350 or 403 ???

69sAndrew · 02-08-2008, 09:58 AM

Hi I just purchased a 69 olds cutlass HT and I thought it was the original 350, but I had a mechanic over at the shop where she is being stripped and he said it looked like a 403. Is there a way to tell just by looking, or do I have to get a block number? The vin tells me it is an original 350 car so I am going with that.

Here is the only pic I have of it right now.

Thanks for any input guys

Olds64 · 02-08-2008, 10:00 AM

As far as I know there is no external difference between any of the SBO engines. You will have to check the casting numbers on the block to be sure. There are plenty of guys on the website that can let you know what you have.

The_Jeremiah · 02-08-2008, 12:01 PM

i wouldnt be surprised if thats a 403, like olds64 said there is no external difference, however the entire engine looks to be painted black, which implies the whole engine has been pulled and either rebuilt, or repainted lol. so definently pick up a manual and check those numbers.

g-bodycutlass · 02-08-2008, 12:13 PM

It should have 403 stamped on the block I cant remember what side it's on, but any 403 i've had it's been stamped on the block.

J-(Chicago) · 02-08-2008, 12:27 PM

what's the number above the water pump next to the oil tube say???

Olds64 · 02-08-2008, 05:01 PM

307s were black from the factory.

BTW, that is a nice looking engine.

69sAndrew · 02-09-2008, 09:06 AM

Thanks for all the replies. I am heading over to the shop on Sunday, so I will get all the numbers I cn off the beast, I'll get the head numbers if I can too.

I'll try to get some pics of the progress of the car too, it is quite far along in the rebuild, but the guy doing it is making me a photo album as well

Thanks again,

A

78cutlass · 02-10-2008, 12:39 AM

69sAndrews,
The block casting # of a '69 Olds 350 is 395558 2. The '69 Olds 350 came with the highly sought after #5 head. In other words, the heads have a #5 casting #. There were 3-different Olds 350 configurations offered in '69. They're as follows:

2-Barrel '69 Olds 350 - 250 HP / 355 TQ

4-Barrel '69 Olds 350 - 310 HP / 390 TQ

W-31 '69 Olds 350 - 325 HP / 360 TQ

69sAndrew · 02-24-2008, 10:22 AM

Ok here is what I found

Block nember is 395558 with a big 2 at the end
I saw this mean a 350 but not sure of anything else.

and the heads are 411829

Any info is appeciated.

Andrew

joe_padavano · 02-24-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69sAndrew

Ok here is what I found

Block nember is 395558 with a big 2 at the end
I saw this mean a 350 but not sure of anything else.

and the heads are 411829

Any info is appeciated.

Andrew

Check again, that head casting is probably 411929, which would be 1973-1976 #8 heads. I'm willing to bet the entire engine is a replacement from that vintage. Check the VIN derivative on the LH side of the block, just below the #1 spark plug. The second digit will be the year. 9=1969, 0=1970, 3=1973, etc.

69sAndrew · 02-24-2008, 03:08 PM

Well I found this chart which made me think it is an orriginal motor. Wish I knew for sure what it is. Been searching forever with google.

1 '64-'66 330 381917 45° cam bank angle.
1A 330 381917 45° cam bank angle.
2 '68-'76 350 381917
2 '68-'70 350 395558
3 '66-'67 330 394417 39° cam bank angle.
4
5 '73,'74 350 395558
2A '75-'81 260 Solid main webs for 2A's only? At least for '76.
2B ??-'81 260 557751 Windowed main webs. Windowed main webs for 2B's only?
3A '79 350
3B '77-'80 350 557752
4A '77 403 557265 Solid main webs possibly
553990 for these three
554990 casting numbers.
4B '77-'79 403 557265 Windowed main webs always.
?? '85 307 556607
5A '81- 307 3161
D3 350 7582 Diesel

J-(Chicago) · 02-24-2008, 03:20 PM

What Letter or number is stamped on the heads?

These are 7a Heads
Notice the big 7
and the little A

78cutlass · 02-24-2008, 04:24 PM

69sAndrew,
I think joe padavano's correct, they're probably #8 heads (smog heads / 79 cc). Get yourself a good set of #5, #7 or #7A heads. They're 64cc and flow alot better than the #8's. The block's fine though. It's a good high nickel block that'll make for a good build-up. It should be factory equipped with a nodular iron crankshaft.

joe_padavano · 02-24-2008, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69sAndrew

Well I found this chart which made me think it is an orriginal motor.

If you got that from the FAQ at 442.com, it's wrong. The same casting number was used for 68-76 350 blocks. As I noted above, the only way to tell the year is to check the VIN derivative stamping.

88 coupe · 02-25-2008, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 78cutlass

........ It's a good high nickel block ........

Myth: There is no known documentation regarding nickel content in Olds engines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 78cutlass

........ It should be factory equipped with a nodular iron crankshaft.

Myth: All iron Olds cranks were nodular iron.

Norm

Oldsguy · 02-25-2008, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88 coupe

Myth: All iron Olds cranks were nodular iron.Norm

As were most automotive cranks since the forties. Some information from Wikipedia can be wrong but this is correct. I have read many blacksmithing books that verify this information to be true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ductile_iron

69sAndrew · 02-25-2008, 09:35 AM

I do know about ductile, I used to work in a foundry and we made the break parts for otis elevators. They were and I believe, all ductile.

I'd still like to know what heads I have. I'll see if I can find a head number next til I go visit her

Andrew

joe_padavano · 02-25-2008, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69sAndrew

I do know about ductile, I used to work in a foundry and we made the break parts for otis elevators. They were and I believe, all ductile.

I'd still like to know what heads I have. I'll see if I can find a head number next til I go visit her

Andrew

Didn't we cover this in Post #10 above?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69sAndrew
Ok here is what I found

Block nember is 395558 with a big 2 at the end
I saw this mean a 350 but not sure of anything else.

and the heads are 411829

Any info is appeciated.

Andrew

Check again, that head casting is probably 411929, which would be 1973-1976 #8 heads. I'm willing to bet the entire engine is a replacement from that vintage. Check the VIN derivative on the LH side of the block, just below the #1 spark plug. The second digit will be the year. 9=1969, 0=1970, 3=1973, etc.
__________________
Joe Padavano

64 Jetstar 88 Conv
66 442 L-69 Conv
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30
72 442
86 Caprice wagon (w/307 Olds)

78cutlass · 03-03-2008, 03:56 AM

FACT: NORM'S ANNOYING (AKA: "88 COUPE")

captjim · 03-03-2008, 03:20 PM

Hey Mr. Smarty-pants, ever heard of a "contraction"? Can not, can't, did not, didn't, he is, he's, she is, she's, Norm is, Norm's. Here is a link to help you understand, http://www.ielanguages.com/esl/Apostrophes.pdf

" We have already had a thread on the site about Norm's posts, and he was NOT voted off the island."

This site gets minimal traffic in the small block forum, and on the site he was asked to leave, membership and traffic grow daily. Coincidence? Your call. As long as Norm is allowed to post in his "unique" style, it will stifle membership and participation, plain and simple. Guys get tired of being berated, insulted, and demeaned.

J-(Chicago) · 03-03-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captjim

Hey Mr. Smarty-pants, ever heard of a "contraction"? Can not, can't, did not, didn't, he is, he's, she is, she's, Norm is, Norm's. Here is a link to help you understand, http://www.ielanguages.com/esl/Apostrophes.pdf

Actually, that link DID help. Thanks for the clarification. I will delete my worthless post as to not waste anyone's time in the future.

Quote:

As long as Norm is allowed to post in his "unique" style, it will stifle membership and participation, plain and simple.

You may very well be correct about this also. I do know of several people having left this site because of him.

In my own opinion, there is no perfect solution on the internet to acquiring accurate information. I personally don't mind sifting through the "diarrhea'' to find the diamonds, and Norm provides accurate information. I've (contraction) surmised that it comes with the territory. As long as a person contributes more accurate information than over opinionated garble, I am fine with their presence on here.

If Norm was a machine, perhaps some tinkering and fine tuning would be in order to improve his accurate help/garble ratio, but he is not. He's (contraction) just a man with freedom of speech on here. I'm sure we all could improve our posts and hopefully, we do.

I do not personally know or "hang out" with anyone on this board, and I have no family or childhood friendship loyalty to anyone on it. Only respect for those who help more people more than they hurt.
AND...with this being a brain and keyboard participation only forum, no one ever REALLY gets hurt at all.

88 coupe · 03-04-2008, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captjim

........ and on the site he was asked to leave ........

Read the last post on the page.

http://www.oldspower.com/vb/showthre...417#post275417

Clearly it is my choice not to post on that site. Just as it is captjims choice to post inaccurate information, then to throw childish tantrums, when he gets his hand slapped.

I'm finished with the subject.

Norm

J-(Chicago) · 03-04-2008, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88 coupe

I'm finished with the subject.
Norm

Agreed.

Muaz · 03-04-2008, 11:14 PM

Hi, This post of mine is very knowledgable and may enhance the information of the viewers , however I would like some specific information for myself. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Best Regards,

78cutlass · 03-06-2008, 02:16 AM

captjim,
Hey buddy, thanks for the lesson in english. You're cool dude! Now, can we move on to important stuff, like OLDSMOBILE STUFF....

PS - captjim, you're scaring me - try "WOOSA"

78cutlass · 03-10-2008, 04:42 PM

captjim, sorry bud my message was intended for j-(chicago), the "English teacher". Hey j-(chicago), I promise I'll study harder. In the meantime, let's discuss O-L-D-S-M-O-B-I-L-E-S

02-08-2008, 09:58 AM	#1 (permalink)
69sAndrew 69 Cutlass S hardtop Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 42	350 or 403 ??? Hi I just purchased a 69 olds cutlass HT and I thought it was the original 350, but I had a mechanic over at the shop where she is being stripped and he said it looked like a 403. Is there a way to tell just by looking, or do I have to get a block number? The vin tells me it is an original 350 car so I am going with that. Here is the only pic I have of it right now. Thanks for any input guys

02-08-2008, 10:00 AM	#2 (permalink)
Olds64 Landyacht Club President Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lawton, OK Posts: 1,811	As far as I know there is no external difference between any of the SBO engines. You will have to check the casting numbers on the block to be sure. There are plenty of guys on the website that can let you know what you have. __________________ "Some men are Baptists, others Catholics. My father was an OLDSMOBILE man." Ralphie Billingsley A Christmas Story 1983 "We rei-eign, supreme, ooooh god! Burrito supreme, and a chicken supreme, and a CUTLASS SUPREME!" Tenacious D 2007

02-08-2008, 12:01 PM	#3 (permalink)
The_Jeremiah Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 248	i wouldnt be surprised if thats a 403, like olds64 said there is no external difference, however the entire engine looks to be painted black, which implies the whole engine has been pulled and either rebuilt, or repainted lol. so definently pick up a manual and check those numbers. __________________ 69 Cutlass 4 door. Built 350 inside, grandma's grocery getter outside. Best sleeper in disguise.

02-08-2008, 12:27 PM	#5 (permalink)
J-(Chicago) Seasoned beater pilot. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,650	what's the number above the water pump next to the oil tube say??? __________________ I'd rather have a numbers matching poker hand.

02-08-2008, 05:01 PM	#6 (permalink)
Olds64 Landyacht Club President Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lawton, OK Posts: 1,811	307s were black from the factory. BTW, that is a nice looking engine. __________________ "Some men are Baptists, others Catholics. My father was an OLDSMOBILE man." Ralphie Billingsley A Christmas Story 1983 "We rei-eign, supreme, ooooh god! Burrito supreme, and a chicken supreme, and a CUTLASS SUPREME!" Tenacious D 2007

02-08-2008, 12:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
g-bodycutlass Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1	It should have 403 stamped on the block I cant remember what side it's on, but any 403 i've had it's been stamped on the block.

02-09-2008, 09:06 AM	#7 (permalink)
69sAndrew 69 Cutlass S hardtop Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 42	Thanks for all the replies. I am heading over to the shop on Sunday, so I will get all the numbers I cn off the beast, I'll get the head numbers if I can too. I'll try to get some pics of the progress of the car too, it is quite far along in the rebuild, but the guy doing it is making me a photo album as well Thanks again, A

02-10-2008, 12:39 AM	#8 (permalink)
78cutlass 78cutlass Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 55	69sAndrews, The block casting # of a '69 Olds 350 is 395558 2. The '69 Olds 350 came with the highly sought after #5 head. In other words, the heads have a #5 casting #. There were 3-different Olds 350 configurations offered in '69. They're as follows: 2-Barrel '69 Olds 350 - 250 HP / 355 TQ 4-Barrel '69 Olds 350 - 310 HP / 390 TQ W-31 '69 Olds 350 - 325 HP / 360 TQ

02-24-2008, 10:22 AM	#9 (permalink)
69sAndrew 69 Cutlass S hardtop Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 42	Ok here is what I found Block nember is 395558 with a big 2 at the end I saw this mean a 350 but not sure of anything else. and the heads are 411829 Any info is appeciated. Andrew

02-24-2008, 03:08 PM	#11 (permalink)
69sAndrew 69 Cutlass S hardtop Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 42	Well I found this chart which made me think it is an orriginal motor. Wish I knew for sure what it is. Been searching forever with google. 1 '64-'66 330 381917 45° cam bank angle. 1A 330 381917 45° cam bank angle. 2 '68-'76 350 381917 2 '68-'70 350 395558 3 '66-'67 330 394417 39° cam bank angle. 4 5 '73,'74 350 395558 2A '75-'81 260 Solid main webs for 2A's only? At least for '76. 2B ??-'81 260 557751 Windowed main webs. Windowed main webs for 2B's only? 3A '79 350 3B '77-'80 350 557752 4A '77 403 557265 Solid main webs possibly 553990 for these three 554990 casting numbers. 4B '77-'79 403 557265 Windowed main webs always. ?? '85 307 556607 5A '81- 307 3161 D3 350 7582 Diesel

02-24-2008, 04:24 PM	#13 (permalink)
78cutlass 78cutlass Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 55	69sAndrew, I think joe padavano's correct, they're probably #8 heads (smog heads / 79 cc). Get yourself a good set of #5, #7 or #7A heads. They're 64cc and flow alot better than the #8's. The block's fine though. It's a good high nickel block that'll make for a good build-up. It should be factory equipped with a nodular iron crankshaft.

02-25-2008, 09:35 AM	#17 (permalink)
69sAndrew 69 Cutlass S hardtop Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 42	I do know about ductile, I used to work in a foundry and we made the break parts for otis elevators. They were and I believe, all ductile. I'd still like to know what heads I have. I'll see if I can find a head number next til I go visit her Andrew

03-03-2008, 03:56 AM	#19 (permalink)
78cutlass 78cutlass Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 55	FACT: NORM'S ANNOYING (AKA: "88 COUPE")

03-03-2008, 03:20 PM	#20 (permalink)
captjim Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 179	Hey Mr. Smarty-pants, ever heard of a "contraction"? Can not, can't, did not, didn't, he is, he's, she is, she's, Norm is, Norm's. Here is a link to help you understand, http://www.ielanguages.com/esl/Apostrophes.pdf " We have already had a thread on the site about Norm's posts, and he was NOT voted off the island." This site gets minimal traffic in the small block forum, and on the site he was asked to leave, membership and traffic grow daily. Coincidence? Your call. As long as Norm is allowed to post in his "unique" style, it will stifle membership and participation, plain and simple. Guys get tired of being berated, insulted, and demeaned.

03-04-2008, 11:14 PM	#24 (permalink)
Muaz Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1	Hi, This post of mine is very knowledgable and may enhance the information of the viewers , however I would like some specific information for myself. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Best Regards, __________________ Property Directory \| Wholesale Billiards Wholesale Batteries \|Stock Brokers Directory

03-06-2008, 02:16 AM	#25 (permalink)
78cutlass 78cutlass Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 55	captjim, Hey buddy, thanks for the lesson in english. You're cool dude! Now, can we move on to important stuff, like OLDSMOBILE STUFF.... PS - captjim, you're scaring me - try "WOOSA"

03-10-2008, 04:42 PM	#26 (permalink)
78cutlass 78cutlass Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 55	captjim, sorry bud my message was intended for j-(chicago), the "English teacher". Hey j-(chicago), I promise I'll study harder. In the meantime, let's discuss O-L-D-S-M-O-B-I-L-E-S