Wise Performance
September 14th, 2013, 04:49 AM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Wakeman, OH
Posts: 1,063
Pretty cool article. I spent plenty of time talking to and have purchased product from Brad in the past and was pleased with the transaction. I don't see anyone else out there trying to push the Olds brand to the level he is.
September 14th, 2013, 06:07 AM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 7,827
I like Brad a lot, I think overall he is a good guy and has the best interest of the Olds community at heart.
But when it comes to the heads he plans to introduce he needs to just keep his mouth shut till they're ready. He'd avoid a lot of the backlash that way.
And the article was good, but a bit too much of an advertisement for Wise Performance than I would have liked to see. It should have had a little less "I did this" or "I did that".
Jmo.
But when it comes to the heads he plans to introduce he needs to just keep his mouth shut till they're ready. He'd avoid a lot of the backlash that way.
And the article was good, but a bit too much of an advertisement for Wise Performance than I would have liked to see. It should have had a little less "I did this" or "I did that".
Jmo.
September 18th, 2013, 12:37 PM
#5
I am busy finishing up on the 2013 EMC engine, It will have all of our new components INCLUDING the new Z heads.
Wise Performance Engineering basic EMC combo- 401ci DX SBO, 3.70 stroke, 4.155 bore, WPE 360cfm "Z" head, RPM intake,4150 1000cfm carb, all the tricks within the rules.
Any guess on HP/TQ?
Wise Performance Engineering basic EMC combo- 401ci DX SBO, 3.70 stroke, 4.155 bore, WPE 360cfm "Z" head, RPM intake,4150 1000cfm carb, all the tricks within the rules.
Any guess on HP/TQ?
September 20th, 2013, 05:22 AM
#10
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Braceville, Ohio
Posts: 1,972
I don't have a clue to the Hp/torque but I'm still glad to see they are keeping Oldsmobile in the spotlight. Keep up the good effort. I jokingly say "it's like trying to beat a dead horse. " I guess there's still a little life left. Ken
September 20th, 2013, 06:30 AM
#11
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Iowa
Posts: 79
Those numbers likely wont get you in the top 10 .
These numbers from gearheads78 should and maybe get you some money , 733HP/610TQ .
You have to understand that its not so much about the peak numbers
I hope Brad learned from his mistakes last year and has a better showing
Also , a big thank you to Brad for staying the course with these heads for the Oldsmobile crowd .
These numbers from gearheads78 should and maybe get you some money , 733HP/610TQ .
You have to understand that its not so much about the peak numbers
I hope Brad learned from his mistakes last year and has a better showing
Also , a big thank you to Brad for staying the course with these heads for the Oldsmobile crowd .
September 20th, 2013, 06:37 AM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Wakeman, OH
Posts: 1,063
Believe me, I nunderstand what it's all about. The fact that it is about an average influenced my guess of a realistic peak number. Like I said above, the limiting factor will be the intake, compression and hydraulic cam. To my knowledge the highest hp anyone has made with that intake and a hydraulic cam was 600hp. That was achieved by both Casey Walker and Milan Obradovich on two different motors that were also much larger than Brad's. It may make more than my guess but I would bet not by much.
September 20th, 2013, 06:53 AM
#15
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Iowa
Posts: 79
Believe me, I nunderstand what it's all about. The fact that it is about an average influenced my guess of a realistic peak number. Like I said above, the limiting factor will be the intake, compression and hydraulic cam. To my knowledge the highest hp anyone has made with that intake and a hydraulic cam was 600hp. That was achieved by both Casey Walker and Milan Obradovich on two different motors that were also much larger than Brad's. It may make more than my guess but I would bet not by much.
September 20th, 2013, 07:05 AM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Wakeman, OH
Posts: 1,063
Both of those engines were BB Olds motors. One I believe was a 468 and the other a 479. Both pump gas motors with highly ported Edelbrock's. Both used hydraulic rollers. Brad's heads are better without a doubt but it still has to draw through that intake which is good for a dual plane but will not keep up with those heads IMO.
September 20th, 2013, 07:32 AM
#17
Please read this years 2013 EMC rules, www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/ As they decided to go back to a street style engine build for competition, with hydrolic cams, 11.5 cr, and pump gas, 400ci minimum.
The winning Bradley built engine from last years 2012 EMC was a hemi and made 2487.1 points. 675hp~606tq Thats the bench mark to beat.
Last year 2012 was a learning year for us. We had a proven combo thay was close to fit the rules, but the CI was way to big and cost us points, WE MADE THE POWER NOT THE POINTS!
Its all about points and your CI. This year, we decided to be right on the CI limit, not because of any HP or TQ, We wanted to play the game and see what we could do in the points and hopefully have a contender for 2013.
Trust me, WE can make whatever power is needed, because we now have the components to do it. Its just a matter of dyno time.
You have to realize, The rules NEVER favor an Off brand, most every part on our engines are custom made or massaged is some way, because nothing is available. For instance, I need an 106* hydrolic roller cam, nobody has a core big enough so I have to settle on a 110*.
Will that hurt or peak TQ? My hypnosis is yes?
No excuses though, WE do what we have to do and make the best showing WE can.
I think Chads guess is close.
The winning Bradley built engine from last years 2012 EMC was a hemi and made 2487.1 points. 675hp~606tq Thats the bench mark to beat.
Last year 2012 was a learning year for us. We had a proven combo thay was close to fit the rules, but the CI was way to big and cost us points, WE MADE THE POWER NOT THE POINTS!
Its all about points and your CI. This year, we decided to be right on the CI limit, not because of any HP or TQ, We wanted to play the game and see what we could do in the points and hopefully have a contender for 2013.
Trust me, WE can make whatever power is needed, because we now have the components to do it. Its just a matter of dyno time.
You have to realize, The rules NEVER favor an Off brand, most every part on our engines are custom made or massaged is some way, because nothing is available. For instance, I need an 106* hydrolic roller cam, nobody has a core big enough so I have to settle on a 110*.
Will that hurt or peak TQ? My hypnosis is yes?
No excuses though, WE do what we have to do and make the best showing WE can.
I think Chads guess is close.
September 20th, 2013, 07:38 AM
#18
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Iowa
Posts: 79
Didnt they raise the upper rpm cut off to 7k for the street engines ? Also , do they not also start the tip-in rpm at 2500 still ?
Brad , care to mention what the exhaust side flows on these heads ?
Brad , care to mention what the exhaust side flows on these heads ?
Last edited by LX89mustang; September 20th, 2013 at 07:41 AM.
September 20th, 2013, 08:04 AM
#19
YES, its 3000-7000 rpm this year.
Our "Z" head exhaust cfm. 1.600 SS valve,(EMC head slightly better)
SF 600
.300 142
.400 180
.500 222
.600 251
.700 268
.800 277
.900 282
I have to say, Its not about how much CFM, Its about the quality of air and how it burns=efficiency.
This EMC head was designed for the competition and while stout in the Oldsmobile world, Its not max effort by any means.
Our "Z" head exhaust cfm. 1.600 SS valve,(EMC head slightly better)
SF 600
.300 142
.400 180
.500 222
.600 251
.700 268
.800 277
.900 282
I have to say, Its not about how much CFM, Its about the quality of air and how it burns=efficiency.
This EMC head was designed for the competition and while stout in the Oldsmobile world, Its not max effort by any means.
September 20th, 2013, 08:10 AM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 7,827
Brad, I thought Bullet had billet cores in which you could use any lobe sep.
I know it helps to use the selected manufacturers but at least you could get closer to what you want.
I have Lunati Hyd roller ground on 108's all the time, maybe give Bullet a call?
Something to point out. If that intake made 600 on a big block then it should be capable of making more than that on a smaller motor.
Case in point, when Nascar implemented the restrictor plates the first thing the teams did was lower the c.i. so they still had enough air to fill the cylinders at the higher rpm. Then Nascar said that was a no-no.
I think he'll be fine with that intake. In my experience it just needs more plenum.
Good luck Brad!!!
I know it helps to use the selected manufacturers but at least you could get closer to what you want.
I have Lunati Hyd roller ground on 108's all the time, maybe give Bullet a call?
Something to point out. If that intake made 600 on a big block then it should be capable of making more than that on a smaller motor.
Case in point, when Nascar implemented the restrictor plates the first thing the teams did was lower the c.i. so they still had enough air to fill the cylinders at the higher rpm. Then Nascar said that was a no-no.
I think he'll be fine with that intake. In my experience it just needs more plenum.
Good luck Brad!!!
Last edited by cutlassefi; September 20th, 2013 at 08:14 AM.
September 20th, 2013, 08:26 AM
#22
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Wakeman, OH
Posts: 1,063
Bullet doesn't have solid cores but I know one source that does. I just recently went through this fiasco as I just had a custom 45 deg lobe seperation 4/7 swap solid roller made for a project I'm working on and it required a round lobe solid core.
September 20th, 2013, 09:05 AM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Iowa
Posts: 79
YES, its 3000-7000 rpm this year.
Our "Z" head exhaust cfm. 1.600 SS valve,(EMC head slightly better)
SF 600
.300 142
.400 180
.500 222
.600 251
.700 268
.800 277
.900 282
I have to say, Its not about how much CFM, Its about the quality of air and how it burns=efficiency.
This EMC head was designed for the competition and while stout in the Oldsmobile world, Its not max effort by any means.
Our "Z" head exhaust cfm. 1.600 SS valve,(EMC head slightly better)
SF 600
.300 142
.400 180
.500 222
.600 251
.700 268
.800 277
.900 282
I have to say, Its not about how much CFM, Its about the quality of air and how it burns=efficiency.
This EMC head was designed for the competition and while stout in the Oldsmobile world, Its not max effort by any means.
Mark , I agree about the intake also . We wanted to do that style of intake when we went but it couldn't be found in stock
Brad . love that torque number given the engine size
September 20th, 2013, 09:57 AM
#24
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 7,827
September 21st, 2013, 01:19 PM
#25
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,898
Please read this years 2013 EMC rules, www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/ As they decided to go back to a street style engine build for competition, with hydrolic cams, 11.5 cr, and pump gas, 400ci minimum.
The winning Bradley built engine from last years 2012 EMC was a hemi and made 2487.1 points. 675hp~606tq Thats the bench mark to beat.
Last year 2012 was a learning year for us. We had a proven combo thay was close to fit the rules, but the CI was way to big and cost us points, WE MADE THE POWER NOT THE POINTS!
Its all about points and your CI. This year, we decided to be right on the CI limit, not because of any HP or TQ, We wanted to play the game and see what we could do in the points and hopefully have a contender for 2013.
Trust me, WE can make whatever power is needed, because we now have the components to do it. Its just a matter of dyno time.
You have to realize, The rules NEVER favor an Off brand, most every part on our engines are custom made or massaged is some way, because nothing is available. For instance, I need an 106* hydrolic roller cam, nobody has a core big enough so I have to settle on a 110*.
Will that hurt or peak TQ? My hypnosis is yes?
No excuses though, WE do what we have to do and make the best showing WE can.
I think Chads guess is close.
The winning Bradley built engine from last years 2012 EMC was a hemi and made 2487.1 points. 675hp~606tq Thats the bench mark to beat.
Last year 2012 was a learning year for us. We had a proven combo thay was close to fit the rules, but the CI was way to big and cost us points, WE MADE THE POWER NOT THE POINTS!
Its all about points and your CI. This year, we decided to be right on the CI limit, not because of any HP or TQ, We wanted to play the game and see what we could do in the points and hopefully have a contender for 2013.
Trust me, WE can make whatever power is needed, because we now have the components to do it. Its just a matter of dyno time.
You have to realize, The rules NEVER favor an Off brand, most every part on our engines are custom made or massaged is some way, because nothing is available. For instance, I need an 106* hydrolic roller cam, nobody has a core big enough so I have to settle on a 110*.
Will that hurt or peak TQ? My hypnosis is yes?
No excuses though, WE do what we have to do and make the best showing WE can.
I think Chads guess is close.
you better blow that number out of the water if you want be anywhere near the top ten.
i also think you would be better off with the victor, but your the expert.
i also dont believe you couldnt fine a core for your choice of LSA, i can find them anytime from more than one source...
September 21st, 2013, 02:10 PM
#26
Meant to say 650/585 average, and staying with the cam co. that sponsors the events,agree on Victor for power, but will put us out of our target rpm range. Going on the pump late next week if all goes well.
September 21st, 2013, 03:17 PM
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Iowa
Posts: 79
540 peak tq will put you at the bottom of the field. its only 1.35ft lbs per cube and no matter how flat your curve is, thats not EMC territory. why would you say the bench mark is last years 2487.1?? last year had one full point less comp, the rpm was 500 lower...plus this year the 3 best pull rule change will also bump the score...its the best rule change they have ever made.
you better blow that number out of the water if you want be anywhere near the top ten.
i also think you would be better off with the victor, but your the expert.
i also dont believe you couldnt fine a core for your choice of LSA, i can find them anytime from more than one source...
you better blow that number out of the water if you want be anywhere near the top ten.
i also think you would be better off with the victor, but your the expert.
i also dont believe you couldnt fine a core for your choice of LSA, i can find them anytime from more than one source...
Have you ever done EMC ?
September 21st, 2013, 03:28 PM
#28
Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 188
Totally Drooling Everywhere!!! This is Sweet!!!
I am busy finishing up on the 2013 EMC engine, It will have all of our new components INCLUDING the new Z heads.
Wise Performance Engineering basic EMC combo- 401ci DX SBO, 3.70 stroke, 4.155 bore, WPE 360cfm "Z" head, RPM intake,4150 1000cfm carb, all the tricks within the rules.
Any guess on HP/TQ?
Wise Performance Engineering basic EMC combo- 401ci DX SBO, 3.70 stroke, 4.155 bore, WPE 360cfm "Z" head, RPM intake,4150 1000cfm carb, all the tricks within the rules.
Any guess on HP/TQ?
September 21st, 2013, 05:52 PM
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 7,827
BTR does almost all his Comps on a 108. That's closer than a 110!
September 27th, 2013, 10:55 AM
#39
Well, The cam ended up ground at 107*, I can live with that.
Still waiting on parts, it will be a last minute dyno session...I hate this hurry up and wait S**T!
If all goes well, I will be there, If not, I can relax with a cocktail.
Little nugget for Y'all.
.3 213
.4 275
.5 319
.6 343
.7 360
.8 359
Still waiting on parts, it will be a last minute dyno session...I hate this hurry up and wait S**T!
If all goes well, I will be there, If not, I can relax with a cocktail.
Little nugget for Y'all.
.3 213
.4 275
.5 319
.6 343
.7 360
.8 359
