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I've got a 1972 Cutlass, 350/350 combo. Original shroud installed with a 6 blade clutch fan.
The car has what appears to be a factory 2 row radiator and it's old. It was boiled out a couple years ago, but there are some fins that are bent over, and it's just generally old.
It'd like to use a 3 row, and while this isn't listed as for Cutlass, it's the exact same dimensions across the board as the 2 row that is listed for Cutlass.
I don't want to get a 4 row, as I don't want to spend the extra $200 for the top plate, the new bottom saddles, and the welding of them back in place. But as a three row will fit right in, I would like to upgrade from a 2 to a 3.
What other brands have you bought, and how have they worked?
Years ago, I had my 2-row factory radiator re-cored to 4 rows so that it would fit in the same saddles. At that time I had upgraded from a thin, "HORSEPOWER SAVING" aluminum 6-blade fan that dad installed when he added the under-dash A/C (and consistently resulted in over-heating when sitting in traffic) to a "thick" factory-style 6-blade / clutch combo (which cured all overheating problems). Last year that 4-row finally started leaking again, so I swapped it w/ a 3-row Champion aluminum radiator. With some tweaking of new "saddle cushions" it fit just fine. The one issue I had was that one of the radiator hose fittings was under-sized (I think it was the return to the pump), but by re-using the protective cap that came on the radiator as a sleeve, was able to get the rad hose to clamp down and seal just fine. The only other problem I had was that the cap that came w/ the radiator leaked, so I replaced it w/ another from Auto Zone (the cap fitting dimensions, being machined from alum, were a little off of what the cap would've been happy with). All is good now, seems to cool just fine.
Years ago, I had my 2-row factory radiator re-cored to 4 rows so that it would fit in the same saddles. At that time I had upgraded from a thin, "HORSEPOWER SAVING" aluminum 6-blade fan that dad installed when he added the under-dash A/C (and consistently resulted in over-heating when sitting in traffic) to a "thick" factory-style 6-blade / clutch combo (which cured all overheating problems). Last year that 4-row finally started leaking again, so I swapped it w/ a 3-row Champion aluminum radiator. With some tweaking of new "saddle cushions" it fit just fine. The one issue I had was that one of the radiator hose fittings was under-sized (I think it was the return to the pump), but by re-using the protective cap that came on the radiator as a sleeve, was able to get the rad hose to clamp down and seal just fine. The only other problem I had was that the cap that came w/ the radiator leaked, so I replaced it w/ another from Auto Zone (the cap fitting dimensions, being machined from alum, were a little off of what the cap would've been happy with). All is good now, seems to cool just fine.
Tweaking of the saddles? You mean you bought 2/3 row saddles to replace the ones you had on there for the 4 row?
Good to know about the hoses. Hmm. Sounds like an area that would be prone for leaks down the road.
If it was re-cored, wouldn't the 4 rows be smaller and therefore not as efficient? There is one local old time radiator shop around, I suppose I could call them and ask about re-coring my 2 row to a 3 row, and see how expensive it would be. But it'd think it would be more than the $225 it's looking like for a 3 row aluminum replacement.
If it was re-cored, wouldn't the 4 rows be smaller and therefore not as efficient?
I had my original radiator recored with a high efficiency 4 row core using the factory 3 row end tanks. It cools the engine quite well in our 115+ summer temps. Check with your radiator shop to see what they have available.
I had my original radiator recored with a high efficiency 4 row core using the factory 3 row end tanks. It cools the engine quite well in our 115+ summer temps. Check with your radiator shop to see what they have available.
Il'l give them a call tomorrow and see, but looking at the upper radiator hose barb off the radiator, it does look "weak". Moving the hose does appear to make the barb flex. So it's starting to fail.
Il'l give them a call tomorrow and see, but looking at the upper radiator hose barb off the radiator, it does look "weak". Moving the hose does appear to make the barb flex. So it's starting to fail.
The radiator shop can either reconnect it or install a new one in the end tank. That is a really simple job for them. The most cost-effective solution may be the radiator posted above, though.
I have their 4 row in my cutlass. It works great! In the hottest part of summer (90-100* plus humid) with the a/c on I see 170*-180* in traffic with a 160* t stat.
Tweaking of the saddles? You mean you bought 2/3 row saddles to replace the ones you had on there for the 4 row?
I should've been more clear. When I re-cored my original 2-row to 4-rows, the radiator shop re-used the tanks, so it fit in the original rubber cushions in the saddles just fine. Fast-forward 20+ years when it finally gave out, the rubber cushions in the saddles were pretty rotted, so I purchased new ones that required some tweaking to fit the slightly wider (width as viewed from the front of the car, not depth) bosses between the tanks and rows of the new aluminum radiator. I did not need to modify the welded-in metal portion of the saddles in my core support either time.
When I installed the new rubber cushions in the saddles, I cleaned-up and re-painted as much of my core support and the metal portion of the saddles as I could. The new rubber cushions needed to have "V"s cut in them so that they could be folded 90-deg at the fore/aft and come up around to cushion the radiator bosses on 3 sides.
Bottom line, the overall thickness of the new 3-row Champion radiator, where it sits in the saddles (interface between the tanks and the rows) is about the same as my original 2-row factory radiator.
Last edited by JohnnyBs68S; December 14th, 2016 at 12:04 PM.
Get either the 2 or 4 core, they should be comparable. If the smaller G body 4 core can cool a 10 to 1 compression 403 that good, it will cool your near stock 350 with the bigger A body rad version.
You pay for what you get in an aluminium rad. Flow/cooling tests are the key with the tube spacing and fin splitting. Believe it or not , the old style copper core will out cool anything. The problem is the copper and solder has become too expensive.
As (FUN71) Kenneth mentioned, if you can find a rad shop that can re-core yours with the most amount of rows your tanks can handle that would be the best. A factory 2 row should have enough offset to handle a extra set of rows possible 2 without having to change tanks or existing cradles.
Myself I bought the 2 row-1" tubes from Be-cool, a little bit expensive but the flow and cooling fins are the best on the market at the moment.
I hope this helps
Eric
I purchased my first Champion radiator recently based on other's good experiences. Upon first inspection they are well made with good welds, but I had trouble fitting the radiator because it was bent or ridiculously out of square (see pics 1&2 below). I called Champion and they were super quick to send me a replacement which was much better, but still slightly off from the OEM core size for our cars (see pic 3 below). The driver's side tank "hooks" back at the bottom of the core reducing the width to 28". This may not be problem if you're running the stock fan shroud as the corners of the shroud are cut away, but I'm running a Derale electric fan & shroud which is designed to fit the OEM 28-1/4" core size and doesn't fit at the bottom where the replacement radiator is only 28" wide. I'm still working with Champion about getting another replacement radiator but they are insisting that the OEM core size is 28" not 28-1/4" Waiting to see if they make it right for me.
First Radiator, very jacked-up!
Second radiator, better but not quite right
Last edited by cdrod; December 27th, 2016 at 06:58 AM.
Reason: typo
Never checked mine for straightness and it got badly burnt. You do get what you pay. I was considering the big core Griffin rads but quite a few have had leaks. The US made Derale fans are about the only after market fans worth buying, supposed to move a lot of air. I moved the Startus fans over to my 70 S, will see how they do with the two core, that was recored with the 350.
I purchased my first Champion radiator recently based on other's good experiences. Upon first inspection they are well made with good welds, but I had trouble fitting the radiator because it was bent or ridiculously out of square (see pics 1&2 below). I called Champion and they were super quick to send me a replacement which was much better, but still slightly off from the OEM core size for our cars (see pic 3 below). The driver's side tank "hooks" back at the bottom of the core reducing the width to 28". This may not be problem if you're running the stock fan shroud as the corners of the shroud are cut away, but I'm running a Derale electric fan & shroud which is designed to fit the OEM 28-1/4" core size and doesn't fit at the bottom where the replacement radiator is only 28" wide. I'm still working with Champion about getting another replacement radiator but they are insisting that the OEM core size is 28" not 28-1/4" Waiting to see if they make it right for me.
Looks like Champion is gonna do right by me. They are hand-picking a replacement radiator for me, from their available stock, that measures exactly 28-1/4" wide at the top and bottom of the tanks. Although I'm glad they are addressing the problem, it doesn't speak too well of their quality control that it requires hand selection to meet the factory specs. They are sending a return postage label to return the defective radiator...Sorry jpc647, I have to send it back to them. I'll try to post up some pics of the new radiator for continuity of this thread.
Rodney
Looks like Champion is gonna do right by me. They are hand-picking a replacement radiator for me, from their available stock, that measures exactly 28-1/4" wide at the top and bottom of the tanks. Although I'm glad they are addressing the problem, it doesn't speak too well of their quality control that it requires hand selection to meet the factory specs. They are sending a return postage label to return the defective radiator...Sorry jpc647, I have to send it back to them. I'll try to post up some pics of the new radiator for continuity of this thread.
Rodney
Agreed. After hearing this, I'm not too sure I'd want to buy a Champion.
December 13th, 2016, 07:50 AM
