darryl dayton

Thanks to all in advance for any help you can offer.

New here. I am not an Olds guy.

I inherited an 87 Cutlass with V8 and 4 barrel carb. It is pretty much all original with 76K miles. From what my mechanic tells me this car has some kind of odd carb that was a one year only attempt to transition to fuel injection. The one year only plastic piece on the top of the carb is broken and he said he can not rind a replacement for it. He said that he went online to research it and they gave him some kind of jury rig fix which he performed but said it still isn't right. He said the correct thing to do was to replace the carb with an older type. The problem now is that if the car sits over night you have to pump the accelerator about 50 times before you attempt to crank it and even then if it flutters and if it doesn't catch quickly you have to go back to pumping before cranking again.

Is there a simple fix for this or do I need to find a carb? I don't want to spend a lot of money on this old car. Are used carbs for this application readily available and not generally needing a rebuild for a reasonable price?
I don't want to get into changing intake manifolds either. Just looking for the simpliest fix.

What number Quadrajet will fit this engine without mods?

Lady72nRob71

Welcome, Darryl,

I am not aware of anything on the carb that is too different than say an 86 which I have, or even of an 83, 84, 85, or 88.
Carbs were all 4bbl electronic controlled models.
None of the Cutlass 307 V8s got FI. The whole body/chassis/powertrain got scrapped after the 88 model year. The smaller FI Cutlass with V6 "replaced" it.

Can you post a picture of the broke part in question? Did it have wires going into it?

Take a photo that is under 1.5MB in size and then hit the "manage attachments" button and follow the prompts to post it here. I am curious to what this is.

With that low a mileage, and if the body is in good shape, then it WILL be worth repairing it. Those are still popular styles for the Olds guys.

darryl dayton

My camera and my new computer are not compatable or I would post a picture.

I had trouble getting registered here and in the meantime found this on another site:

From the hottroders website listed above:
"That IS an electronic feedback carb. Its hooked to the vehicles computer and is NOT easy to work on and can be screwed up quite easily. The yellow plastic piece on the drivers side front is the throttle position sensor. The blue plug goes to the solonoid that activates the primary metering rods. 9 times out of 10, when attempting to remove the carb top to service it, the button on the top of the TPS gets broken. May be a hard piece to find now days. Got the same carb on my 86 Caprice. So far, I haven't had to open it up. My suggestion is get professional help and DO NOT let anyone talk you into a rebuilt carb. If they cannot fix yours, take it somewhere else! Not too many mechanics are comfortable with the CCC Qjet carb."

You said:
"I am not aware of anything on the carb that is too different than say an 86 which I have, or even of an 83, 84, 85, or 88."

Are you referring to the basic Q-Jet or the fact that all of the above are CCC carbs?

Lady72nRob71

All of the CCC carbs, from 1982-1990 were pretty similar if my memory is working. To keep the computer happy and be able to pass emissions, the CCC carb must be used.

The TPS is still available if that is broken. Rockauto has them for around 30 bucks and even the dealers will (but more $).
If you need 50 pumps to get it started, then the accellerator pump may be bad, too. If the car has sat for a long time and not run, the rubber inside could have dried up and shrunk.

Most younger mechanics nowdays are not familiar with carbs, let alone the CCC carb because there are not many left. These are the ones who may damage it trying to service it on the car. I hear about this often. My mom ditched her wonderful '86 because of a similar situation - I still do not forgive her.
Search for a local mom and pop mechanic and look for an old gray haired guy in overalls - I bet he has worked on these in the late 80s...

A patient person with a detail oriented mind can rebuild these if he has the factory service manual, a pad and pencil, a few egg cartons for parts, and a clean well-lit workspace. Carb rebuild kits are out there, too - i got one from Rockauto for my 86 for whenever I need it.

There are places online who can completely rebuild and replate those carbs if you do not want to do it yourself. Cost may be around 400 but like I said, if the body and interior is good, then it is well worth it to have it running good.

darryl dayton

So you are saying that an older Q-Jet will not run right on this car if I swiched over to one?

Lady72nRob71

A pre-CCC carb could be tuned to work and the car would run good, BUT, the emission stuff and computer will need to be disabled and after then it is possible it will not pass emission tests, if they are done where you live, OR where a buyer lives if you should decide to fix it and sell it.

CQR

Rob is correct. The feedback carbs worked fairly well if correctly set up. There are very few (at least here in Denver) who will work on them or understand them. I would see if you could find someone else who is more familiar with them to do the work.

Oldsguy

Welcome to CO and hope you get the carb set up correctly, good luck.

darryl dayton

Has anyone had any dealing with this supplier? From the sounds of his ad he seems to know thes carbs.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/86-87...item20b9fd4475

CQR

I've never heard/dealt with him. It does sound like he knows some of the issues and the fixes for the q-jet. The rebuild is only half of it. The set-up while running on the car is just as important as the build. This is not a plug and play carb. The MC solenoid dwell needs to be set at cruise and idle to keep you from getting a check engine light. It doesn't show in his picture, but make sure that the adjustment holes are not plugged, otherwise you will have to take the airhorn back off to remove the plugs before you can put it on and set it up.

Also, I just searched for the Mixture control solenoid and came up with several sources for around $35. Why not try to fix yours?

Lady72nRob71

Good point here...

His needs the TPS (throttle position sensor) but it is actually cheaper at about $25.

If you go that route, I would NOT send back the original core until the new carb is set up and running well.

I have not heard of that guy nor do I do epay anymore, so i would not be able to give any advice there, other than the usual "buyer beware".
Not a bad price though if it does work well.

CQR

Sorry, I missed that. It is still readily available locally. Carquest #38013 for the economy line.

joe_padavano

The fact that your mechanic thinks this is a "one year only" carb tells me that he does not really know much about the CCC system. As others have pointed out, this system (and this carb design) was used for nearly a decade on millions of Oldsmobile, Buick, and Chevy engines. The CCC Qjet (and the similar CCC Dualjet used on the V6 engines) works very well if set up properly, but you MUST follow the rebuild and adjustment procedure EXACTLY as described in the factory service manual. Also, the CCC system uses about ten miles of vacuum hoses and by now many are cracked and leaking. Any leak will disrupt the system and cause a driveability problem but will not set a computer code. Similarly, failures in the A.I.R. system can cause the car to run rich but will not set a code. This is where true diagnostic skills are important. Sadly, this is a lost art with most "mechanics", who have become simply "parts changers" who only know how to replace the part that the computer tells them to replace.

The first time I dealt with a CCC system, it took me about a month of weekends to finally figure out how it worked and what needed to be replaced. Once I had it properly adjusted, it performed flawlessly for two years without touching it.

By the way, note that not all CCC carbs are exactly the same. The early 80s carbs have a slightly different internal configuration than the later ones. This is mainly a function of how the idle vent is controlled by the mixture control solenoid.

darryl dayton

Thanks for all the help guys. I will get the part now that I have a number and see if I can fix the original carb.

Lady72nRob71

IF you need an exploded parts view of the carb, let me know.

darryl dayton

OK, new info and questions.

I spoke with the mechanic I had look this thing over and he said he did not remove or eliminate the TPS. In fact he did not think it was the problem. He thought it was some other part on the carb that is computer controlled. He said he could not find availability for it. I forgot what he called it and I did not write it down as I was talking to him as I was driving. He said that he thought it could be this part or possibly the computer that controlled it but did not want to buy a computer at my expense to find out that was not it. He said he checked all of the vacuum lines and they were OK. Anybody have an idea of what part this may be and if it is available?

Another thing I have not mention, driving on a rough road the check engine light fickers and sometimes stays on longer. Computer problem or no?

Ideas/suggestions with this new info??

CQR

Yes you have a problem. if the light flickers. The ECM's (computers) in those days did occasionally fail and could be diagnosed by tapping on them with your fingers or by placing them in front of the heater outlet and heating them up. The other electrical part on that carb is the MC solenoid (Mixture Control). They are readily available as well. Here is one, but I think that Carquest has a number for these as well.

http://compare.ebay.com/like/2806765...=sbar&_lwgsi=y

I'm not at the shop right now, But i would be happy to look it up and get you a part number. The solenoid is easy enough to test. It's just coil and should have a certain resistance.Let me know if you need me to go further.

Lady72nRob71

There are only two electrical parts int hat carb - the TPS and mixture control solenoid.
What part is actually broken as mentioned in your original post?

As for the check engine light, here is a simple procedure to finding out what the code is.
http://tlentz.oldsgmail.com/howto.html#Computer

Report back what you find.