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hello, I have a 73 cutlass s with a stock 350. It was my friends daily driver around 8 years ago until the reverse fear went. Then the car sat and eventually wouldn't run anymore. It was running 5 years ago for a few minutes then stalled out so I'm told.
Ive clean the tank and blew out the lines.
New ignitor 3 distributor timed at 11d btdc
New wires
new plugs gapped to 0.040
changed oil and filter
lubed cylinders and cranked engine over by hand
ran starter 15 seconds 3 times to build oil pressure
eliminated the resistor wire from distributor and wired new 12v ignition wire
i just keep cranking and cranking. I am seeing fuel at the pump. What is the procedure for starting an engine that has run completely dry of fuel. It is about 30 degrees out. Will that affect getting this thing started?
I just did this with mine after 8 years. Lucky mine has been in a dry garage. I did all the same things u did but new battery too. I can't believe it started on the 3rd try but my Holley carb **** the bed. Did u prime the bowls? Could be a carb problem? Is is a Rochester? The members here told me that Holleys don't hold up well just sitting dry for some time.
You will get your answer at this website. Lots of knowledge here.
Tom
Do you have spark? Battery fully charged? Do you see fuel going into the carb when you pull the throttle cable back? You didn't happen to pull the distributor out and reinstall with the firing order out did you?
Eric
Last edited by 76olds; January 2nd, 2017 at 02:25 PM.
As Eric said above engines need air, fuel, and a well timed spark. When you wired the spark plug wires on the cap, did you first find #1 TDC and wire CCW around the cap? Did you operate the throttle and see if you have 2 solid streams of fuel spraying into the throat of the carb?
Bring #1 cylinder up to compression stroke and check to see if dist cap is pointing at #1 plug wire. Not sure how you determined timing without it running? A shot of starting fluid should get some response if ignition is working.
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Maybe something no one has mentioned to you is that Olds distributor cranks opposite to Chevy and Pontiac (see red arrow in diagram) Here's an example of the cap and wiring if it's an issue.
The other thing that you might need to know is that when these older carbureted models have been left a long time, the procedure is to crank the engine and put the gas pedal to the floor for a few seconds to help it start. Pumping the gas pedal may work, but not a recommended procedure.
I checked the spark with a spark tester and I have spark on the number one wire. I have my cap arranged like so. Sorry for the quality it's my service manual for a 73.
I saw no fuel when moving the throttle. I cranked the engine 3 times for 30 seconds and when I pulled off the hoses from the fuel pump there was no fuel in them. When I tried several hours earlier there was some fuel in the smaller line.
i only poured like 3-4 gallons of 87 in the tank. Is that enough?
Last edited by Innosentz; January 2nd, 2017 at 07:15 PM.
So pour an ounce or two of gasoline into the carburetor (even better if you can get a small funnel and pour some into the vent tube to fill the float bowl), replace and screw down the air cleaner, and give it a crank.
If you didn't screw up the firing order, it should start right up.
DO confirm the firing order, though, and, as noted, remember that it goes COUNTERclockwise.
If it starts and runs for a few seconds after pouring gas down the carb it should have run long enough to pump fuel up to the carb of the fuel pump is ok. If it doesn't continue to run and there is gas at the carb then the carb is likely gummed up from years of not running and will require cleaning and a carb kit.
So update. I double checked my firing order and it seems to be correct. I poured gas down the float vent and fired her up. It idled for about 3 seconds then died twice. The 3rd time it backfired thru the carb and I had to break out the fire exstiguisher. I cranked the engine over to what I believe is tdc #1. (The original distributor was timed to this same position before the car sat for 7 years). Both valves were closed. Cranking the engine over 360 degrees and both valves are still closed. Watching the valves are the engine is rotating only the valve to the right moves. The left side valve does not seem to move much if at all. I removed the rocker arms and rolled the push rods on a flat surface. They did not seem bent. This is where I have the engine cranked over for tdc.
Last edited by Innosentz; January 14th, 2017 at 10:01 AM.
The 3rd time it backfired thru the carb and I had to break out the fire exstiguisher.
Didn't replace the air cleaner and screw it down, huh?
Originally Posted by Innosentz
Both valves were open. Cranking the engine over 360 degrees and both valves are still closed.
Which one is it?
Originally Posted by Innosentz
... only the valve to the right moves. The left side valve does not seem to move much if at all.
Which valves do you mean?
Are you talking about the valves of #1 cylinder? So by "left" you mean "front" and by "right" you mean "rear"?
One is the intake and one is the exhaust, and that is normally the way that they are referred to. Saying "left" and "right" about a part that is not even to the left or the right side of the car tends to be confusing.
The order of the valves is: IE IE EI EI.
If one is not moving, is it stuck, and if it is stuck, is it stuck open or stuck closed?
Usually, if a valve is a little bit gummed up after sitting, it will loosen up after a few minutes of running.
It might be wise to crank the engine over for a few minutes (30 seconds at a time) with the spark plugs out, to loosen things up and distribute the oil.
Originally Posted by Innosentz
They did not seem bent. This is where I have the engine cranked over for tdc.
Here is a picture of an Old timing tab with the markings easy to see clearly:
Each point is 4°. TDC is the 4th point from the left (12-8-4-0-4).
Keep plugging at it and you'll have it running soon.
Sorry that was a typo. I meant both valve remain closed. I did not know the intake valve was the front valve. So my guess is the intake valve for cylinder 1 is stuck open. I cranked the engine over with the plugs out a couple of days ago. 3 times for 30 seconds
Because of the greater heat experienced by the exhaust valves, they are more likely to stick than intake valves in most cases, so if this one is sticking, it's probably just due to gunk. You may wish to spray some SeaFoam into the area of the valve guide, then wing the engine over a few times, to try to loosen it up. If it does loosen up, then you should squirt some motor oil into the guide area to replace what was washed out.
The valve is now moving, I oiled all the valves and reinstalled the valve cover. I installed the air cleaner and tried to start the car. It ran for 3 seconds then died. I got it to start again and tried to rev it up. The air cleaner smoked like crazy and it died.
In your first post you mentioned you lubed all the cylinders, had fuel going to the pump but not the carb. You pulled the original distributor out and put in place a new/used and you figure the wires and distributor is all correct.
You didn't mention a new fuel filter, did you put a new filter in or try running it without a filter briefly? Are you still not getting fuel up past the pump.
What made the air filter smoke? Did you pour some oil or something down the carb to make it backfire after the fire you put out prior?
You need to look at the fuel supply now that the valves seem to be moving and you put the covers back on.
I have been pouring an ounce of gas into the float vent 3 times. I think some gas splashed onto the choke. I was unable to find the fuel filter. I don't think the pump is pumping fuel.
From what you describe, it sounds as though everything is working right, but you are not getting any fuel flow from the pump to the carb.
I would recommend removing the line at the carb. and cranking the engine with the plugs out to see whether you're getting any gas.
If so, measure the quantity pumped in a measured period of time, like 15 or 30 seconds, and, if possible check the pressure.
While you have the line off, you can remove the big nut and check the filter.
Be VERY CAREFUL when rethreading and installing the filter nut back into the carb. body, because if you strip the threads, things just got expensive.
You'll gain a better understanding of how it works and what to do if you take a look at the Carburetor section of the Chassis Service Manual.
But, yes, you should expect to find a sintered bronze filter inside, where the fuel line screws into the carb.
Sometimes it has been replaced by an aftermarket paper filter.
They should be easy to get at he auto parts store.
They have to be pretty darned plugged to prevent any gas at all from flowing, though, so it's probably not your problem.
If you do remove the fuel line to check the fuel pump, be sure to catch any gas that gets pumped out. As Eric said if you remove the spark plugs the motor will crank alittle faster and easier, BUT remove the coil wire first please, you dont need 8 wires producing spark while pumping out gas.
Mdchanic & Steverw are giving you very good advice , if you don't have a chassis service manual as Eric suggested, grab a pen and paper and write down everything these guys are trying to help you with.
These guys will be you best friends beginning at post #4 here until you get it going.
Don't forget to show some appreciation afterwards, they are saving you $$.
All the best with getting your car going,
Cheers
Eric
I have removed the fuel line and measured the amount of gas pumped out for two 15 second intervals. It was just a hair under 2 oz. There was no fuel filter in the fuel inlet, and when i removed it a white milky substance came out. I assume really old gas.
Seeing as I am getting fuel up to the carb I suspect it may need a rebuild. Or I might have an intake valve stuck open seeing as how every time i push the pedal to the floor it backfires. thru the carb.
You can probably get it to run (though not perfectly) if you carefully disassemble, clean thoroughly with GumOut, then reassemble with the same gaskets.
Obviously, a rebuild kit, float, and a soak in a proper cleaner would be best.
I have never seen any white milky substances in a fuel system myself, But I've never tried to get a car sitting for that many years going.
I have seen it on the top of an oil fill cap and in radiators.
I hope you can get it going with a carb cleaner.
The white stuff may be from condensation generated by not getting the engine to temp to evaporate it. If it is old fuel it will have a really nasty varnish smell. If you did not clean out the tank well, any gummy deposites will mix with the fresh gas and gum up your valve train causing them to stick. It will also contaminate the carb.
The way the white mixture is sitting on the intake, it appears as thou it came from the PCV vacuum hose to the carb.
He didn't mention things were gummed when he had the valve covers off or when he blew the fuel lines out and flushed the gas tank. Something else seems to be going on here from the pic he posted.
Backfiring out the carb could be a cam issue if he's not getting much fuel to the carb???? Eric MD/ Eric OLDC?? I don't know.
Maybe the poster needs to post a few more pics for further help and diagnostics on our end.
The way the white mixture is sitting on the intake, it appears as thou it came from the PCV vacuum hose to the carb... Something else seems to be going on here from the pic he posted.
"There was no fuel filter in the fuel inlet, and when i removed it a white milky substance came out."
He's got water in the carb and needs to rebuild it.
"There was no fuel filter in the fuel inlet, and when i removed it a white milky substance came out."
He's got water in the carb and needs to rebuild it.
- Eric
I didn't read his post properly, thanks for pointing that out to me haha. I need new glasses LOL.
I hope he takes your recommendation now that I read it properly.
I have decided to buy a reman carb off rock auto. The white liquid came out of the fuel knelt when I unscrewed it. It was not sitting on the intake. The fuel tank looked clean as New on the inside when I dropped it and replaced the sending unit.
I will update everyone again when I replace the carb. I will also be replacing all the vaccume hoses.
I have been searching the forums and google to find out about these autoline reman carbs. There is very little feedback on them. From what i can tell this is a rebuilt original 1973. I could be wrong though.
What have others experienced with these carbs. What might be assembled wrong? Are they jetted different in different climates and such? I'm fairly new to carbs.
Should i just send it back and order a rebuild kit?
January 2nd, 2017, 12:52 PM
unable to find the fuel filter???
