bluecutlassconv

69 cutlass with factory air. AC is not working. Looking at switching to a vintage air system. Anyone have any opionions good or bad. Seems like cost of new system versus total rebuild of factory system is half the cost.

Local Hero

I have Vintage Air in a non-Olds. I couldn't be happier. It was a factory air car that I plumbed the VA through the factory vents. I never installed an AC system before and the instructions were very clear and their tech support was very good. If you're interested, here is a tech article I wrote highlighting the installation.

http://www.classiccougargarage.net/s...ead.php?tid=56

Since I wrote that many years ago, VA has offered a Generation IV system that is even better.

Fun71

So what do you need to replace on the factory system?

Reman compressor and drier is what I put on my car for under $150, then flush and recharge. Sounds cheaper and easier than tearing out the factory system then purchasing and installing new system.

joe_padavano

^^^This.

Other than the misconception that newer must be better, why not just replace what is required to get the existing system working? Simply installing a new compressor and recharging the system is much cheaper and easier than tearing the dash apart to install an aftermarket unit.

Personally, I'd convert the system to a CCOT design using one of the POA valve eliminator kits available from the aftermarket A/C providers.




You can also get Sanden compressor replacements for the A6 compressor, both in the standard small size and in a housing that looks like an A6 and fits the stock brackets.

cutlassjoe

I did VA on my 72' last year and really like it. My car was a non A/C car. It took some time but it works good and the heat is good. If I had an A/C car I would rather stick with the stock one and fix it to make it work. A lot easier to do in the long run IMO.

joe_padavano

I'll also point out that the aftermarket A/C systems typically do not have the fresh air feature that the factory system has. All HVAC air is recirculated in the compartment.

bluecutlassconv

Thanks to all. I am not sure what all is really bad, all I know is it has not worked in a while and its still R12. Also don't now if all the vacuum switch's are working. Also all the duct work has been pulled out. I know I have some of it but some plastics parts are in rough shape.

Fun71

There aren't any vacuum switches for the AC on your year car other than the air doors, but I guess that doesn't really matter if you don't have any duct work.

Ozzie

I'd vote for retaining and repairing the original if all needed components are available. A compressor change might be in order if the replacement would be an improvement over the A6's swash plate/piston web design shortfall.

banny

I restore factory ac/heater parts and its about the same to restore your system as it is to go aftermarket like vintage or CAA. These are a few pics of a 70 cutlass wagon I did a little while back. I usually tell guys its up to their personal preference. And personally would go with a poa valve over the cycling switch. Cost is the same to have it rebuilt vs the poa delete kit and it can be recalibrated to work with 134a.

Olds64

Don't forget to install new hoses if you redo your original system. I retrofitted a 90 Buick Estate wagon with Olds 307 from R12 to R134a years ago. Finding hoses to fit it was a PITA. I had to order 3 or 4 times from different parts stores to get the right part.

MDchanic

Nice looking work.

- Eric

steverw

Wow banny your work looks great! Do you have the means to pressure test an evaporator? I am very near sending mine off to be checked for a leak. 1967 442. Also was about to send a couple of hoses and in need of a hose and a compressor.
Sorry not trying to hijack this thread. I agree restore the original, its what im doing anyway.

Ozzie

I agree. Constantly cycling the compressor, especially at highway speeds, can be detrimental to the compressor & clutch.

banny

Appreciate it.

Thanks, yeah I use nitrogen to pressure check parts. I'm assuming you are planning to send your parts to Classic Auto Air. I use to work for them when I lived in Tampa.

That is one of the complaints that people have with those cycling switches. As mentioned above by Joe, a sanden or one of those aluminum a6 replacements like that pro6ten comp would be better suited as they can handle the cycling.

hookem horns

Here is my write up on VA from a few years ago and I am still happy with it. Makes sense if your factory system is gutted and you like the cleaner (non-stock) look under the hood.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ditioning.html

Lots of options to keep the factory system as others mention above too.

bluecutlassconv

I have a lot of unknowns with the factory system and the under dash air plumbing is all removed by I think I have most of it. I have the front end all off doing a restore and its not a good time to get the system checked to see what's bad. I plan on removing the factory system intact to clean up the front end and am also going to replace the from brakes with a disk brake system. I think I will be further ahead replacing with a vintage air system. The car is a convertible and I am not concerned with a recirculated system. Thanks all for your feedback. Question, what might be the value of all the factory equipment if I try to sell it?

banny

Factory ac parts are one of things where the prices are all over the board. There really is no defined general amount that is asked like other factory parts. Ive had people give them to me and I seen people asking $200 and up just for the ac box.

70rocketpilot

I'll throw my .02 in here, and post a couple pictures. I just finished installing a VA system on my '70 Cutlass convertible that was an original AC car. Overall the job was quite a bit harder and more of a PITA than I thought it would be. But that said, now that it is installed and working, it's easy to forget some of the hardship associated with installing the evaporator, AC & heater hoses and ducting. (that was the real headache of the job.)
Evacuated and charged the compressor at my friends dealership last Saturday. Wow, does this sucker crank out cold air! 38 degrees as seen by the thermometer in the photo. I had to turn it down driving home!

SRT

IM gonna barge in here.lol I have a 71 factory air cutlass it has the air box and condenser only. I'm looking to convert it to 134. I need lines, compresor ,dryer and not sure what else. does anyone seel a kit or something that comes with what I would need. I want to use the factory air that is on the car. I'm open to suggestions.

banny

For 134a, you want to replace the factory condenser with a parallel flow condenser. Classic auto air is the only one that sell bolt in pf condensers at this time. You also want to recalibrate your poa valve. If you can't/don't want to do it yourself, I can do it. I rebuild/recalibrate them all the time. There are several sources for hoses. Old air products, CAA, and others. You can also upgrade to an aluminium version of the original steel A6 compressor that accepts your factory hoses and brackets. They can be had for around $300. Driers can be picked up inexpensively also. I go through and reuse original expansion valves because they look better but aftermarket replacements are pretty cheap. Flush/pressure check the evaporator and you should be good to go. For 134a add around 80% of r12 charge. Use hnbr orings and pag oil

Aron Nance

I converted theA6 to a Sanden, and associated other changes, including R134. Cold temperature at the vent, BUT the blower just doesn't put out enough airflow to cool the front of the Silver Bullet. A '92 C***y van evaporator/blower unit is located in the rear spare tire wheel well, and pushes a lot of air..............in the BACK. Suggestions? Do fan speeds get slower with age? C**p in the fan blades? Did not mean to hijack, felt it was relevant to the conversation.
Aron

MDchanic

Every GM A, C, and C body, '68-'73, that I've had has been able to blow a hurricane.

You need to take it apart and see what's wrong.

Most likely possibility: Evaporator plugged with debris.

- Eric

Macadoo

Retro-air seems a bit cheaper. Does oldair include shipping?
http://www.retroair.com/gmjaguara6replacement.html

I made the swap to 134a a couple years ago and I'll admit, I kept the old condenser (with new dryer). It blows cold enough for me. And the wife, whom is always overheated, constantly turns it down.

I'm thinking of going with the replacement compressor too. My original works but no matter how tight I get the belt, the feed side of the belt flaps like a flag on a windy day. It also drags the engine more than it should and I have overheating issues when I run it.

Ozzie

I agree; if it's had outside exposure for 20+ years, especially near trees, it could be a question of crud. If not that then possibly a misbehaving air door or a sluggish blower motor. Check it out.

MDchanic

They all do that.

- Eric

Macadoo

Well THAT'S not what I wanted to hear, lol. Would the replacement not have less drag? That is one of the claims.

And FWIW, my fan blows like the wind that took off half my roof a couple months ago. I vote for plugged evap.

MDchanic

All of the A6s do that.

The Sandens do draw less power and don't do that (at least not as much - it's a pretty long free-run for a V-belt).

I think the Caddys (and maybe Buicks?) with the twin A/C belts don't flap as much.

- Eric

oddball

Banny, do you stick with the 80% rule when switching condensers? Seems like the PF condensers have quite a bit less volume than the tube/fin.

Ozzie

As has been said most of the belts perform that way. Some other manufacturers (not GM) have added idlers to minimize this. The old A5 compressors usually had dual belts; some A6 had them also. This helped some. But keep in mind that Frigidaire rated the A6 as having three tons of refrigeration capacity at 3000 RPM. That's going to be a significant load on the engine. The A5 systems had a bypass valve between the high and low sides of the system. This controlled the high side pressure to not go any higher than what the expansion valve could use. This also helped the compressor load on the engine. But when the design fault of the A6 rears its ugly head and the piston web drags too hard against the swash plate you get the added drag which significantly increases the load. When it drags too hard either the belt breaks or the clutch disintegrates. Something has to give.

banny

I haven't had an issue staying around 80%.