SnakeBit

another question now arises...was going to convert this car to power brakes which it does not have. after writing the last post, went to Advance Auto Parts and saw like 6 different part numbers all say reman brake booster, some say vacuum reman brake booster. I thought they were all vaccum assisted. so which one would I use and where is the source of the vacuum I would use. thanx for any guidance. I figured just get the booster and new master cylinder and hook it up.

Allan R

You could change by adding a brake booster and master cylinder but you might have to rework the brake lines from the MC to the distribution block. The vacuum for the booster you need to install a tee on one of the bosses on the intake manifold (usually behind the carb). They all are vacuum based so you're right on that one. Probably just the vendors way of describing it on their parts inventory. If not sure, make sure you know their return policy if it doesn't fit.

Just a question - since you're looking to upgrade the brakes to power, why not go with a power disc brake conversion kit? Chances are you're going to need to redo the bushings, ball joints and brake hoses, shoes, machine drums, rebuild or replace wheel cylinders, brake hold down kits etc on that car, so that would be the perfect time to upgrade?

Vendors include: In Line Tube, The Right Stuff, Eastwoods, Summitt etc. IMO, Disc is much better than drums and much easier to get parts nowadays. But then you'd probably also need to upgrade the wheels so the calipers don't grind or scrape on the wheel. Great time to add SSIII wheels to the ride!

I should probably not be saying all this since you prolly don't really want to spend a lot on the car right now? Just thinking of your son's safety when he's driving it.

SnakeBit

you are 100% spot on. one of the factors I am counting on is making the car safer for my son and I was, in the future, planning on checking into the disc conversion but money is an issue for the present. I figure to at least get the car safe to drive, and as long as I am pulling stuff that is old off, might as well spend some on the power brakes and then later as money allows, do the disc upgrade. thanx for the links to where to shop for them.

i just don't get what happened, the pedal was as hard as can be until we got in it yesterday and it was gone. why I wanted the power cause you had to really press the non power brakes but the pedal was fine. something leaked out big time quick.

oldcutlass

Glad you guys are taking it slow and making progress.

Allan R

Can you explain that a bit more? I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
1. The pedal used to be really hard and is again now?
2. The pedal is fine now?
3. There's a leak in the system now or it's not fully bled? (soft pedal with lots of travel?)

SnakeBit

pedal was up and "hard" when we got the car and until we got back in it yesterday. rear section of the master cylinder was empty, filled it. when we got in the car yesterday and started it after the plugplug wire change, pedal went straight down as far as it can go with no resistance, same after the fluid refill. air in the line I am sure, but wondering where the fluid went and does not pump up at all. started to once, but not much. so far, haven't seen anything obvious without getting under the car.

Allan R

Check the MC reservoir again and see if its gone down (prolly is empty again). If you had air in the lines don't forget it's likely all 4 wheel cylinders that need bleeding. You will def need to get under to check the condition of the hoses unless you jack up the car. That would also be a good time to pull the drums and see if the wheel cylinders are leaking or need to be replaced/rebuilt. Chances are good that pressing the pedal down just displaced some of the air with brake fluid. Don't forget to check the distribution block for leaks too.

SnakeBit

thanx!!!

SnakeBit

mechanic I know suggested using chevelle front disc brakes from a similar year as a cheaper alternative to one of the kits. will have to see what I need from what year. might be able to keep the 14" or no more than 15" rims as well using those.

Allan R

Actually if you want to convert to front discs, you can also use donor parts from Buick and Pontiac. All the GM A body cars were generically the same with brakes back then. Buying from the wrecker and refurbing the parts is a great way for your son to learn the value of $$$ and also the work involved with maintenance and upgrade planning. I think you can use the disc brake setup from any of the 68-72 on your 67. In 73 the spindles and suspension changed.

SnakeBit

Thanx!!!! I agree on learning the value of money and doing things on a budget....what I do all the time with the Cobra.

Just gotta find out all that I will need and if they will fit 14" rims. I am guessing spindle, calipers, rotors and brackets. then possibly lines and maybe a different master cylinder. then I also guess the bolt pattern is the same.

Tedd Thompson

I don't think 14 inch rims are going to be a option if you go to disks, there just isn't enough room for the roters. So if you are looking now for rims and tires you might as well forget about 14 inch wheels, there is a better selection on 15 inch tires anyway.....Tedd

SnakeBit

that is what I was thinking but was not sure. thanx!!

Allan R

Disc brakes definitely fit SSII or SSIII 14X7" wheels. If you find 14x6" rallye wheels there's a really good chance they will fit also. I'd be more comfortable recommending 14X7". Up here they cost around $20/wheel; that's really affordable to dress up a car with a sporty looking wheel. Sand or media blast the wheel and repaint for body color or accent color!
This is the kind of wheel I'm suggesting in your choice of color:

SnakeBit

very cool!!!!! I like those, but will of course have to check with my son and see what he likes....I know he like chrome and that might be an option if these came in chrome or have them chromed. Thanx for the suggestions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Allan R

Actually in the 80's they did come in a chrome finish. They were standard equipment with the 83/84 Hurst Olds cars, and could be dealer ordered for your daily driver.


Don't even need trim bezels or rings!

SnakeBit

Thanx!!!!!!!!!!!

SnakeBit

without getting under the car to track the lines, can I assume that the rear portion of the reservoir on the master cylinder is for the rear brakes? thanx.

oldcutlass

That is a good assumption. Since you have already lost a fair amount fluid I would suggest looking for the wet spot.

Most of the 14" Olds SSII and up are ok with disc setups, the problem is limited tire availability. I suggest you look for 15's.

SnakeBit

Thanx!!! by the way your Olds looks great and love that Mopar you had!!!!!!

willys33

Having a father/son project like this is just awesome. Whether you get anything done or not, it will be a bonding experience for you both. I hope your boy gets a lot out of this. It's good to get kids away from the computers (unless they're researching parts). Have fun with it and please keep us posted as you go along. Mike

SnakeBit

Thanx Mike for the kind words!!!! will keep it up to date.

SnakeBit

just went to Rock Auto just to get an idea of brake parts prices. already see that I have to check the car more as there are 2" drums and 2.5" drums and the wheel cylinders, some listings don't reflect the side and some do. did Olds do that much in the way of putting different parts on different cars. pain.

Allan R

I thought you were changing to disc brakes...

SnakeBit

I am , that was just for the back. found a whole kit for the front...spidles, dust shields, rotors, calipers, m/c and booster, brackets, lines, bolts, bearings, the whole shabang. will need different wheels, so was going to do the back first to at least get them ready.

SnakeBit

also, curious....what are most doing about dualing out the car...local muffler shops or is there a decent, reasonable maker. would like to go with 2.5" exhaust. thanx for any input.

Allan R

Ah, got it. Your brake shoes for the rear drums are 2.5" Actually they're the same for both front and rear drums on 67 Cutlass.

Exhausts? I went with a custom bent exhaust from a local muffler shop. When it comes time to replace, I'll likely check Gardner Exhausts first. I have to be pretty careful about big ticket items like this because shipping and customs are killer. Pricepoint of buying from them might make the local market more lucrative.

I guess it comes down to what kind of sound and performance you're expecting. And with a 4 door sedan?? I think putting duals and stock 2" pipes / mufflers is going to help just as much as a 2.5 pipe and cost less. Are you changing over to headers or just using a blockoff plate on the PS E manifold?

SnakeBit

as always, first, thanx a lot for the insights, info and suggestions. I really do appreciate it. I tend to think about things way before I do them, just to have my ideas and thoughts organized. also helps since the rear brakes will most likely be the next major project.

as to the PS E manifold, pardon my ignorance, but I don't know what that is (unless you mean the passenger side exhaust manifold, and if so, what plate is there?).

headers....maybe in the future depending on recommendations on fit. I have installed my share and not a fun job to me.

I was figuring I might just let a local shop form up the exhaust and pick whatever mufflers I decide on (my son would have no idea as to which. I am a fan of MAC myself which is on my Cobra). still leaning toward the 2.5" based on the displacement of the motor. will also make mating up tips nicer in the looks department. I have not been a fan of 2" tips or having large tips mated to small tubing.

Allan R

Yes, passenger side exhaust manifold. The 330 has a single exhaust. The drivers side runs a crossover pipe to the passenger side and hooks up to a common exhaust. Oldsmobile never developed a true dual exhaust for SBO so what they did with the N10 (dual exhaust) was ran straight back from the drivers side manifold. On the Passenger side, they blocked off the inlet from the crossover and let that side flow straight back to the muffler as well. Basically you can put in a dual exhaust system without having to remove the exhaust manifolds; which IMO is a good thing. I also don't like installing headers.

The block off plate is readily available from many vendors and looks like this. This one is from Parts Place and costs 39.00 Part number EX2604T


It gets bolted here:

oldcutlass

I went with a local exhaust guy who is a true artist on alot of my cars. The block off plate as Allan pointed out is needed and the exhaust guy can fabricate one on site, so no need to purchase if thats the route you take. I like a 2 1/2" exhaust system also, be advised don't even think about headers for your 330, don't ask me why I know. I'm partial to tailpipes turned down right before the rear bumper, just can't stand 1' of exhaust tip sticking out passed the bumper.

Mufflers are an aquired taste, listen to what others are running and duplicate what you like.

doc

I went w/ 2.25 duals on my '66 F-85 sedan, sound great IMHO...following this project!!

SnakeBit

got it and thanx!!! I like the idea of getting the block off plate, if for no other reason, to save time once I go to get her done. will pick one of those up and just hang on to it for when it is time. interesting how they did that and I really appreciate the detail!!! makes a lot of sense.. guess my biggest deal will be getting the old stuff loose...lots of PB blaster and if that doesn't help when it is time...heat.

SnakeBit

Thanx for the input!!!! sounds like the voice of experience on the headers. sounds like a good excuse to leave them be. I could have nightmares about breaking off bolts trying to remove the old logs.

I know what you mean about the turn downs, I like those and also ones exiting just behind the rear tires on both side, kinda newer (90's) Impala SS style.

but, my son like those tips hangin out the back, so will try to do something tasteful at least. he is used to seeing my Mustang and so I am guessing that is where it is coming from. rolled black chrome maybe....

SnakeBit

thanx for joining in!!!!!

SnakeBit

wow, this gets more confusing.....went to order the rear brake parts...seems there are more than one wheel cylinder, one is 7/16 inlet then there is a listing for a 7/8 bore size; don't know what the difference is since one talks about inlet, the other bore size.

Thanx to Allan R I know I need 2.5" drums and shoes since there was a 2" option, but now I don't know about the wheel cylinders....was hoping to have the parts prior to tearing it all down.

anything else about these cars that jumps out as to you may have this part or you may have this other part?

anybody used RockAuto for parts? What was your experience. they seem to have name brands at much cheaper prices.

oldcutlass

I bought all my front end parts from Rockauto. The prices and service was good, all around a good experience. You have to consider the cost of shipping and if you per chance get the wrong part, then you will have to wait to finish while you exchange by mail.

Allan R

Ah, the WC bores. Your car has drums all the way around if I remember. The bore you need is 7/8.
The GM Parts manual lists:
Group 4.665 Cylinder Assy., Rear Wheel Brake
Description: 67 F85 Drum brakes except Vista Cruiser.
Part number 5469245. qty- 2.
That covers your car 100%.

Using RockAuto has some advantages, but in other situations it's a crapshoot. ALWAYS check to make sure the parts are coming from the same warehouse, or they'll double charge you for shipping from different locations.

The Dorman and Wagner products are terrific value for the money. WC45873 and W45873.

Do NOT buy anything listed for a wagon. They are different.

SnakeBit

Thanx for the info!!

SnakeBit

you are correct, drums all around, non power assisted.

Thanx for the part numbers and recommendation on the Dorman and Wagner. those are two names I use frequently as well. also, thanx for the info on the bore size. I hate it when you have all kinds of options!!!

SnakeBit

finally got my Snake back and all seems ok at this point, so will start to focus on the Cutlass again...soon as a little more money trickles in...the Cobra set me back a bunch.