mikeamondo

So I had a guy store my 98 over the winter and since he owed me a little money, and my car needed valve seals and few other things, I asked him if he'd like to have his mechanic do the work on trade. Big mistake. 5 months later the car is finally back together, but now he says he's having trouble getting the valves adjusted.

The latest is that he has a guy coming in who know these older cars. He says the valve keep "backing off" and while the car does run, it rattles like crazy. He says they may have to put some sort of locking ring or thing on them.

Does this make any sense? I've never worked on the valves or taken apart a set of heads, so it's all gibberish to me. Any thoughts on what may be going on here? I'm just trying to educate myself so I can have a reasonable conversation with them.

Thanks!
Mike

Oldsmaniac

If the engine is stock with stock valve train there is no adjustment. If the rockers are noisy they are worn or you have other worn parts such as lifters or pushrods or rocker bridges providing you have decent oil pressure..

CRUZN 66

There is no valve adjustment for the 425... Just tighten and torque to spec... If there is play or loose rockers, the pivots and/or rocker arms are worn... Other possibility is bad (collapsed) lifters...

svnt442

With the lifter on the base circle of the cam torque the rocker arm bolt to 25 ft lbs and be done with it.

mikeamondo

Wow.. thanks for the super quick answers!

Ok... so there was no rattle before they took it apart. Changed out the valve seals and put it all back together with new head gaskets, of course.

If the other parts mentioned are now bad enough to be making noise, shouldn't they have been making noise before?
What do you think is happening that's making the guy working on it to say it's "backing off"?

Is it possible they have the timing off? Or would that result in back firing and misfires..... Anything else that could be happening that has them confused?

Oldsmaniac

Well the stock head gaskets were very thin steel shim type and they probably replaced them with a thicker gasket which could cause your problem. You might need longer pushrods...

olds 307 and 403

The new head gaskets are .020"+ thicker and your parts may be getting worn and the combo is causing your issue.

redoldsman

If he was just replacing valve seals, why did he change the head gaskets. You don't have to pull the heads to replace the seals. It sounds like you need to take your car to somebody that knows what they are doing.

Fun71

I didn't have to change push rod length the first time my engine was apart and aftermarket head gaskets were installed. I wonder if these "mechanics" know the proper procedure for installing a non-adjustable valve train. Perhaps they did not turn the engine so both valves were closed before tightening the rocker bridge bolts?

Another thought is perhaps the original non-adjustable rockers have been replaced with something else?

Sugar Bear

Do you know if they removed the cylinder heads to replace the valve seals or used compressed air to hold the valves in place while changing the seals?

Please do not be insulted; however, I am wondering if the new "head gaskets" could be confused with new "valve cover" gaskets. If the head gaskets were not removed/replaced that should rule out needing longer pushrods.

Keep us posted.

svnt442

Just in case he has any doubts about it...(if you were to go back to him...lol.)

rocker%20arm%20torque_zpsncas4sm7.jpg

mikeamondo

Yeah.... hindsight's 20/20.... Owner of the shop / dealership is a good guy, but non-mechanic and swore this young guy was a wiz kid in the shop. Kid talked up a good game.... but quickly I realized he was in over his head. He said it would be easier to take the heads off to do the job. I should have been checking on him the whole time....

He definitely pulled the heads - and they put new valve cover gaskets in as well. No insult taken.... I'm obviously short of knowledge here.

Couple more, then....
How do you know the lifter is at the base circle of the cam?
Where can I buy pushrods that .020 inches longer?
Thanks!
Mike

m371961

I would not start with buying push rods. I would start with following the Chassis Manual on installing rocker arms and checking for proper procedure and torque.

olds 307 and 403

Any ticking issues I had after swapping head gaskets was fixed with changing rocker arms. They wear like anything else and are cheap to replace. Get new rocker arms and bridges, torque to 25 ft/lbs, all should be well.

Olds64

x2

Fun71

I would also suggest checking your existing push rods for straightness. It may be possible some were bent during this whole process. A bent push rod will be a bit shorter from end to end.

m371961

X2 Always check when pulled, and it is possible they may have been bent by your mechanic.

mikeamondo

So.... I finally got my car back. The owner of the shop had a local classic car guy come in and get it right.


The good news is she runs like a dream.
The bad news is she's dumping oil down over the exhaust manifolds. Pretty sure it's coming from the valve pan gaskets... but it's a little hard to tell. I don't see anything leaking at idle, so it may be only at speed... but I end up leaving a Spyhunter quality smoke screen behind me. (That's an old video game, by the way.... )


My question is ... are the valve pan gaskets the most likely culprit, or is possible he screwed up the head reinstall on both sides in some way to allow oil leaks at the seam or from the bolts? (this didn't seem likely, to me but I thought I'd ask)
Thanks!
Mike

Oldsmaniac

So what was the fix? Yes it is very likely the valve cover gaskets were reused or slipped while installing and are not sealing.

mikeamondo

I still have no idea... but as soon as the older guy looked at it, he recognized that the valves were not adjustable and he apparently knew what to do. I asked him if he had any idea what the kid had been trying to adjust and he had no clue..... I have a feeling he was just failing to torque them down enough and they kept loosening back up... that's the only thing I can think of that you might describe as 'backing back off' when it ran. Insert eyeroll here.

mikeamondo

So.... I picked up my car and got a few miles down the road before smoke was rolling out from under the car. Oil was streaming down from the valve covers. Dug into it today... was missing one of the bolts, and the rubber gaskets came out in two pieces... all beggared up. But..... the real problem was that the valve covers themselves are damaged.... with small holes ripped in the metal around the bolt holes. I think the idiot over torqued 'em, 'cause it wasn't leaking a bit when I took it there.

Anyway.... anyone know where I can buy a new set of valve covers for the old girl? 67 Olds 98 with the 425 rocket.

Thanks!
M

oldcutlass

Place a parts wanted ad, I'm sure someone has a set. In the meantime you can hammer them flat and purchase a bunch of these. Glue the gaskets to the valve covers with weather strip cement.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-3681/overview/

svnt442

I have a couple of sets of standard valve covers in the garage I would part with for shipping if you can't find anything locally to you.
It would be cheaper to find something on that side of the country for sure.

mikeamondo

sevnt442 --- Thanks! Any idea what the shipping would be those? I haven't called the local yards yet.... but around here I've seen very little old iron...

svnt442

No clue off hand.

svnt442

I took some pictures of them. Can I text them to you?

mikeamondo

PM'd the number to you.... I'll check on shipping
Thanks!

svnt442

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfi...98266207011715