acheslow

Hi all -- I'm new to the site, joining from the Seattle area. For the last year or so I've been doing research and looking around to buy my first classic car. I'm not looking for a show car necessarily; just a good driver that I can enjoy.

One of the reasons I've narrowed my search down to a '68-72 Cutlass Convertible is that it's one of the few convertibles that I like which was built with three seat belts in the rear seat. I have three kids who dream about riding in a convertible and they're not getting any younger. And, neither am I, so I decided to get something that really speaks to me (rather than the very practical Prius that I'm driving now) and that our whole family can enjoy together.

I've finally found a car on Craigslist that seems to meet all of my requirements. If it inspects well then I think I'm ready to pull the trigger. My problem, though, is that I'm not sure where to take the car for a good inspection. I'm not very mechanical, and while I'm very interested in learning, I want to make sure the car is a good reliable driver.

So my question is - can anyone recommend a person or place near Everett, WA that you would trust to do a thorough inspection of a car like this?

Thanks!
Alan

Allan R

Welcome to CO.

Hope your purchase goes smoothly. Don't expect perfection on a 39-42 year old car. I'd be more concerned about the metal fatigue or rust on frame and body parts. If those are solid, there are replacement mechanical/electrical parts that can be used if needed on the engine/tranny, brakes, suspension etc. I would rather buy a car with a solid body and have to do some mechanical fixing than buy a rust bucket (again) and deal with that.

Which car are you looking at specifically, (i.e. 71 Cutlass Supreme vert?) and how much are they asking.

Sorry I don't know anyone in your neck of the woods, just thought I'd say hi and add some advice/opinion. Hope you get the car and your kids enjoy the ride.

acheslow

Thanks, Allan.


I'm looking at a 72 Cutlass Supreme with an asking price of $22k. Yeah I know that's high, but it includes a $6k set of 22" wheels that the seller can take out of the deal. From the little that I can tell via email and photos, I'm expecting (hoping) an inspection to put this somewhere in-between the average and high price brands. With a little negotiating I think I'll be OK. But as you mentioned, it's things like hidden rust that I'm concerned about and not sure how to identify that ahead of time.

Here are some pics. What do you think?

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx...13ED9CDE!14775

Thanks,
Alan

oldcutlass

What does the underside look like? I think $22 is high!!!! You can do far better with that kind of money on an Oldsmobile if your patient.

Or you can tell him to keep the $6000 wheels and tires and offer him $12000! You have to look past the shiney paint.

It's a driver with an SBC in it!

CQR

I agree with Oldcutlass. Here is one here in Denver for under $10K.

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/2516425759.html

rocketraider

I would run, not walk, away from that car.

First reason is obviously sloppy interior work- the door panels especially are not up to standard esp for a $22k asking price. The power window switches have been relocated to accommodate that ghetto blaster stereo system and the whole gut just smacks of a half-assed job.

Second reason is the donk wheels. You don't know what kind of mods or alterations were done to get those wheels under the car and stuff like that stresses frame, brake and suspension components beyond belief. Add in convertible with its inherent frame and body stress and you're asking for a mess.

Third reason is the small-block Chevy engine. Something as simple as a tune-up could easily become a headache, because you cannot ask for plugs for an Olds 350 and expect them to fit the Chevrolet engine.

You say you're not mechanical, so all these modifications leave you at the mercy of someone who hopefully realises what they're dealing with when it comes to servicing or repairing this car, and who hopefully has enough personal integrity to not rape you. I can about guarantee you the seller either won't have a clue what was done to the car or won't be straight up with you about it.

You can get a whole lot nicer car for a lot less money if you just search a little. There's guys on here from your area, as well as a strong Olds club in Washington state who can help you find a good car.

Keep in mind that the other GM A-body convertibles (for that matter all convertibles built after about 1967) will have the three-place rear seat belts you need.

MDchanic

+1.

Start peeling that onion and you'll be left with nothing at all.

- Eric

GreekDog

I got my 72 convertible for 11k and it was in good driving condition with a 455. i say pass on this one.

its important to be patient when shopping for a classic. I was shopping for nearly one full year every day before I finally bought my cutlass.

Allan R

Alan,
I agree with MDchanic and rocketraider. My first impression when I looked at the pics was to look away. In fairness I looked at all the pics. First I have to say that you couldn't pay me to buy a Donk. Just too many things that have probably been done for the sake of one persons whimsical tastes. just taking the wheels off is not likely the answer, as others have suggested. There are signs of cheaping out too, as rocketraider suggested.
- Take a look at the brake pedal, it's missing the rubber pad that goes over top.
- The woodgrain applique that's supposed to go across the lower dash? Is only on the glovebox door.
- The door panels look like a 6 year old did them.
- Headlight bezels have been blacked out to match the 'triple black' theme,
- the DS rear fender trim (close to the A pillar) that links the hood trim is missing. Probably on the other side too?
- The rear deck reveal chrome is all missing, as are the O L D S M O B I L E lettering.
- The interior has nice upholstery, but the wrong pattern for a Supreme, and is missing the woodgrain accents
- Tach is not factory, but mounted where one would be
- Aftermarket gages mounted in cigar tray, well that's how some people do it.
- what tranny in there?
- Unless those DONK wheels have some serious offsets, you probably are looking at modified spindles that will make the stock wheels fit wrong.

I understand that it's part of losing the brand on the outside, but at 22K? You need to be seeing something finished a lot better than this IMO

Most sellers post HUGE $$$ values because they want to get the HUGE $$$ they sank into it back. Doesn't work that way. The market determines the value. The paint looks impressive ( a color not offered by Oldsmobile for the 72 Cutlass model year BTW) but you can make my grandmother look good with mascara too.

With due respects, 22 large for that? I would keep on looking. CQR gave you an idea of what the real market is like out there with his link. That's a car I would seriously consider buying even if I had to spend another 5 large in repairs. You were apparently willing to negotiate for a 6 large reduction in $ without the wheels? That opens up your market to spend a lot. There are lots of cars in the 16 large range that would probably be a better choice. Have you done web searches? http://www.442.com/class/carsforsale.html is fairly active, you can also check out ebay, or post on sites like this for WTB (want to buy) Cutlass Supreme convert 1968-1972. There are dealers who take these cars in trade too and try to get B.Jackson prices for something that isn't.

Sorry if this comes across badly. My only interest is to give you the best suggestions and advice (just like the others have done) in regards to getting a nice Supreme you can rely on, have your kids enjoy and have a blast driving.

69Rman

Sorry to the original poster to add to this "bashing" of a sort, but I have to FULLY AGREE with rocketraider here.
The first pic I saw I said "22G's, HELL NO!!!"

Run man!!!

The guys here will help you find an AWESOME Olds for half the price that guy is asking.
Check the Oldsmap (http://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=149866) for someone close. I am sure someone will go look at one with/for you.
Duane

zodiacblueS

Good call on the map 69R. There are 6 members within 50 miles of your town Alan. Take a deep breath, then shoot out some emails to these members.

chrisneu68olds

Alan, RUN! You are better off getting something rough and working it up the RIGHT way as opposed to getting these ghetto-fabulous-donk/dunk/dump/whatevertheyare (Don't even know what the he** DONK means, but to me it is likely the noise the suspension makes when hitting a bump, or engine makes when you floor it.) Either way, you would be paying for someone else's nightmare.

One small piece of advice, when looking at any used car, look under the dash and check out the wiring. If you see a lot of electrical tape, fuse boxes with foil, curious wiring bundles that go nowhere, or "extra" bare wire that probably went to a stereo of dubious origin, run for the hills and don't look back. The hanging bundle in the picture, under the dash, would be enough to give me great pause in looking further. Bad wiring can range from annoyance to severe inconvenience to a burnt out shell.

Another good one is bring a refrigerator magnet when looking at a prospect. If you can stick it to the paint, you have metal. No stick=No Metal=Bondo. As great as these cars are, they are all prone to rust.

Finally, if the person selling it to you is evasive when you ask questions (and I would ask a LOT) that can also be a red flag.

Just my $0.02 worth...in this case, you get what you pay for. :-)

joe_padavano

Welcome to the Olds world, but be aware that by Federal law, ALL cars built after 1966 (possibly 1965) were REQUIRED to have as many sets of seat belts as there were advertised seating positions. This means that for just about every car built in America, there were three sets of seat belts in the back seat. Now, you may not see them all because they were often pushed under the seat, but the feds required them to be there when the cars were built and the hard points for attaching them are built into the car.

Oldsguy

Alan,
As un-friendly as this thread may seem to you it is not. Our members are good folks and really like owning/collecting Oldsmobiles but they are also car guys in general and many are very skilled mechanics. You are getting some very good advice. I am sure we can help you find a very worthy car for your needs. Finally, Welcome to CO.

rustyroger

I agree with the other posts in this thread, it ticks all the main RUN AWAY boxes for me too.
Don't forget this an Oldscentric forum, but there are other fine cars that might suit you just as well from other makers. You may have a desire to be an Oldsmobile owner and we applaud your discerning taste if this is the case.
If you are looking for a convertible but don't have a bias for any particular make it will help you in your search, just as with the car concerned in this thread be prepared to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your princess.

Good luck and if you decide on a lesser vehicle than an Oldsmobile because you have found a good one for a fair price we won't hold it against you.
I drive an Oldsmobile (my 4th out of 10 American cars) because it was the right car at the right price when I was looking.

Roger.

rocketraider

Yeah, I guess we are coming across as negative, but a heavily modified car is not the way to start out your old car ownership experience. It can leave a bad taste in your mouth for years to come and turn you off the whole thing.

I'd rather a novice old car owner get an unmodified vehicle to start, since it makes life much easier finding replacement parts and getting someone to service it. Even great mechanics often have trouble with stuff that isn't "factory", especially when there's no documentation what has been done.

The spark plugs example is common. You go for plugs, tell the counter guy 71 Olds Cutlass, he says what engine, you say 350. Those cars came with Oldsmobile 350 or 455 cubic inch engines. This car has been changed to a Chevrolet 350 which uses completely different plugs. He gives you plugs for Olds 350, you go home and try to install them, they don't fit, probably won't even thread in because the thread sizes are different. Then you call the parts guy a dumbass and get angry, and when you take them back he tells you those plugs are what an Olds 350 calls for. Then you tell him the engine has been changed to Chevy and he says what year Chevy and you don't know. And everybody ends up pissed off.

I'm working with a 17-year-old right now who bought an S10 pickup converted to V8 as his first vehicle. He also has very little automotive experience and is finding out the hard way about a cobbled-together vehicle. The starter went out and he is having a devil of a time getting one to work. He never thought about having the one on the truck rebuilt, and traded it in as a core so it's long gone.

He went back to the guy he bought it from to find out what was done and what starter was put on and got blown off, because that kid didn't know either. He'd paid someone to do the conversion, and that guy is nowhere to be found. So Brian is stuck trying starter after starter to get one that will bolt up and work properly. Doesn't help that this Frankenstein has an aftermarket flexplate that is spaced different than an original, and naturally no documentation as to what brand it is or where it was purchased.

Keep looking. There are way nicer cars out there for the same or less money. You want custom wheels, you can buy them and KNOW what was done to make them work.

MDchanic

⬆⬆⬆ ☝ Well said ☝.⬆⬆⬆

- Eric

acheslow

Guys, thanks, this is really great feedback. Exactly what I was looking for! I have to admit I was taken in by the shiny black paint. I realize I'll need to do some more research and be more patient to find the right one.

Tucsonbob

There is a green one in the Tucson c/l and also listed in this forum. $8500 I think.

acheslow

I have my heart set on a black exterior. I wonder if I'd be better off looking for one that needs a paint job and having it repainted in black?

CQR

I'd be happy to do a prelim inspection on the one in Denver I posted before. Good luck in your search.

Edit: Post the same time you did. But the offer is open if you find one near me.

DEEPCUTT

Welcome to CO acheslow! You'll find the right one, I just so happened to be driving my ambulance(I'm an EMT) one day and saw mine way up on a hill at a classic car lot that I had been checking for three years with no rush. I went and test drove it and the rest is history. All orig.( except wheels and rebuilt tranny)$8k. Happy hunting man!

acheslow

Thanks! I'll definitely keep you in mind and appreciate the offer.

ddd777

Can someone fill me in on the "Oldsmap"?
Saw it mentioned here, but nowhere else in the forums.
Looks like it could be a valuable resource for someone like me.

I am just embarking on a search for '72 Cutlass and am stymied by the notion of getting it looked at, or a mechanical inspection in a far away place. And, like the initial poster, acheslow, I am not mechanically qualified to do a thorough inspection myself.

Any sort of checklist that folks go through when looking, or is there so much variation in terms of how much work you are willing to do (or have done) that that is a silly notion?

Any words of wisdom are greatly appreciated.

Allan R

The Classic Oldsmobile Map is in the 'Newbie' section of this site: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...obile-map.html All you have to do is open the map and use the drop down menu to add yourself. You can also use the map to scroll to other parts of the US or the world and see where other members (who have bothered to register themselves) are.

Hope your search for a 72 goes the way you want. If you're looking for an original (excellent condition turnkey car) ?

I don't know where you are located, but if it's anywhere close to TX, gearheads78 (Richard) has a 72 Cutlass S that he is selling to help pay for med expenses. It's a gorgeous original car that he's done some work to and looks to only need a bill of sale to be a turnkey car. I believe Richard is a mechanic by trade and would not falsely represent this car. Have a look: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post468459

Heck, even if you're not near TX, that would be one sweet plane ride and drive home!

ddd777

Thank you.
That is helpful about the map.

That is a very nice looking car he is selling, but i am interested a convertible.

Funny you should mention TX, as this one came up recently:
http://classiccarliquidators.com/cla.../3J67K2M147984
and is an example of a car that looks interesting, but is quite far away from me (i am in the northeast).

Allan R

Ok, didn't know that to start with. Too bad, that car of Richard's is a beauty. I know you wouldn't go wrong with it. Anyway - check the local and area CL and do some on line searches. May I suggest that if you're looking at 72 CS verts, you also include 70 and 71 CS verts? They are virtually the same car with minor cosmetic differences.

Start a thread on this site in the 'Cars Wanted' section and post exactly what you're looking for. https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...splay.php?f=15 Someone on the site may have what you want, or be able to network you to a car for sale. There is always risk involved when buying a car - especially at a distance.

Every so often one of the sponsors of this site posts Oldsmobiles for sale. Keep an eye peeled on this too https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...archid=1281173

ddd777

Thank you Allen,
I will go post over in the "wanted section".
Yes they are nearly the same - it is indeed the few cosmetic differences that appeal to me ;-)
The '71 is a possibility, though.
Please correct me if my information is wrong, but didn't the valves get changed in 1971 to prepare for unleaded gasoline, thus making the '70 a slightly different beast?

MDchanic

Off the top of my head: Valve seats (heads), pistons, carburetors, and distributors are all different between '70 and '71 due to emissions standards, with '70 having a higher compression ratio, better performance, and probably better fuel economy, if driven conservatively.

Cars are a funny thing - wait as long as you need to to get the one you want, or you won't be happy with it.

- Eric

joe_padavano

Just to clarify, starting with the 1971 model year, all Olds motors were designed to run on low-lead (and subsequently no-lead) gasoline, per federal mandate. What this meant to the engine was hardened valve seats in the heads, lowered compression, and altered timing curves. Other changes like cam specs, carb calibration, etc, were also implemented.

Note that the factory hardened seats are simply an induction hardened zone around each valve seat. They are not pressed-in hardened seats.

Allan R

Yes, that's sort of correct, it's the valve seats that were changed but not all 71s were affected. If you look at the head castings the #(on 350) and letter (on 455) will identify the head; which will further help determine the valves and valve seat hardness.

gearheads78

Welcome to the site. Run away from classiccarliquidators. If you know what to look for and car see one in person you can pick up a decent project from there from time to time but don't even think about a car from there site unseen. I have no personal experience but I have heard way to many horror stories about that place.

joe_padavano

Not sure what part of it is "sort of correct", but ALL 1971 Oldsmobile engines got the hardened seats. SBOs used #7 heads exclusively in 71, BBOs used G or H heads. All three castings had the hardened seats.

Allan R

Joe, the reason I said 'sort of correct' is he asked about valves got changed instead of referring to valve seats. Ok?

cld

Like the other guys said, look for weird wiring, poorly done interiors, and covered up rust and bondo. Always check the fluids, and always ask for receipts and documentation if the owner says the trans and/or engine were rebuilt. You also have to consider the rocket scientist who might have been racing and doing neutral drops in grandad's car with his friends, or the guy who hired his less-than-competent nephew to do the mechanical work on the car. Don't be deterred from getting a classic car, just be ready to do a bit of work because no car is going to be perfect after 35+ years.

MDchanic

I avoided that point so as not to sound critical, which is a bad (but enjoyable) habit I've got.

Interestingly, in addition to the valves being the same, most cams are the same (high-performance cams were different, and some cams were installed in different motors between the two years, but the regular SBO used the same cam in high and low compression motors from '68 to '76).

- Eric

RAMBOW

I'm in Bothell too, if you need some local help looking at stuff I may be able to help out (my schedule is rediculous, but i can usually find some time to look at cars...)

There have been a couple olds convertibles locally on craigslist that are nice that you might consider.

Not sure if you are hung up on convertibles, but there are some nice hard tops around here as well...

RAMBOW

http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/ctd/3290810924.html - Dealer, but looks nice and clean. Decent price if it looks like that in person.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ctd/3365001196.html - another dealer, price is a little stiff for my liking, but can probably bargain them down some.

I know where an outstanding show quality 66 442 4spd L69 Tripower car is that could be had for about $30k, but its not a convertible.


Edit... Just realize this was an old post hijacked by someone else in a different location... So... disregard :-)

tru-blue 442

Great thread.
It's fun to learn.
I was wondering if I should keep the 70
H heads I have from the blown up 455.
They will be on the shelf for later on.
Doesn't hurt thy have W/ Z's tied to them.
Thanks guys.

Allan R

Your call on keeping them. Any plans for another 455? If not the H heads should bring you a good chunk of change if you need some project cash.