for the carb , and im gonna start building my ram air set up. I have decided to go against the fuel cool can. I am thinking of adding an MSD box . I decided against the intake swap after some input i got. For the rear im gonna use an old set of lakewood traction action bars for coil cars. The slapper bar style. I have them and it wont hurt to try em out.
Just a little update on this. SO we took the car out a few weeks ago and it was hot mid 80's super humid Just not ideal conditions at all. The only changes i made was The roller rockers , and rear end gear change and a tune up.
The car ran a best of a 12.77 @ 105.5 mph we did see a 60 ft. that finally dipped under the 1.8 area. The carb had a stumble all day too. I think once i get some better weather and loose the carb stumble i think i can make a 12.4 reality in good weather. I also have a torque converter im going to possible install. Its a 3400 stall ., well it was 3400 behind a bbo so 3200 probably on mine. Planning on hitting the track again soon. Just thought i would follow this up.
I also went runner up for the BOP race. Small class but it was nice to go a few rounds and not load up after the first round of eliminations .
Last edited by coppercutlass; July 10th, 2016 at 03:58 PM.
have you ever looked into a SNOW performance methanol injection or similar...
i notice on most of your posts you talk about hot underhood temps...you can build one for cheap and use wiper fluid...it does wonders...it really does..and can be cheap....it aint just for turbos..it cools the intake charge..a bunch
I never thought about that I will have to do some studying. For bracket racing I would much rather just run it as it is . I'm thinking of just cutting a hole in the hood and use one of the stage 2 scoops like the old bucks had. Then just add vents at the rear of the hood. That's half my battle with engine heat. No way to get out.
look at VFN for one of the oversized super duty scoops..better looking...bigger..
just trying to give new idea..i'm not a race car guy ..just helping a fellow olds guy out..i used meth injection thru most of the 80s on muscle cars
the meth injection works on a hobbs switch or an rpm or a micro on the carb...you fill the tank and forget about it..very easy..very cheap..huge benifits..we used it in the 80s for hi comp motors and p!ss for gas....easy to hide...how can it not be an option on a bracket car..see below//goes before the throttle blades
The Science of Water Injection
gas water-methanol injection kits produce a finely atomized mixture that's injected into the combustion chamber at precise times. The water enters the combustion chamber and decreases the inlet air temperature by up to 100 degrees more than any air to air intercooler. One of the highest octane fuels on the planet, methanol, enters the combustion chamber and spikes the effective octane of the fuel you are using by 25 points. Combine the two together and you now have one of the coldest air charges possible and a octane monster running race gas!
The Chemical Intercooler
water-meth kit will lower IATs up to 100 degrees instantly! Increasing performance and giving you the most from your vehicle
Octane Monster!
Octane! Octane! Octane! When injecting a 50/50 mix of water-methanol the effective octane of your fuel will increase 25 points! Turning 91 octane pump gas to 116 Race Gas Quality fuel!
Detonation Control & Safety
Because your vehicle now has much colder IATs and impressive octane you can increase boot and ignition timing for HP gains of up to 20%! Or add it on top of high octane fuel/E85 for significantly cooler IATs and added safety.
Last edited by marxjunk; July 11th, 2016 at 11:24 AM.
For a bracket car it might create inconsistencies really anything can. For fast e/t's i would do it. Im intrigued by this now. I might have to just give it a shot.
Last edited by coppercutlass; July 11th, 2016 at 04:20 PM.
i used the old school nozzle type but its advanced so far its come into its own...
i dont think it will be inconsistent..use to be it was on or off..now it can be controlled
it interests me a bunch with all the new control capabilities etc..Snow is what you want of you can justify the cost..way ahead of everyone else..huge in the turbo world..i mean huge
It will benefit my next engine it's a 500 dollar kit. I was looking at the snow kit. I also saw a video where they gained 6 hp but with no timing advance from what I saw. So the potential to make more hp is there. Next engine will have 10.25 to 1 compression and I almost thought about e85 but this seems like an even better solution to safely run my compression on even 87 octane. From what I was reading it can bump octane upto 25 points.
UPDATE !!!! Went 12.55 @ 106.35 mph. The changes i did was I added a rear sway bar , engine limiter strap , Went to a 750 double pumper holley , I also finally tried out the new nitto extreme drag 555R. They hooked very well. I think this bad puppy has a 12.4 in it yet with cooler weather. It was about 80 degrees on the track today. Might also go with the 3400 stall converter i have. Dunno yet.
Get an AFR meter from someone like Innovate Motorsports, so you can constantly tune your carb! Until you get the fuel mixture correct, you'll stumble and lose time.
I'd also recommend a better distributor. You bough the cheapest Chinese made watch and expect it to keep time? Go MSD. The Ready-to-Run series is solid. Their HEI is good as well. You need consistent spark to be able to tune fuel mixture repetitively.
Idk the proform unit has been reliably performing for 8 years now. Right now the carb is actually pretty good. The whole objective wi th my build was low buck , sweet and simple kind of fool proof for anyone else to kind of use as guide for a 12 sec. Combo.
Roller rockers where free carb was a trade and the converter I bought for 190 on ebay. The 3400 I recently bought from a buddy for 200. I'm not saying I'm not gonna tune the carb but I'm going to go off the mph at the track . The distributor is good enough IMHO so if it ain't broke I ain't changing it. By low buck I mean I have less than 6k into my whole set up engine trans and diff.
Last edited by coppercutlass; September 21st, 2016 at 01:39 PM.
I guess I mistook "what can I do for cheap" to mean "what are the next logical steps to make the car go faster." Tuning the carb is cheap. Very cheap, and worth a LOT of time. Apparently you want easy and cheap? Buy an AFR tuning aid like this: https://www.amazon.com/Innovate-Moto...words=innovate
It will save you time and money in the long run. And it'll make you go faster, and it can be moved from car to car in the future. And your engine will last longer if its in better tune - less pounded rod bearings, less washed cylinder walls, significantly improved 0-60 times.
October 25th, 2015, 06:47 PM
Couple of things; 
