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Has anyone used these headers?

http://www.sandersonheaders.com/Sand...n-Cutlass.html

I need to find out if they'll work on my '64 F85 with 330 and A/C.

Thanks!

stan 65 cutlass

ad says late 60's early 70's, may not work on 64, look good though

Rickman48

Call their tech line - if they don't know, they might send you a trial set, at a reduced price!

64Rocket

I put headers on one of my '64 Cutlass's with a 350 Olds and had to move the engine back a little over an inch to clear the cross member with the curve of the lower header tube.

Gene

1965cutlassragtop

they won't fit without any major tweaking....like moving the motor back as indicated above. i already went that route, had to send them back, then i had to file a claim through the better business bureau to get my money back. i called, told them my engine and year, they told me they would fit perfectly. but they didn't!!!! i sent them back and they said they couldn't give me a full refund because they had a few small scrathces on them....the BBB got my money back, had to wait about a month to get the refund though. those guys are a joke, just out for your money like everyone else nowadays. they were nice headers though, sad i couldn't make them work. i don't have the resources to just "simply" move my engine location. it's tough to put headers on a 64, 65, 66 small block car. modifications are required!!!!

one day i may just run straight pipes out through the hood!!! i'm so tired of trying to get headers on my car....best way would be to have a shop build a custom set, or wait for someone to start mass producing a custom set. cost would be about $800-1000....to me, headers aren't worth that much coin.

1965cutlassragtop

YEAH RIGHT!!!! don't waste your time brother!!!

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Ok, so after my research, it appears KOOKS is the only manufacturer that offers the '64-'67 small block headers which require a new starter.... and are only sold through DickMillerRacing. All said and done- they're about $1100 natural and $1450 ceramic coated, which is an extremely excessive amount of money in my opinion.

So are the 400/455 exhaust ports higher or wider than the 330/350? Possibly a billet adapter kit could be made to interchange- or shall I say retrofit the big block headers for use with the small block engines?

I guess if it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be.

1965cutlassragtop - Who did your engine build? Edelbrock told me their heads/cam/lifters would not fit my 330 block... Any low-cost tips/tricks for more power from the 330 would be great.

1965cutlassragtop

a good friend of mine builds race cars in his garage, he did some research on my motor and helped me pick out parts and did most of the work for me. it is cheap labor, he lets me help out where i can and teaches me little things here and there. i also know an oldsmobile guru who owns a 9 second 65 442 all motor. between the two of them, i was instructed on what would work and what wouldn't. here is the link to the edelbrock power package application guide.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/power_package/performer_power_packages.shtml

scroll down to "oldsmobile" and see the part numbers. i do not have aftermarket heads as i couldn't afford them during the engine rebuild, but i belive that they now make heads for the 330. if not, u can get them from mondello and a couple of other engine builders, just spend some time on google or yahoo searching for oldsmobile heads. 330 and 350 engine blocks are basically identical, just different heads from the factory and larger displacement with the 350 (obviously). so what i have is the cam, lifters, timing gears & chain, intake manifold, and 600cfm performer carb. heads will be a future purchase for me, probably in a few years, i really want to build either a 455 or completely tear my 330 apart, send the block out for resurfacing, and build from the bottom up (it is the original motor, though i already swapped out my original tranny so that's why i may go for the big block). but believe me, having the 330 makes aftermarket parts hard to come by, many manufacturers only list the application for a 350. in my experience, anything that fits a 350 will work on the 330. the only thing you need to worry about being specifically for a 330 is internal engine parts, but even some of those will interchange.

as far as tips/tricks.....swapping out my points distributor for an HEI setup really helped. better starting, no point adjustments, reliable, and no ignition skipping. i will be going with the thorntons 350 jr manifolds over the winter, i currently just use the stock manifolds...though i did switch from single exhaust to dual exhaust. and finally, the edelbrock carb paired with the performer intake is 100x better than the factory setup that was on the car originally, much more power and better gas mileage.

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1965cutlassragtop: Sorry, that's what I get for ASSuming haha. I assumed you had the heads etc. with the package. The problem I have is in my research, my early '64 with #1 heads is a red-headed step-child for performance parts availability.

Of course everyone is on a budget, and I'm trying to get any and all done on a shoe-string budget but so far, I have done the HEI swap, dual exhaust using Pypes downpipes into a custom setup using Flowmaster Super 44 2.5's along with the Edelbrock 2711 intake and Holley Street avenger 570. I still however have the 2speed "jetaway" with switch pitch, the trans works great and I have the switch pitch setup on a toggle under the dash.

I have absolutely no bottom end power.... off-idle to 2000rpm is a dog, and I assume alot of this is due to the transmission and tire diameter- and having to take off with a 1.765:1 ratio 1st gear. Did you see a complete difference in low-end performance when you installed your TH350? I have (using online calculators) figured my rear gears to be 3:23 (open) as my car will shift into 2nd at WOT 5200rpm/76mph (28" OD tires) and I crusie 70mph at about 2750rpm. I haven't completely made up my mind, but I think my next performance mod is going to be either a TH350 or TH200-4R overdrive... what would a sane person choose using 28" tall tires and 3:23 rear gear? With overdrive I figure cruising 70 will run about 1825rpm but I think it'll really lug at 50-60mph running 1300-1450rpm respectively. If I go with the TH350 I'll only be adding the much needed low gear in 1st of course.

Thanks!

1965cutlassragtop

well considering i have 3:08 gears, 3rd gear on the highway doing about 70 mph at roughly 2900, i would suggest to you maybe going with the overdrive since you have a higher gear ratio than i do.

but, pertaining to the differences with the TH350 compared to the 2 speed...NIGHT & DAY!! i still would like to have more low end, but it definately improved with TH350. also, the shifts from 1st-2nd....2nd-3rd are right in the power range, the car is alot quicker, chirps hard into 2nd. on dry pavement, it will not break loose by just punching it though, but it's like the tires are on the verge of spinning...that's why i say i would like more low end so i could just punch it and smoke 'em up. but the power band really pulls, from about 1800rpm-4500rpm, and like i said, the shift points are well within that power range as well. also, i have traction bars on the rear end which help keep the traction, i'm sure. also, i have POSI which would require more power to spin both tires than your OPEN carrier would to spin one tire. so we are dealing with 2 different rear ends. all in all, the tranny swap was probably the best modification, for the money, i have done.

olds small blocks are horsepower engines, not torque monsters. you need a BB to get that low end power. as long as you have that small block, you'll have to live with that 2000-4500 power band...but i enjoy it, it's like a built in tire preserver:-)

Rickman48

Although some will disagree, the 700r4 will help a lot, especially with a 3:08 1st gear!
Some say the rpm drop from 1st to 2nd is too great, but after having 4 in various vehicles, one with a 305 and a 3:08 rear, I feel the enhanced street driveability is well worth it!

1965cutlassragtop

he has a 3:23 gear....i'm the one with 3:08. my th350 is here to stay for a while anyway. i was suggesting to him that he might be better off with an overdrive tranny since he is running lower gears than me.

1965cutlassragtop

u gotta get rid of that 2 speed to get that hot rod driveability that i know you are looking for

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Yeah, I think this will be my next big project. I assume I can run a TH350 with BOP converter for simplicity. I wonder if my flexplate can be re-used- I see the BOP converters have a 10.75" bolt pattern, I wonder what the ST300 bolt pattern is on the torque converter. I don't know for sure my gear ratio- but it's pretty spot on to be calculated to 3.23:1. Here's the calculator I used: http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_speed_rpm.htm

What stall did you go with? The more economical BOP converters I've seen are listed at 2000 flash stall.

I need to find out what the low-stall and high-stall is on my jet-away...... as I will state that I think the low-stall is too low and the high-stall is too high.

1965cutlassragtop

i actually got a new torque converter with the rebuilt TH350 as part of the deal, he said it was a 1800/2200 stall. i was able to use my existing flexplate, so i don't think you'll have a problem with that, but not positive. i was also able to use my existing driveshaft with no modifications, i have a short shaft TH350.

i also recently pulled out the factory throttle linkage and installed a Lokar stainless throttle cable assembly, along with a Lokar stainless kick down cable. by far, the best quality cables i have ever seen or used. you 2 speed uses an electric kickdown mechanism which is that monstrosity bracket thing mounted to the firewall with the wires connected to it. you do not need that when you install a TH350/400. i highly recommend going to the Lokar setup. it looks cleaner and operates perfectly....especially with the billet kickdown bracket they offer to make the install easy and clean looking. check it out:

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Good deal with the transmission.... everything new/refurb is going to run me about $1k give or take.

Well, my '64 has hard linkages for the throttle and I kind of like it. My ST300 had the electric detent on the intake manifold connected to the throttle on the Rochester 2bbl. This however did not survive the carb fire the previous owner had in early 2009 incidently right before I bought it LOL. I have been using the Lokar TH400 electric kickdown (had to modify the bracket and then install it upside-down-backwards to fit the transpan correctly) and it works great!

I see your HEI is conveniently installed differently than mine. I mean conveniently as my vacuum line is about a finger's width away from touching the firewall......

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Horrible iPhone photo from last year..... I've done some more work since then. Current project is getting the A/C working- then something about that no low-end power.

1965cutlassragtop

my rod linkage wasn't opening the secondaries due to travel issues, that was the main reason i made the swap. now i get true WOT, it looks MUCH better, and i have kickdown cable dialed in perfectly. i am soooooooo much happier with the way everything is operating with the cable setup.

the vaccuum can on my HEI is about a fingers width away from the intake manifold, almost thought it wasn't gonna fit!!!