76Champ

Hey all. This is my first post and look forward to many more. I am currently building a '72 Olds 350 for my '76 Cutlass Supreme. There seems to be a variety of opinions on headers that will fit. Looking for input from those of you that may have the same model. I would be OK with using a small size starter if necessary. I would rather buy a set of headers that don't have to be "modified" to fit around the frame or suspension.

76olds

I installed a set of Hedman Shorties in my 76 along with a Powermaster mini starter. The headers fit great no issues not a scratch on them. The only problem I had was with the drivers side exhaust pipe. If you have a look in my photo album here you'll see what I mean. I went with 2 1/4 pipe.
I hope this helps
Eric

76Champ

Thanks for info, Eric. I was looking at the Hedman Shorties and Long Tube as options. Thanks for the reference to the Powermaster Starter, as well as the driver's side exhaust pipe. Great info!

76Champ

Eric - do you happen to have the Hedman Model number?

76olds

Lance, I had to call hedman directly and ask for the ceramic coating put on part # HED-58160, this was about 2 years ago now. I had to wait 6 weeks because they didn't have any in stock.
Just be sure you want to go with shorties and not long tube. I was wanting more bottom end then top end, that was why I went with the short ones.
Also is you have a look in my photo galary, the front driver side exhaust pipe was a bit of a bugger to fab up, only reason was I didn't want it hanging low. I liked it better with the exhaust pipes tucked up a little more.
Hope this helps
Eric

76Champ

Hedman 58060, Long Tubes fit like a glove. Had to remove the lower stabilizer bars, make a couple small dents to clear the A-Arms but other than that perfect fit. Sent them to a local shop to ceramic coat inside and outside. Almost got this thing back on the road! Started it and broke in on the test stand. Sounds amazing!

76olds

That good news, I haven't heard of anyone with our year car running the long tube headers.
So this info will certainly help many guys thinking about them.
Thanks for the updates what type of gaskets did you choose to install them with ?

Eric

76Champ

Going to try the Hedman Gaskets unless you guys have any other suggestions.

76olds

I don't have any experience with the supplied hedman gaskets, I was told I should purchase some graphite ones here at Performance Improvements. So I asked the CO forum here and many guys also backed up the graphite ones.
I went with the Remflex Graphite ones, have had good luck with them so far going on 3 summers now.
I hope this helps
Eric

80 Rocket

Actually, shorty headers do not give you more bottom end. Shorty headers were simply made for ease of installation.


The primary OD of your tubes can give you more torque if you choose a smaller size.


However, long tube headers will always give you more TQ and more HP throughout the powerband over a set of shorties. It is the sizing of the primary tubes, length of primary tubes, size of collector and length of collector that should be considered for your intended application.


I am helping a young guy building his 350 for a 76 442. He had some shop install headers on it before I met him. They did not remove the lower stablilizer bars and the headers are all beat to hell to the point one tube looks like it might not be able to breathe anymore. Completely crap installation.

76olds

I just copied and pasted this off the net, not sure how correct this is as to 80 rockets evaluations with real time engine builds but here it is for those who are interested.


For a variety of reasons that involve physics, it turns out that long tube headers do the best job building horsepower and torque from mid-to-high RPMs. These are great for high-revving machines and track terrors, but they do sacrifice some of the low-RPM power that most drivers depend on.
On the other side of the coin, shorty headers deliver more power horsepower and torque from idle to the mid-RPM range. This makes shorty headers perfect for your daily commute or hauling your boat up a hill. We'll also note that sometimes short tubes can be easier to install. Check out some exhaust header reviews to get the inside scoop on installation.

BlackGold

That is completely contradictory to everything I've ever read about headers -- both theory and tests. Sounds like marketing to me.

80 Rocket

What is sounds like is an advertisement from a company trying to sell shorty headers. Do you notice how they don't explain the physics of it?


The lower the peak power RPM, the longer the primary tube must be. It's the same principle with the intake runners. You know why Olds made so much more torque from the factory? Longer intake runners then other makes out there. The same wave tuning principles apply to the exhaust.

76olds

Don, as you know I'm just a bolt on guy/check writer as most serious car guys would say. If the info isn't correct from the web along with the tech guys at hedman then it could very well be a marketing deal.
At the end of the day, I was happy with my purchase, with the look of my purchase after the install. As for Performance with just the headers/duals alone I would not know.
I had many things done at once, including my rear 3:42 gears and posi, along with the 2 1/4 duals along with the torque converter.
I can say my boat of a 76 comes off the line much quicker and picks up much better than before, for a stock #8 headed smog 350.
I hope this helps other guys with 73-77 smog 350 Olds engines than run awesome but just looking for a bit more.

Eric

olds 307 and 403

Sanderson 1 5/8" or Hooker Comp 1 5/8" long tubes headers should make more bottom end torque. Either way, they all add 20+ HP/TQ over awesome SBO manifolds, you just get more with long tubes.

76olds

Put-r-ther, Thanks for chiming in Olds 307 and 403 , adds 20hp/tq, Ill tip back another Jack to that. I'm feelin' better now !!
Cheers
Eric

olds 307 and 403

Basing that off a Mopar Muscle test. Used a 300 HP 318 magnum crate engine, started off with restrictive truck/van manifold, necked down to fit under the van dog house. Very similar to our manifolds, I owned a set. Then they used 360 and 340 Hi Po manifolds, 11hp and 13hp. Probably Thornton manifolds with mild massaging would probably equal the 340 manifolds. Anyway the gains were 20 HP with shorty headers, 26 HP with long tubes and similar torque gains equal to horsepower gained.

80 Rocket

Eric, I hope you don't feel you need to be defensive here. I am simply correcting incorrect information given. It's little tidbits like these that are thrown out there on message boards that one day become "facts" because someone read it on the internet.


I'm not saying you should be dissatisfied with your purchase. You have an improvement over stock for sure. Plus, the installation is so much easier.


However, I would encourage guys like you to take the time to familiarize yourself with more of the basics if you intend on having a nice street machine. It will only help you communicate more clearly with a machine shop/builder about your intended goals.

76olds

No defensive action here Don,
I just stated in the thread above the reason why I went with shorty headers.
You mentioned shorty headers don't give more bottom end. ( Idle to mid rpm )
I just posted what I've read and been told.
Everyone has a story behind their beliefs I understand that.

Educating myself about the basics of engine building or what makes more power doesn't pay my bills, nor would it make me big $$. May save me a little money, but its not worth it in my case at the moment.

Thanks for posting the correct facts about the shorty headers. I'm sure this will help out others.
Time for a drink haha !!!

Cheers
Eric

ankerclanker

Before I ask my question, I'm not trying to hijack anyone's thread. So if I did, I apologize now. Here is my question: Will headers that fit a 350 Olds also fit a 330? I have a set of long tube headers for a 330, but they hang to low below the frame, so looking for some shorty's. Any info would be appreciated.

tks
ted

76Champ

Ted - The manufacturer will list the engines the header model fits.

80 Rocket

Yes, they will fit any small block Olds. 307, 330, 350, 403

76Champ

One last update on this subject. After a full fit and tightening everything down, the header was right on the starter. This caused a heat soak issue. Did some research on here and ended up with a 307 Olds, High Torque OEM style starter. Better price than a mini and fit perfect to give me enough clearance. So far, heat soak issue is resolved.