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Old May 2nd, 2012, 07:46 PM   #1
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455 oil problem.

Just refreshed my +40 455 with new rings, rod nearings, and all new gaskets. I have Edelbrock heads and torker intake. I installed a PCV valve in the intake and ran it to just below the carb flange in the rear. @ mopar style oil breathers in each valve cover, and a K&N clamp on breather on a cut down oil fill tube.
Here's the problem- oil saturates the K&N breather when driving it, enough to pool probably 2 teaspoons of oil off the intake. Whats the deal? I figured it would have enough air in air out unless those mopar breathers are to restritive.
Also forgot to mention we honed the block to clean up the bores and slight ridge. Speed pro file fit chrome-moly rings. Top gap at .18 2nd at .22.
Pump gas 93 octane. 9.8 to 1 compression estimated off of old buildup.
New rear main seal (neoprene).
Thanks in advance to anyone who contributes.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 06:04 AM   #2
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First off for everyones benefit, you don't have chrome-moly rings. You either have chrome faced or moly faced. When it comes to rings chrome-moly is an oxymoron, 1 is soft, 1 is hard.

If you have chrome faced rings then they probably haven't seated yet. If you have moly faced rings and the wall finish was correct then they're seated already. If so my guess would be that you may have the second ring in upside down. The bevel faces up on the top ring, it faces down on the second ring.

Also your bore is .040 over and the end gaps are .018 and .022 not .18 and .22, I hope.

Are the plugs wet? Smoke out of the exhaust? That info would help as well.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 10:09 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by cutlassefi View Post
First off for everyones benefit, you don't have chrome-moly rings. You either have chrome faced or moly faced. When it comes to rings chrome-moly is an oxymoron, 1 is soft, 1 is hard.

If you have chrome faced rings then they probably haven't seated yet. If you have moly faced rings and the wall finish was correct then they're seated already. If so my guess would be that you may have the second ring in upside down. The bevel faces up on the top ring, it faces down on the second ring.

Also your bore is .040 over and the end gaps are .018 and .022 not .18 and .22, I hope.

Are the plugs wet? Smoke out of the exhaust? That info would help as well.
If the rings arent seated yet its prob blowby it is also possible to have the incorrect pcv
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 11:19 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jims2000lt View Post
Just refreshed my +40 455 with new rings, rod nearings, and all new gaskets. I have Edelbrock heads and torker intake. I installed a PCV valve in the intake and ran it to just below the carb flange in the rear. @ mopar style oil breathers in each valve cover, and a K&N clamp on breather on a cut down oil fill tube.
Here's the problem- oil saturates the K&N breather when driving it, enough to pool probably 2 teaspoons of oil off the intake. Whats the deal? I figured it would have enough air in air out unless those mopar breathers are to restritive.
Also forgot to mention we honed the block to clean up the bores and slight ridge. Speed pro file fit chrome-moly rings. Top gap at .18 2nd at .22.
Pump gas 93 octane. 9.8 to 1 compression estimated off of old buildup.
New rear main seal (neoprene).
Thanks in advance to anyone who contributes.
Before jumping on you for technical errors, why don't we clarify this:

So you are running a pcv valve from the intake manifold to the carburetor? I assume you mean you drilled a hole in the intake over the lifter valley and installed a grommet? Is that correct?
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 06:57 PM   #5
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Yes on the PCV intake question.
18-22 .018 .022 whatever the right answer is for decmal place. Checked every top and 2nd ring in easch bore with feeler gauges.
Honed block with 220 grit then 400 grit stones.
No smoke out exhaust. Will check plugs tomorrow.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 07:46 PM   #6
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Ok, so to be clear...you are getting oil out of the fill tube breather or the breathers on the valve covers?
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 08:15 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by jims2000lt View Post
I installed a PCV valve in the intake and ran it to just below the carb flange in the rear...
oil saturates the K&N breather when driving it, enough to pool probably 2 teaspoons of oil off the intake.
Could you describe, or perhaps illustrate, your arrangement a bit more clearly for us?

It seems like:
  • 3 separate breather filters, one on each valve cover, and the third on the oil filler, and
  • a connection between the intake manifold and the carburetor mounting flange.
If this is correct, it would appear that you have connected manifold vacuum (intake manifold) to manifold vacuum (carb mounting flange), which is to say you've done nothing, so naturally, oil will blow out the easiest way it can.

You need to connect manifold vacuum to the inside of the engine, and the inside of the engine to the great outdoors, so the engine can suck air into one side of the engine and out the other.

Also, I may be wrong, but three separate ways for air to get into the engine, even if the vacuum is hooked up correctly, may provide inadequate velocity for the air entering the engine to keep the oil inside, rather than letting it blow out (the breeze going in is so weak that the oil doesn't have to flow upstream in order to get out).

- Eric
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 08:19 PM   #8
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Ok, so to be clear...you are getting oil out of the fill tube breather or the breathers on the valve covers?
Fill tube breather. Nothing from valve covers.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 08:21 PM   #9
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Nah Eric, he punched a hole in the smooth part of the Torker in the back over the lifter valley...then he put a grommet and a pcv in it and connected it to the carburetor. I thought the same thing at first and then I remembered seeing it done that way at a car show or two. That's why I ask to clarify that earlier in the thread.

Steve
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 08:24 PM   #10
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Yeah. Clarity helps.

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Old May 3rd, 2012, 08:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDchanic View Post
Could you describe, or perhaps illustrate, your arrangement a bit more clearly for us?


It seems like:
  • 3 separate breather filters, one on each valve cover, and the third on the oil filler, and
  • a connection between the intake manifold and the carburetor mounting flange.
If this is correct, it would appear that you have connected manifold vacuum (intake manifold) to manifold vacuum (carb mounting flange), which is to say you've done nothing, so naturally, oil will blow out the easiest way it can.

You need to connect manifold vacuum to the inside of the engine, and the inside of the engine to the great outdoors, so the engine can suck air into one side of the engine and out the other.

Also, I may be wrong, but three separate ways for air to get into the engine, even if the vacuum is hooked up correctly, may provide inadequate velocity for the air entering the engine to keep the oil inside, rather than letting it blow out (the breeze going in is so weak that the oil doesn't have to flow upstream in order to get out).

- Eric
I think your on the right track. Yes 3 breathers. 1 on each valve cover and 1 on the lio fill tube.=3
The PCV is in the flat part of the Torker Intake in back near the distributor with a hose running to a fitting just below the rear carb flange.
Going to call my machineist this Saturday to ask about the rings I bought and to get his 2 cents also. Will also check the plugs tommorrow night after work.
Besides all this the car runs great with 65 psi oil on start up and never drops below 40 when warmed up.
Thanks again to everyone so far. We'll figure this out eventually.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 08:28 PM   #12
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Nah Eric, he punched a hole in the smooth part of the Torker in the back over the lifter valley...then he put a grommet and a pcv in it and connected it to the carburetor. I thought the same thing at first and then I remembered seeing it done that way at a car show or two. That's why I ask to clarify that earlier in the thread.

Steve
Yup.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 09:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jims2000lt View Post
Fill tube breather. Nothing from valve covers.
Do you know if you put the baffle back in over the timing chain? The oil filler neck baffle...
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Old May 4th, 2012, 06:10 AM   #14
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Do you know if you put the baffle back in over the timing chain? The oil filler neck baffle...
That's a very good question. Should be easy enough to check.

Jims2000- ask your machinist about rod side clearance as well. And if he says they were chrome moly rings ask him to show you where it says that on the box.

Keep us posted.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 08:08 PM   #15
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I installed the baffle. I had the filler tube hole in the block plugged for the last 10 years with an aluminum plug.
Went with current set-up figureing it would be better.
Not trying to argue with the whole chrome moly thing here. Just trying to fix a messy oil problem.
We'll be checking the plugs out tonight sometime.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 08:28 PM   #16
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I installed the baffle. I had the filler tube hole in the block plugged for the last 10 years with an aluminum plug.
Went with current set-up figureing it would be better.
Not trying to argue with the whole chrome moly thing here. Just trying to fix a messy oil problem.
We'll be checking the plugs out tonight sometime.
I have heard of guys having oil come out of the fill tube before but for the life of me I can't figure out why or how. With the bottom of the timing chain area open to the oil pan you would figure the oil would run back to the pan immediately. I have my block plugged where the fill tube would normally go and on one cold day I drove the new engine on about a 35 mile drive. I had really high oil pressure and the block was cold on start up and when I shut it off I noticed a minute amount of oil around the lip of the plug. It hasn't happened since but I know there is some pressure up at that point.

I'm interested to know how the plugs look.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 08:44 PM   #17
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Just checked all 8 plugs and their bone dry and look good as far as fuel mixture/burn.
Rings are Plasma Moly Ductile Iron.
Cam is a Lunati VooDoo Grind from Rocket Racing. 318A4LUN part # HYD
288 296
231 239
517 541 lift
110
Comp Cams 3/8s pushrods
Harland Sharp Roller Rockers
Motor pulls about 11 inches of Vacumn.
I'm thinking about pulling the fill tube and plugging it again. Keeping one breather and moving PCV back to passenger side valve cover and running hose back tocarb base. We'll see. I dont want to do this and have oil strat finding its way out in other areas.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 11:27 PM   #18
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I would plug the oil fill tube or put a fill tube in with a twist cap on it. leave all else the same.
I have put the PCV in the intake a number of times, and it works very well.
The only thing I found I needed to do was put a baffle for the PCV valve, so as not to suck oil.

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Old May 5th, 2012, 12:22 AM   #19
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The only other solution is to drain the oil and run it that way...at least it won't leak out of the breather Ok, maybe it's too late and I need to go to sleep...I'm getting goofy now
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Old May 5th, 2012, 07:23 AM   #20
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The only other solution is to drain the oil and run it that way...at least it won't leak out of the breather Ok, maybe it's too late and I need to go to sleep...I'm getting goofy now
I'll get my neighbor to try the no oil=no leak thing first. I dont care for him anyway. Ha! I will pull the tube and plug in in the next few days, change the oil, and drive it and get back to you guys.
Thanks for all the input and help; Jim
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Old May 5th, 2012, 08:58 AM   #21
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Thanks for the additional build info. Sounds like you have a plan in place to try other things. Keep us posted.
Fwiw those rings should be seated by now.

There's a lot of bad info on the net, just trying to make sure we knew what we were dealing with, thanks.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 02:46 PM   #22
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Thanks for the additional build info. Sounds like you have a plan in place to try other things. Keep us posted.
Fwiw those rings should be seated by now.

There's a lot of bad info on the net, just trying to make sure we knew what we were dealing with, thanks.
I hear ya there and thanks again. Also as of right now the motor probably only has 50-70 miles on it but I've been easy on it which got me wondering about the oil in the first place. Probably go a few hundred miles before I start going full throttle with er.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 03:15 PM   #23
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If you remove and plug the PCV line, and remove the breathers, with the engine running at idle and warmed up. Do you get any any blowby?

Based on what your saying I think the rings are not fully seated. What you can do for the time being is reassemble everything back, and run a 3/8 line stubbed into one of your breather holes to your air cleaner base, and get a bit more ventilation there until your rings seat. That should eliminate the oil coming out the fill tube.
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Old May 6th, 2012, 06:08 AM   #24
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I hear ya there and thanks again. Also as of right now the motor probably only has 50-70 miles on it but I've been easy on it which got me wondering about the oil in the first place. Probably go a few hundred miles before I start going full throttle with er.
You need to load that motor to properly seat those rings. You don't have to hammer on it but a couple of nice mid throttle acceleration runs should do the trick.
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Old May 6th, 2012, 09:42 PM   #25
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Good suggestions on pcv line and driving. Raining here but I will be working on car soon to fix up this oil issue. Thanks again guys.
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Old May 6th, 2012, 09:42 PM
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