MDchanic

Yes, the engine has to come up a few inches so that it can move forward, then it should come right apart.

Sorry for the delay - was installing a caliper on my boy's Cherokee.

- Eric

Macadoo

Okay, to recap the events of the day:
1. I began by attaching the engine sling to the front right (accessory holes) and rear left (holes I assume are for lifting) of the engine. Then we built the hoist. It was a knockdown and assembled quite easily. I then pulled the last two bell housing screws and the motor mount bolts, which slid out very easily. We then let the car down off the jack and stands.
2. I hooked the hoist to the sling and took up the slack.
3. Now this is where my inexperience cost me a couple of hours. I began pumping on the hoist and it seemed the car was raising so I lowered it back down. We then laid under the car for a good hour, on and off, trying to pry the bell housing off the block pins, all the while posting to this forum and getting help from some pretty awesome people. I didn't realize the car raising was the springs unloading but once Mdchanic told me this, things went pretty smoothly.
4.So I went back to pumping on the hoist and finally the motor mounts gave way. My daughter jiggled the hoist forward and back and I was working the chains, just twisting and pulling and finally the motor popped off.

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5.Then it was a matter of raising the motor [what seemed like] really freaking high in order to clear the front end. Maggie pumped the hoist while I steadied the motor.

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6.Next, since we had very little room, we pushed the car half out of the shop. So the motor stayed in place, hanging in the air, while we pushed the car out from under.

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7.We then lowered the engine to a milk crate to steady it while I unbolted the flex plate. I used a wrench and tapped it with a hammer so as not to torque against the hanging mechanism. The bolts came right off.
8.Then we bolted the holding mechanism for the stand onto the bell housing attachment area of the block using the two top and two bottom holes. We used grade 8 bolts and a whole crapload of washers. I believe it was two washers on the three screws that could go all the way through the block and six on the one screw that didn't go all the way through. Then we raised the motor to about two foot above the floor.
9.The hoist rolled pretty easily over to the engine stand where we raised the motor until it was just a little higher than the stand and pushed it on.

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10.The hoist was gently lowered until the sling went slack. I unhooked the sling from the hoist and unbolted it from the block.
11.Then we just simply rolled the stand to it's spot in the shop, broke down the hoist and tossed it in my truck, and rolled the car back into the shop.

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Thanks to everyone on this forum and especially to Eric for helping out and making this possible. I'm a decent mechanic but I never would have thought I was capable of this.
Now the fun begins

MDchanic

If you want fun, just wait until you have to put it back in!

I'm glad you got it. You may not realize it, but that engine is exceptionally clean.
When you're covered with grease spatter, scrubbing it with a brush, you won't be thinking so, but it's true.

Make sure you give the young lady a beer for her trouble, and for Heaven's sake get those sheets and towels into the laundry before your wife realizes you raided the linen closet!

- Eric

Tony72Cutlass'S'

It's.... it's so beautiful.

i love engines

oldstata

Great job !!
You don't want to see my garage right now every time I clean it it looks worse then when I started lol

And I have lifted several 455 by a chain running from left front head to right rear head not the best but it works

Don't know if I missed it but are you putting a big block in ir having the small block gone through

Macadoo

Geez Eric, one panic attack at time! I really don't want to think about it going back in just yet.
And BTW, I didn't raid the wife's linens...but I have been known to unintentionally ruin a bath towel (or two) that would make exceptionally good shop rags
The young lady not only got a bear but pub pizza

Macadoo

LOL!
Hey Tony, I made the write up for you, since you'll be doing it this winter, yes? I hope it was a little helpful.

MDchanic

Never did develop a test for them myself, but some of my Northern brethren have told me that they can be quite tasty.

Either way, doubt I could polish off a whole one in a sitting.

- Eric

oldcutlass

Well done Mac and daughter, so now whats the plan?

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Thanks! I was pretty worried but this seems to be doable.

I'm hoping my buddy will have a cleared out garage so we can work on it over the winter.

don71

These is good times! I'd say you had a good day.

Some of my favorite car moments are like this. While enjoying this thread, I must say, it takes me back a few years.

The only thing better is NED..New Engine Day. Driving it round the block for the first time is awesome too.

Anyways, keep at it.

Macadoo

I don't have anything to compare this to since it was my first pull but i didn't find the two chain sling bad at all. Maybe I just got lucky but it seemed really stable. I didn't like the idea of loading all that weight onto two bolts instead of three or four but it worked out okay. But I did have the foresight to pick up some grade 8 bolts for the sling as a just-in-case.

As for the "why" I pulled it: The poor thing is bleeding to death, leaking from everywhere, oil pan, valve covers, rear seal ( I think) and I got inconsistent compression readings so i think I'm having some valve issues. So I'll replace all the gaskets and seals, pull the heads and at least lap the valves and replace the springs and seals, and I had CutlassEFI grind me a cam to match the performer intake and the planned dual exhaust. And I picked up an HEI distributor just for good measure. Plus, I want to clean it and paint it. and I'll yank off the exhaust manifolds and clean them up too. They looked kind of nasty, even on the inside
So I think that's pretty much my winter. By next summer I want to be getting to the breaks and wheels/tires. Then the body work begins.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

How do you lap valves? I've seen a sort of suction cup-tool for sale but i've no idea how to do it.

I want to re-gasket my engine too, but i'm not sure if i should just throw in some new piston rings and clevite main bearing (i hear clevite make awesome bearings).

Macadoo

My short block seemed okay. Adding oil to the cylinders for the compression test didn't really change the readings, which is why I'm thinking valves and/or valve springs.
I think Clevite had been making bearings for a VERY long time but I'm fer sure no expert. Lapping valves is pretty easy to do, although I haven't done it in years. It just takes a lot of time and some of the ol' elbow grease. Youtube it, there are a lot of videos on it. Some use a power drill but I don't think it's wise, especially for the inexperienced like us.
My biggest fear in removing the heads is accidentally introducing some debris into the cylinders.
I dunno, is it dumb to go this far and not replace the main bearings and rings?

Tony72Cutlass'S'

I dunno about the Might as well's, but if the engine is out and you're already replacing the rear main seal and such, pulling the crank and pistons out and throwing in new rings can't be THAT much harder?

I speak from ZERO experience with installing crankshafts and piston rings.. but if i had my engine out, i'd wanna try to do it..

MDchanic

If you haven't been using oil, the bores look great, and there's only a small ridge, then you may not need rings.

You'll have to see what it looks like and work it from there...

- Eric

don71

Lapping valves is something I don't hear discussed much anymore. In the old days we all did this. From lawn mowers to flat heads.

My understanding is if your are grinding valve seats and valves with stones you need to lap.
If the seats and valves are cut with a machine tool, no lapping required.

If I were on a budget and using the (used) parts I have, then I would lap them. Form this standpoint I certainly understand this.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Eric,

Lets say an engine runs great and the bores look great.

Is it stupid to assume my engine doesn't need to be machined? Can you just throw a new set of rings in without having to worry?

Also, what ridge are you talking about.

Macadoo

I think replacing the main bearings is trickier than most people think. It has to be done just right and I think mine are fine. Rings are a little easier but you have to be careful to get the ring of carbon deposited on the top of the cylinder wall off. Now we're talking about getting the block hot-tanked, the crank checked for round, etc, etc.
Nope, I'm good with just cleaning up the heads and replacing the gaskets.
Or I'm just an idiot. They're both good choices

MDchanic

If you change the rings you have to hone the bore or the new rings won't seat.

If you've got a set of rings that are in good shape and well broken in to start with, you may end up worse than you were before.

The ridge is just that: As the piston and rings move up and down in the bore, stopping at the top to reverse direction, millions of times, they wear metal off of the bore. The area of greatest wear is at the top. As the engine is used, the missing material begins to be noticeable, resulting in a ridge at the very top of where the rings hit TDC. Above the ridge is virgin cylinder wall that's never been touched by the rings. Below the ridge is the area of maximum cylinder wear. The rings are mated to the location of the ridge. Using new rings without removing the ridge will result in the rings hitting the ridge, breaking both the rings and the ring lands on the pistons.

- Eric

don71

If it works don't fix it.

oldcutlass

My view point is if your going to tear it apart and it's already out of the car, you might as well just haul it over to a machine shop and do it right. Yes, you can probably throw a new set of inserts in and it may be just fine, but then again it may not. An inexpensive jobber valve job is under $300.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Wow, makes complete sense.

I dont know why i figured the piston used up the whole stroke of the cylinder.

This makes me want to leave my engine put and maybe slap a couple coats of Olds-Gold on it to make me feel better.

MDchanic

The gist is that there are a few things you can do to the engine without changing anything else, but once you start doing some of this other stuff, it's all up for grabs, so it's go a few inches, or go the whole nine yards.

- Eric

Macadoo

Oh, no bud light for this guy. It's MooseHead or Yinling or nothing. But to be honest, I go through a six pack about every six months, I just have one every now and then. But if I'm feeling really wild, I'll have two.....and then fall asleep.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

You guys should have come to Oktoberfest at the breweries in Montreal last weekend, those german girls can carry 6 litres at once.

MDchanic

Where?

- Eric

Macadoo

Lol! Exactly what I was wondering.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Like this,



I was at the McAuslin brewery, owned by saint ambroise. I think they sell a pumpkin spice ale down in Maine.

Macadoo

Tony, I didn't realize you are from Canada. I didn't notice an accent, eh?

Macadoo

Exactly NOT what I was thinking

coppercutlass

All those beers cover up too much

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Totally eh, born and raised.

I do work in seattle for 3-4 a few months of the year when we get a contract out there. You guys have awesome microbreweries.

I bought my cutlass 5 years ago when i was 21 and it's been a huge learning experience. From timing chains to bodywork and suspension work.

I wouldnt trade this car for the world.

Macadoo

Inserts?

MDchanic

Wow. That's hot. Strong girl. Strong beer. What else could you ask for?

- Eric

MDchanic

Bearing shells.

- Eric

coppercutlass

I think by inserts he means bearings and rings. Wear items.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

That better?

coppercutlass

I can drink to that. CHEERS! Bottoms up boys.

MDchanic

Now THAT's good beer.

- Eric