anthonyP

I understand everyone has their own preference, but....

Almost seems like every Cutlass now has a big block in it, but what is wrong with keeping the original 350? It is the best of GM's small block engines.

This is especially true if the Cutlass was factory built with the optional 4-bbl and dual exhaust version, which makes for a great combination for all round performance and drivability.

If stock is not enough, the 350 with just mild modifications can be made to be a good street performer.

This is also seen with many '72 Cutlass and 442's with the optional "M" code 350 (4-bbl & dual exhaust), or the very rare "K" code 350 (2-bbl & dual exhaust), with the engine replaced with a big block.

.....just my opinion.

jharsh

Not sure who would say different. There is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping the 350.

oldcutlass

Personal preference, nothing wrong with an SBO. The cost difference of rebuilding and installing a BBO is negligible, however the power gain for $$$ expended is greater with the BBO, so a lot opt to go that route.

bccan

350 is a great engine & very responsive to tuning & bolt on mods. Mostly a "streetability" or "drivability" situation once you start seeking appx 400 hp or more. They are capable of way more than that but may not be the most pleasant thing to drive around town, the highway or sit in a traffic jam with. Depends on the combo & the driver's preferences.

coppercutlass

I'm a big fan of all small blocks. Buick ford , etc etc. My sbo with typical high performance mods and careful planning has gone 12.60's at over 105 mph in the 1/4 mile. On the street it gives many cars a run for their money. Even a few big blocks .

droptopron

IMO this is where rare & valuable diverge. While rare, no more valuable. If anything, less valuable & not that much fund. 3 on the tree is pretty rare too but a four speed is a heck of a lot more fun.

Fun71

FYI, the 350-4bbl engine was standard equipment on the Cutlass Supreme.

marxjunk

i had a friend in high school that had a 68 cutlass with a 350 4bb..real low mile with 3.23ish posi (maybe more..no a/c)...it had a decal on the air cleaner that said "ultra high compression" and that thing screamed...i dont know what it was or what it came from originally..but it was all i could do to beat him with my 400 4spd GTO..and it was always close..i got him on the top..

a real sleeper...it was a white on white 4 door hardtop with hubcaps and cheater slicks...it was such a grandma looking car

that car was impressive...had a special gas cap with a red tag rivited on calling for premium fuel only...so....350s are cool..

i wouldnt change one unless there was a prob..then sadly..it would prob get a 455..just too easy and cheap not to.

oldcutlass

That would have been a 330 or 425 for the ultra high compression stickers.

MDchanic

The best thing about 350s is that people who want to spend thousands of dollars rebuilding and installing big blocks in cars they will only drive a few times a year, and then mostly at 30mph, will pull out perfectly good small blocks and sell them to you cheap.

Also, if you do actually want to drive the car, you may be able to touch 20mpg with a 350, depending on the gearing and how heavy your foot is.

- Eric

olds 307 and 403

The Olds 350 was GM's most durable 350. They are way cheaper to buy around here than the 455 and seem to have way less bottom end issues than the 455.

marxjunk

i see..i guess he swapped the cleaner in..it still ran like stink..i dont know what it really was....i was 17 chasing women and racing my GTO as much as i could,,and it shocked me...stock idle i remember that...and he was poor as a church mouse..just cant remember much about it..and didnt care,,it was a 4 door..lol

i was so arrogant...i laffed at it because it was a 4 door...he wiped the grin off my face pretty quick..and from that point forward...i respected olds 350s...

Lee_A

Or, install a 403! I've had cars with all 3 - 350, 403, and 455. I ran the snot out of all of them, and they were all fun and reliable. 403's are my favorites, though.

anthonyP

My Dad had a '72 Supreme with the standard 350 4-bbl engine, but with only single exhaust. A good performer, but of course, would had been even better with the optional 350 4-bbl dual exhaust upgrade.

A co-worker had ordered a '72 Supreme with the 4-bbl delete option and received a $20 credit for opting for the 2-bbl. I think it might have had dual exhausts though.

350Rockt

I'm sticking with my 350 because of reliability. I trust it to last more than the 455. I've heard so many stories about 350 Olds lasting forever, even from non Olds people. My 350 was a free junkyard find and I thought it would need a rebuild, but 60k miles and almost 10 years later still no rebuild. Just a timing chain. Probably 300k miles on it.

Lee_A

I got my '72 Cutlass Supreme Convertible, 350, 4bbl, single exhaust, on July 11, 1982, 5 days after I turned 16.


A few years later, I had about 90,000 miles on it. I wanted dual exhaust, my dad's friends told me I was nuts, I was just going to kill the motor.


At 100,000 I installed one of the first Edelbrock 3711 intakes and a Holley carb - "you're gonna it blow it up, kid!"


At 110,000 miles, I wanted to install headers - again, I was just going to blow the motor up.


At 120,000, I bought an Engle 16-18 and new valve springs.


At 140,000 I installed a 3.23 posi rear.


I grossly over-revved the motor numerous times. Drove it WAY faster than it ever should have been driven. Drove it with nearly no oil left in the oil pan a time or two.... (OOPS!!!). Transmissions gave out, motor mounts broke, suspension had problems, A/C died,.... NEVER had an issue with the 350.


Pulled the perfectly running motor at 148,000 miles to install a 455. I lost track of how many problems we had with the 455.

jpc647

But I bet that 455 screams, where as that 350 is, meeehhhhh. A stock low compression 350 is nothing to get excited about. Many modern 4 cylinders will blow the doors off many stockish 350's.

Where as a stock low comp 455, will still move along a car very nicely. I think that's why people do it.

350Rockt

Down the track some modern 4 cylinders will beat it but off the light not many would. As long as I can hook up. On thestreet where I drive every day the 350 has more power than I can use most of the time.

olds 307 and 403

Yes, 20 mpg is very possible with a 350 and 2004R or highway gears. I am only running mid 14's but it is still the very nice stock 76 350 bottom end. I paid $120 for the whole motor. The same guy had a nice 68 Cutlass with a 72 350. He pulled 76 out because it ran great but was under powered. Of course he had a 455 there that had a blown bottom end and I could tell he thought it was worth big bucks. I ignored it and talked him down $30 and got my 350 with 20 hot oil pressure at idle with 45-50 cruising hot oil pressure and 140-142 psi all 8 cylinders. I heard so many stories from my ex brother in law about how much power the 2 or 3 high compression 455's had. Of course he blew them up. He tried to kill the mid 70's Olds 350 put in his 81 1/2 ton, former diesel that went through 3 455's and also our 75 Cutlass 4 Dr that went ditch jumping at over 100 mph. Neither died and we sold that 75 for scrap, someone drove it another 5 years.

Lee_A

The 455 didn't scream, but it had gobs of low/mid-range torque. For the first 5 or 6 seconds of a race from a stop, not much could hang with it.

88 Cutty Classic

well i mean they got what....40 YEARS of a technology advantage and dont weight anything. faster or not , they can't replace the sound and feel of a v8.

oldcutlass

Amen...

marxjunk

somebody throw a chair at the 4 cylinder guy...oh wait...sorry..got excited..thought we was gonna have throw down...

never mind.....carry on..


OH...Geraldo was the chair throwing incedent...i cant even keep my talk shows straight...age is ab!tch..aint it

cutlassefi

I'm all for the SBO, that's still what's in my car.
However having a stroker crank for them would be nice. I did a 3.75" stroke one for someone but had to abandon the build. Sold it to a guy who's now putting it in a 403. It'll be 450ci + when he's done. Should be interesting!

jpc647

If thats the case, you don't have anywhere near a stock motor.

my point was a lot of times it easier, cheaper, and more fun to drop a 455 into a 350 car, instead of trying to build a reliable 350 that'll have some power.

coppercutlass

My 350 has been reliable and its built. get in and drive anywhere pretty much. I have to drive it to the track and back. Mind you it cost me a fraction of what most would pay for the engine and i have what most would pay for a shop to build their engine into my whole drivetrain combo. But this also supports the fact when guys have no idea what they are doing and go to a 455 i will come along and pay cents on the dollar on good used parts.


Here it is when it was a very mild 350 ran 14.2's eventually ended running 13.8's that same summer with tweaks on a very very mild combination bout 6 years ago. put the
hurt on that cobalt ss.



Here it is in its current state. Small blocks rock. 12.60 s pump gas driven everywhere.

350Rockt

Alright, you're right. It's nowhere near stock it has an edelbrock performer intake, flow tech headers, recurved hei, rejetted qjet, and 2" dual exhaust with an x pipe and no cats. I guess I didn't really think these qualified as being much more than stock lol.

Maybe i was exaggerating a bit, but what I mean is I live in town and when I'm driving around in town full throttle even from a roll results in lots of tire smoke and a high chance of being pulled over. If I'm out in the country I can go full throttle a lot and would like the extra power, but 9.5:1 cr and a cam swap should make it like a whole different car. As cool as a 455 is, I would bet even with a more radical build trying to keep up with the 455, the 350 would probably be more reliable.

The 455 just seems to have too many failures. That and it's going to kill the rest of the drivetrain faster. So unless i win the lottery tomorrow I'll be sticking with the 350.

cutlassefi

I'm all for small blocks but someone isn't doing something right if they're having multiple failures. Just sayin'.

350Rockt

So what is it that needs to be done differently on each since the 350 has so many few failures, whether we're taking built or stock?

cutlassefi

Don't know what the failures where so I really can't say. what I will say is I've done many with no failures, just like a lot of other guys.

coppercutlass

It comes down to attention to detail. Making sure the machine work is good and clearances are good. I personally knew someone who ran a 455 for over 10 years in the low 11's with no issues.

oldsmobiledave

For many decades I was a big block guy. The stroker SBO in my 87 442 made me a believer in the SBO. If I had to go down to only owning one car it would be powered by a stroker SBO.

350Rockt

If I was to go big block it would be a 425. :-)

oldsmobiledave

Why? That is a small displacement big block by today's standards.

jpc647

I don't want to get too off-track here, but whats the motor? What year, what heads, etc? Just for ha-ha's, what are you running for tires? Maybe you've got a high comp 350, say out of a 69/70. But a stock(even stock rebuild) 71up surely isn't going to light up the tires like you're describing, not from a roll with 3.23's. Especially if you've got a posi.

I have the same modifications to a stock 72 cutlass, minus the xpipe, and even at WOT I don't have problems hooking up. And mine is a peg leg rear. So you've got to be making at least 300+hp at the crank.

anthonyP

I've heard that the 425 engine had the best of both worlds, the torque of a big block and the revs of a small block, along with a forged crank.

coppercutlass

Them forged cranks are not as strong as most make em to be., better slightly but still not the greatest.

I personally would love to build a short stroke 400.

350Rockt

Not even close. It's a 76 350 with #8 heads and stock cam. Never rebuilt. 2004R trans with a 3.73 open rear end. Fairly new cheap Hercules hp4000 tires 235/60r15. 84 Cutlass with mostly stock suspension. Guess I'll have to make a video of the motor and then a burnout to prove it. Don't forget your car is heavier than mine and you probably don't have the 2004R and the better first gear ratio.

anthonyP

Supposedly the short stroke 400's are now hard to find due to many 66/67 442's missing the factory engine or having it replaced with a later engine.

Even harder to find is the often maligned 68/69 long stroke 400, as they reportedly were routinely removed and replaced with the larger brethren.

coppercutlass

I had a hard time smoking em from a roll with my mild 13.86 combo with 3.73 gears., I consider a roll like 15 to 20 mph. My current combo will smoke em into 2nd and chirp into 3rd. Will also smoke em from a roll in 2nd while cruising.