Smitty275

No not that kind of oil & lube.

I've seen a lot of people complaining about oils not having enough zddp and saying its imperative to use special additives if your going to run a flat tappet camshaft.
I've had this conversation with professionals in both the oil industry and whom I've know for many years in the camshaft industry. Everyone of them tells me the same thing. An oil is designed to work by itself. When the zddp was removed other elements took its place and the oils actually became better for it. By adding ANY additive with zddp your just ruining the oil because the newly introduced zddp now bonds with the detergents in the oil. Kind of like the immune system going after unwanted germs. Now neither the zddp nor the detergents are able to do their job and the overall effectiveness of the oil decreased. They say that if you want extra protection then run a fortified oil just the way you pour it out of the bottles such as the many break in oils now available. They also say that just about any automotive oil offered today is better than anything offered 15 or 20 years ago. And we did fine with those.
With the proper assembly lube on the cam & lifters, priming of the oil system, and a high grade oil you will not have camshaft issues. I have never had camshafts issues doing it this way. I've only ever had two customers in 30 yrs. who had a camshaft issue that resulted in wiped lobes. And I've sold a lot of cams & lifters.
Use a good oil, proper assembly lube on the cam & lifters, run the engine at 1500-2000 rpm while varying the rpm in that range has worked very well for myself and my customers. Just wanted to let others know my experiences and hopefully help them have a successful cam break in or new engine break in.

Others experiences and opinions may vary.

oldcutlass

There are many well documented cases that different oils and flat tappet cams have resulted in failures. These articles are all over the internet and have been published in magazines since the friction packages were modified to accommodate newer emission systems and are not as critical for roller cam setups. I have only experienced 1 cam failure in my lifetime and was due to a collapsed lifter. I agree that oils have improved over the years and also think they are blended for particular applications. I disagree about some additives that have been available over the years such as top oils used to provide quick lubrication when the engine is first started.

I still believe that a flat tappet cam has special lubrication needs that newer oils don't provide.

Tedd Thompson

Smitty here is a looooong read on that very subject that opened my eyes, give it a try and maybe it will help you make a decision....Tedd...http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

oldcutlass

I posted that in many threads as the writer spent a lot of time and testing all the oils listed. He also did a few tests with some additives where they increased the friction pkg or actually took away from it as Smitty suggests.

Wise Performance

I Use WD 40 for all my lubbercation, its made with fish oil.

Nilsson

I agree on not using ZDDP additives. It would make sense that adding it to conventional high detergent oils is not the best situation. I do use oil formulated with extra ZDDP which seem to contain less detergents.

Oldsmaniac

My new Erson cam arrived today for the 330. The insert says recommended oil SF or SE SAE 20 or 30 weight NON DETERGENT with breakin additive from Erson or use Joe Gibbs Racing break in oil. New generation diesel oil with high detergent no longer recommended for flat tappet cams. Do not use any other additives at this time. Coat cam lobes with lube supplies with cam. Prime oil system manually. Run engine at 2000 rpm for at least 20 minutes, do not let engine idle.

jag1886

I have never been a fan of mechanic in a can stuff. I just buy a better grade of oil that has built from the ground up with what I want in it. Joe Gibbs all the way.

oldcutlass

I think when I broke in my Lunati cam, they recommended 30wt non detergent and their cam lube. I always used Isky Rev-Lube with moly on lobes and bearings, and add a qt of Gm EOS to 4 qts cheap 30wt. Prime the engine right before starting and run for 20 - 30 mins @ 2500 vary the speed +/- 500 rpm. Right after break in the oil gets changed. I will not use that red crap that comp cams provides as cam lube.

Rick Finsta

I've always been fascinated with this topic, as the difference between the spring pressures on, say, my 8400rpm Honda daily driver with mechanical flat tappets and my 6500rpm 362cid Olds motor with mechanical flat tappets is negligible relative to the internal pressures generated by the oil in between the moving metal parts. How can 100 or 200 psi make a difference pushing inwards when the oil is pushing outwards with 90,000psi or more? Why is the lower spring pressure the argument I hear a lot as to why modern designs don't have accelerated wear issues?

I get a lot of oil testing literature from ASTM at work, and if the manuals and tech bulletins weren't so expensive I'd pick some up for light reading. Tedd that's a good link - I'll have to dig through there a bit.

naphtali5725

lmao man!

coppercutlass

Fwiw all my cams I have broken in using rotella 15w40 and the lucas oil additive. never had one fail (lobe wise ) l. Once the cam is broken in I run straight 15w40 with no additives. this time around breaking in this new cam im about to install Im using 30wt with the oil additive then once that's over im going to synthetic . Now not to get off topic but what are the thermal properties of oil. On my dads 350 which was formerly one of my engines I always ran rotella 15w40 . I decided to just go to 10w30 . I noticed once the car was warmed up when I shut it off it would tick like something was expanding or contracting in the engine . I didn't make much of it but I went out and bought the cheap stp zddp additive and it stopped doing that noise. The only thing I can think of and this is just a though but im imagining oil had an effect on the amount of heat transfer within the engine ?

captjim

I can't counter with any real data to dispute this, however it does seem coincidental that at the same time as the changes were made to oil, new cam lobe wiping issues seemed to grow by leaps and bounds. You never heard of a cam lobe wiping then all of a sudden it was common-place. IMO, it is silly not to use Gibbs or other quality break-in oils on a rebuild considering the expense, it seems like good insurance. Again, IMHO.