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Old September 30th, 2010, 10:44 AM   #1
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1967 W30 442 rear end

For sale is a mint condition 1967 W30 rear end. The unit is a 4 pinion, posi traction with 3:55 gears. Please call for info and pics..thanks!...618-282-6560 or email me at classics@htc.net
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Old October 17th, 2010, 05:26 PM   #2
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For sale is a mint condition 1967 W30 rear end. The unit is a 4 pinion, posi traction with 3:55 gears. Please call for info and pics..thanks!...618-282-6560 or email me at classics@htc.net
whats the axle tube code? send pm with price
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Old October 17th, 2010, 05:49 PM   #3
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Not tying to give you a hard time, but but I would like to know how do you know that is a W30 rear end?
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Old October 17th, 2010, 06:33 PM   #4
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Not tying to give you a hard time, but but I would like to know how do you know that is a W30 rear end?

I talked to him and as he explained it to me it was a cone style 4 pinion gear posi that was only used on w30's. I think he told me it was a SJ code?

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Old October 17th, 2010, 06:45 PM   #5
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I talked to him and as he explained it to me it was a cone style 4 pinion gear posi that was only used on w30's.
Henry
I have limited knowledge on this but I am pretty sure the 4 pin cone type posi was used in others than just the W-30 cars and am pretty sure GTO also used it. I got one for my 67 project in 390 ratio.... Someone set me straight...
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Old October 17th, 2010, 06:55 PM   #6
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I had a 67 442 convert with a 4 pinion, 3:90, ten bolt, 8.2 posi. It was axle code TH and mine was a non-W30 of course. SJ is the code for a 3:55 posi but I don't see any breakout for W-30 and non W-30. I thought all 67 W-30's had 3:90 geared 10 bolts? As far as I remember the 4 pinion 10 bolt posi was used in all 4 speed 442's in 1967.
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Old October 17th, 2010, 06:59 PM   #7
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I have limited knowledge on this but I am pretty sure the 4 pin cone type posi was used in others than just the W-30 cars and am pretty sure GTO also used it. I got one for my 67 project in 390 ratio.... Someone set me straight...
67 GTO HO (360hp) cars used the 4 pinion cone posi but the axle ID codes are not the same between Olds and Pontiac.

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Old October 17th, 2010, 07:24 PM   #8
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I talked to him and as he explained it to me it was a cone style 4 pinion gear posi that was only used on w30's. I think he told me it was a SJ code?

Henry
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Originally Posted by Oldsmaniac View Post
I have limited knowledge on this but I am pretty sure the 4 pin cone type posi was used in others than just the W-30 cars and am pretty sure GTO also used it. I got one for my 67 project in 390 ratio.... Someone set me straight...
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I had a 67 442 convert with a 4 pinion, 3:90, ten bolt, 8.2 posi. It was axle code TH and mine was a non-W30 of course. SJ is the code for a 3:55 posi but I don't see any breakout for W-30 and non W-30. I thought all 67 W-30's had 3:90 geared 10 bolts? As far as I remember the 4 pinion 10 bolt posi was used in all 4 speed 442's in 1967.
Well, this is exactly why I asked. Yes, the '67 W30s used a 4-pinion carrier. But the 4-pinion carrier was not exclusive to the W30. There is published info on the '67 W30s that explain they came with Anti-Spin 4-pinion carriers. I have to admit that the way it is said that one could think it was exclusive, but if you read it carefully, it make no reference to being exclusive. A *lack* of other reference to the 4-pinion carrier (like in the Chassis Service Manual) might make one think they were exclusive to the W30 too. But they're not. I have a '67 442 with 3.90 Anti-Spin and a 4-pinion carrier, and I know of other similar Non-W30s having them. Since these *are* Pontiac rears, I'd expect Pontiac to have them too. What I don't know is what rears the 4-pinions ended up in. I've seen nothing to support that they went into all 4-speeds in '67. They're a bit of a ghost as far as documentation goes.

'67 W30s had Q5/Q9 coded 4.33 gears as standard, with 3.90 and 3.55 optional. The W30s were the only cars to come with the 4.33s (and their Q5/Q9 codes) from the factory. So *that* would be the only thing that would identify the rear as being a W30 rear.
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Old October 17th, 2010, 09:29 PM   #9
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The GMPD parts book suggests the 4 pinion posi was commonly used with 3.55 and higher number ratios.
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Old October 18th, 2010, 07:43 AM   #10
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I think you guys pretty much summed it up.I've had my fair share of the 4-pinion units,but most of them came from GTO rears.If that came from a 67 W30,then it was an earlier-dated car,as the later 67's started getting the 12-bolt O-axle.
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Old October 18th, 2010, 08:22 AM   #11
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.If that came from a 67 W30,then it was an earlier-dated car,as the later 67's started getting the 12-bolt O-axle.
I do not believe that is true. None of the '67 W30s came with O-types. The O-type was originally slated to be used for the '67 W30s as late as December (still prior to when any were built), but early tests found them "shucking gears" in the O-types and they changed to the P-type with the 4-pinion carrier and went to 4.33 gears as standard. Word was the steeper gears for the O-type were not yet made by Olds and they came from Chevy and didn't hold up to the weight and torque of the Olds, thus the shucking.

From what I understand, Olds started putting "non-performance" O-types in A-bodies starting circa late spring, but I can find no documentation of this.
But the performance O-types (G88 3.91 and G92 3.42) were an option thru the end of the year. The P-type (G93 3.55 and G94 3.90) were still the standard issue thru the end of the year.
I have production figures that support this.

In fact, not many of the performance O-types (G88 3.91 and G92 3.42) made it into production in '67: only approx 100 of each, and most of them during the last few months.

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Old October 18th, 2010, 09:01 AM   #12
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i do not believe that is true. None of the '67 w30s came with o-types. The o-type was originally slated to be used for the '67 w30s as late as december (still prior to when any were built), but early tests found them "shucking gears" in the o-types and they changed to the p-type with the 4-pinion carrier and went to 4.33 gears as standard. Word was the steeper gears for the o-type were not yet made by olds and they came from chevy and didn't hold up to the weight and torque of the olds, thus the shucking.

From what i understand, olds started putting "non-performance" o-types in a-bodies starting circa late spring, but i can find no documentation of this.
But the performance o-types (g88 3.91 and g92 3.42) were an option thru the end of the year. The p-type (g93 3.55 and g94 3.90) were still the standard issue thru the end of the year.
I have production figures that support this.

Ok -- heres my 2 cents worth --
my 67 w30 automatic (th400) car came from factory with type p 4-cone posi with 3.90 gears and th cold --- that code is found with 66 codes and bodes well with the last minute decision to switch to the type p rears for the w cars. As kurt has said --- 4.33 with the q codes were used in the 4-speed w cars, but the automatic cars all got the 3.90 as std. As for the tube code on a type p 4-cone posi with an otional ratio in a w30 automatic car?? Your guess is as good as mine. Never knew of one --- of course thats not to say that there werent any???

In fact, not many of the performance o-types (g88 3.91 and g92 3.42) made it into production in '67: Only approx 100 of each, and most of them during the last few months.
t.
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Old October 18th, 2010, 09:10 AM   #13
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I talked to him and as he explained it to me it was a cone style 4 pinion gear posi that was only used on w30's. I think he told me it was a SJ code?

Henry
My book shows SJ code 4.55 anti-spin for a 66. No listing in my resource of SJ code being used in 67. I suppose it COULD MAYBE be akin to my TH as its code was listed in the 66 group also? I would have my doubts. My logical guess is that this rear in question is a 66 442 unit.??
Again -- my 2 cents worth! But what do i know ?? I only bought one of the 125 or so units produced with TH400 and saw with my own eyes what was in it from the factory!!
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Old October 18th, 2010, 09:12 AM   #14
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I do not believe that is true. None of the '67 W30s came with O-types. The O-type was originally slated to be used for the '67 W30s as late as December (still prior to when any were built), but early tests found them "shucking gears" in the O-types and they changed to the P-type with the 4-pinion carrier and went to 4.33 gears as standard. Word was the steeper gears for the O-type were not yet made by Olds and they came from Chevy and didn't hold up to the weight and torque of the Olds, thus the shucking.

From what I understand, Olds started putting "non-performance" O-types in A-bodies starting circa late spring, but I can find no documentation of this.
But the performance O-types (G88 3.91 and G92 3.42) were an option thru the end of the year. The P-type (G93 3.55 and G94 3.90) were still the standard issue thru the end of the year.
I have production figures that support this.

In fact, not many of the performance O-types (G88 3.91 and G92 3.42) made it into production in '67: only approx 100 of each, and most of them during the last few months.
Had a G92 Type O 3.42 posi in the 67 442 I bought a few years back and build date on that car was 04D so that bears out Kurts above statement.
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Old October 18th, 2010, 09:46 AM   #15
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My book shows SJ code 4.55 anti-spin for a 66. No listing in my resource of SJ code being used in 67. I suppose it COULD MAYBE be akin to my TH as its code was listed in the 66 group also? I would have my doubts. My logical guess is that this rear in question is a 66 442 unit.??
Again -- my 2 cents worth! But what do i know ?? I only bought one of the 125 or so units produced with TH400 and saw with my own eyes what was in it from the factory!!
Shouldn't it be real easy to tell if it a 66 or 67 rear by the sping perches?
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Old October 18th, 2010, 10:05 AM   #16
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My book shows SJ code 3.55 anti-spin for a 66. No listing in my resource of SJ code being used in 67. I suppose it COULD MAYBE be akin to my TH as its code was listed in the 66 group also? I would have my doubts. My logical guess is that this rear in question is a 66 442 unit.??
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I talked to him and as he explained it to me it was a cone style 4 pinion gear posi that was only used on w30's. I think he told me it was a SJ code?
Henry
SJ was indeed the P-type 3.55 in '67. I don't doubt that it is a '67 P-type 3.55 Anti-Spin with a 4-pinion carrier. I just question the certainty that it came from a W30, as is *may* or *may not* have.
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Old October 18th, 2010, 01:28 PM   #17
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The Type O was in production by May 1966 and was discussed in that month's Service Guild. The 4.33 gears for it were available through GMPD by October 1, 1966. The 4.66 was not shown in the Jan 67 price schedule so it came out later than that; the 5.00 ratio was produced after 12-67 as it does not appear in that month's parts book.

It has become popular among ebayers to call everything for Olds a W30 part. you can find W30 radios, etc. these days
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Old October 18th, 2010, 08:12 PM   #18
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I suppose anything is possible.I have seen & worked-on a 67 W30 with a 12-bolt O-axle,and the ratio jived with the info on the car,but who knows.Anything can happen in 40 years.
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Old December 14th, 2011, 12:17 PM   #19
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SJ was indeed the P-type 3.55 in '67. I don't doubt that it is a '67 P-type 3.55 Anti-Spin with a 4-pinion carrier. I just question the certainty that it came from a W30, as is *may* or *may not* have.

Im just pulling a SJ code 3.55 posi with the 4-pinion carrier rear.............................................. ............................................






Out of a .................................................. .................................................. .....................................














67 442


Does that mean i can sell it as a w30 rear ?

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Old December 14th, 2011, 01:52 PM   #20
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Im just pulling a SJ code 3.55 posi with the 4-pinion carrier rear.............................................. ............................................






Out of a .................................................. .................................................. .....................................














67 442


Does that mean i can sell it as a w30 rear ?
You would be CORRECT if your sale ad said: 'This rear MAY have come from a W30 car! " LOL!!
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Old December 14th, 2011, 02:29 PM   #21
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Im just pulling a SJ code 3.55 posi with the 4-pinion carrier rear.............................................. ............................................
Out of a
67 442
Can you get me the body tag info from that car? I'm keeping track of where I can find them! A pic would be great.


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Old December 14th, 2011, 03:24 PM   #22
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Can you get me the body tag info from that car? I'm keeping track of where I can find them! A pic would be great.


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Here you go.



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Old December 14th, 2011, 03:26 PM   #23
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You would be CORRECT if your sale ad said: 'This rear MAY have come from a W30 car! " LOL!!

But i know it didnt!
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Old December 14th, 2011, 06:28 PM   #24
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Here you go.
Thanks! Wow, that's a late build!! 3rd week of July!

Could you get me the VIN too? Now I want to document it as a late build too!
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Old December 14th, 2011, 06:46 PM   #25
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Yes it is. All original car too. Only thing missing is the trans, and title. No options. Well other then chrome wheels, buckets, am radio, and heater. Im sure it was one hell of a cool car back in its day.

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Old December 15th, 2011, 05:36 AM   #26
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Yes it is. All original car too. Only thing missing is the trans, and title. No options. Well other then chrome wheels, buckets, am radio, and heater. Im sure it was one hell of a cool car back in its day.

Thanks again. Of note, the latest '67 model build I've found was built the 4th week of July. The earliest I have was built the 5th week of Aug.! ('66)
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Old December 15th, 2011, 07:54 AM   #27
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Well thats cool. Interesting info. Thats really cool that you save it and keep record. Did you get the info off the red 67 442 i just had? That one went to Utah and is getting restored.
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Old December 15th, 2011, 08:34 AM   #28
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My '67 442 has an M21 trans and 3:90 gears (IIRC, "TH" code). its a relatively early (Oct. 66) build car. Short of pulling the cover, is there any way for me to tell if its a 4 pinion or not? Not that I'd do much with that info. (and being its a vert, can't very well claim its a W30 even if I was inclined to). Still, Im curious (just not so curious to pull the cover for no good reason).
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Old December 15th, 2011, 08:49 AM   #29
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Well thats cool. Interesting info. Thats really cool that you save it and keep record. Did you get the info off the red 67 442 i just had? That one went to Utah and is getting restored.
Not that I remember. I don't keep track of every one I run across, just ones that are of particular interest for various reasons.

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My '67 442 has an M21 trans and 3:90 gears (IIRC, "TH" code). its a relatively early (Oct. 66) build car. Short of pulling the cover, is there any way for me to tell if its a 4 pinion or not? Not that I'd do much with that info. (and being its a vert, can't very well claim its a W30 even if I was inclined to). Still, Im curious (just not so curious to pull the cover for no good reason).
You'd have to pull the cover. Would be interesting to find out. I have not seen ones that early, but I haven't seen *any* carriers that early, one way or another. The 4-pinnions were in '66 GTOs from what I've hear, so I wouldn't know what to expect!
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Old December 15th, 2011, 08:52 AM   #30
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Well, next spring, maybe I'll go ahead and buy a gasket and some earl (and some posi additive). Or maybe I'll just let laziness be my guide (as usual) and stay curious.
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Old February 15th, 2012, 04:44 PM   #31
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is there anything on the body tag telling you that it is w-30, just curious
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Old February 15th, 2012, 05:15 PM   #32
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is there anything on the body tag telling you that it is w-30, just curious
No. That would be waaayyy toooo simple!!! Ugh! It
takes either a build sheet, window sticker or POP. Or be like me and knew you bought it new off the showroom floor!!! LOL!!
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Old February 16th, 2012, 06:19 AM   #33
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I just picked up a 66' 442 4 speed convertible and has all the signs that it is a legit car. On one of the web sites it shows a V on the body tag same as the V on this body tag. Anyway it said that the V was for 442 trim, does this verify it is a 442.
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Old February 18th, 2012, 08:24 PM   #34
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A couple of things to add to this conversation. I have seen a 4 pin posi in a very late 07D build 66 442,so that would lend credence that all 67 cars had the 4 pin posi. Like previously posted,only the 3.55 and lower (numerically higher) rears would have the 4 pin posi. There was a 67 3.23 posi rear for sale on ROP and I had the guy check it and it was a 2 pin unit. I know of two 67 442's that came with the type O 3.08 posi rear. How many of you knew they made two different 2 pin posi units? There was the smaller pin and the larger pin units.

How about the very elusive 67 W 30 4.11 rear? I had a 67 W-30 that had a 4.11 rear. You could see where the original code 'SD' had been hammered to hide it and a Q? stamped next to it. This was way back in the day when we didn't document like we do now. I talked to Curt Anderson about this rear when I got it and next time I talk to him,I'll see if he kept the info. The car also had the very rare shoulder harness option,I sent them to Curt. If you look in the 67 PIM (aka assembly manual) in section 4,page 1.04 you will see the performance axle G-80 & G-89 L-78 W30 only 4.11 rear axle ratio.I did not get the build date from the car,so that's unknown. I put the rear under a 66 442 track pack car I sold to a guy in CA. It's a black Sport Coupe with red interior and was owned by Jim Stohlman after the guy I sold it to. I talked to a guy @ the MN Nats in 04(I think) that bought the car from Jim Stohlman. I told him about the rear end and he said he would check it and let me know but I never heard from him. The car was originally a 3 speed car,so if anybody knows of a 66 442 black/red OAI car with a 2B on the cowl tag,check it out for the rear I put in the car. I know that most of the W30 cars had the 4.33 but I'm telling you that the 67 W 30 I had,had a 4.11 posi,was it factory? not knowing the complete history it's hard to say. The drawing of that page in the PIM had a revision date of 8-66,so it could be that they had intended to continue the 66 W 30 4.11 ratio into the 67 W 30 production. Maybe the very early 67 W 30 cars had the 4.11 and the later cars the 4.33,I can't say but I'm positive the rear I had came in the car because I do remember it had the 67 spring mounts. If anybody can add to this,I would very much like to hear from you.

Thanks

Mike

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Old February 18th, 2012, 08:53 PM   #35
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While we're on the rear end subject,I have a very nice clean 67 442 posi (code TH) 3.90 type "P' rear axle for sale. It came from a 50K mile car that sat for many many years. It's very clean inside and no visible wear or broken parts. Oddly enough,it came from a 3 speed car. $1,000 + shipping.

Thanks

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Old February 18th, 2012, 08:59 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by kelly bakies View Post
I just picked up a 66' 442 4 speed convertible and has all the signs that it is a legit car. On one of the web sites it shows a V on the body tag same as the V on this body tag. Anyway it said that the V was for 442 trim, does this verify it is a 442.
Kelly
YES,5V denotes the 442 option in 66 & 67 except on Fremont cars that do not have option codes on the cowl tags.
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Old February 19th, 2012, 11:09 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by 66-3X2 442 View Post
How about the very elusive 67 W 30 4.11 rear? I had a 67 W-30 that had a 4.11 rear. You could see where the original code 'SD' had been hammered to hide it and a Q? stamped next to it. This was way back in the day when we didn't document like we do now. I talked to Curt Anderson about this rear when I got it and next time I talk to him,I'll see if he kept the info. ...............The drawing of that page in the PIM had a revision date of 8-66,so it could be that they had intended to continue the 66 W 30 4.11 ratio into the 67 W 30 production. Maybe the very early 67 W 30 cars had the 4.11 and the later cars the 4.33,I can't say but I'm positive the rear I had came in the car because I do remember it had the 67 spring mounts. If anybody can add to this,I would very much like to hear from you.
Mike
Good info, Mike.
To add to what you said, I have a 1-5-67 to that page 394501 pg 1.04. It does not change any of this related info, but does bring the info up to January.
Also, go to page 1.06 . I believe you'll have 11/11/66 revision. I have a 1/5/67 revision to that too. And that *does* show significant change:
Rev Y on 12/9/66 changes the Q5/Q9 codes change from 4.11 to 4.33. Interesting that the same code was used for 2 different ratios. And this was well before the '67 W30 production starting in February.
Significant also is that with as of this 1/5/67 revision level, they also *removed* the Q7 and Q3 4.11 option from the "O" Olds rears, leaving the 3.91 as the max gear in the "O" rear.
This is all supporting info on how Olds went back to the 10-bolt (instead of their new "O" rear) for the '67 W30s.
With 4.33, 3.90, and 3.55 as "available" gears for the '67 W30, it wouldn't surprise me that someone would want 4.11s. My guess is that the 4.11s you had were dealer installed.
FWIW, I have a Q5 P-type rear that came out of a '67 W30.
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Old February 19th, 2012, 11:34 AM   #38
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Good info, Mike.
To add to what you said, I have a 1-5-67 to that page 394501 pg 1.04. It does not change any of this related info, but does bring the info up to January.
Also, go to page 1.06 . I believe you'll have 11/11/66 revision. I have a 1/5/67 revision to that too. And that *does* show significant change:
Rev Y on 12/9/66 changes the Q5/Q9 codes change from 4.11 to 4.33. Interesting that the same code was used for 2 different ratios. And this was well before the '67 W30 production starting in February.
Significant also is that with as of this 1/5/67 revision level, they also *removed* the Q7 and Q3 4.11 option from the "O" Olds rears, leaving the 3.91 as the max gear in the "O" rear.
This is all supporting info on how Olds went back to the 10-bolt (instead of their new "O" rear) for the '67 W30s.
With 4.33, 3.90, and 3.55 as "available" gears for the '67 W30, it wouldn't surprise me that someone would want 4.11s. My guess is that the 4.11s you had were dealer installed.
FWIW, I have a Q5 P-type rear that came out of a '67 W30.
Kurt

Yes,that's very possible that the 4.11 gears were dealer installed and as I said,not knowing the complete history of the car,anything is possible. The only thing that got my curiosity up was the hammering of the SD code and the Q? code stamped next to it. I called Curt this morning and he remembers the rear and he's still pi$$ed I didn't get a picture of it. He's going to dig through his stack and see if he kept any of the info I gave him. My page 1.06 is the 11-11-66 revision and I would like to get any of the updated pages if I could from you. I'm not in to 67's but I like learning bout them. I can send you the info on my car if you still want it. It's better for me to fax it,my scanner isn't working.

Thanks

Mike
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 11:42 AM   #39
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 11:42 AM
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