Joffroi

Hi,

I want to start this thread to keep track of what is going to be a long restoration process. I'm probably not your typical Oldsmobile owner, but got bit by the bug and just love everything about them.

Brief background:
Got involved with Oldsmobile about 5 years ago. Below is what I've owned in about a 5 year span.
1970 Cutlass SX
1968 Cutlass S
1972 Restored restomod Cutlass Supreme

I graduated in 2008 and have a B.S. in computer engineering. I am by all means not a mechanic, but feel all things can be learned if you put up the effort to do so. I used some of my better skills to make oldsmobilecentral.com.
(any local mechanics need web work / computer help and want to sway trades, let me know )

New Car:
I've loved the 68 body style, and especially the 442 convertible model (essentially my dream car). I finally found one semi-locally that was in a price range I could afford. It had issues; some rust, interior work, no top. But it had the original motor that seemed to run really well. I decided to sell the restored 72 to get it. I didn't know if I was going to find another running 68 442 convertible that I could afford.

The Big Plan:
I'm on the 10-15 year plan with this. I have 2 boys, oldest is 2.5. I want this to be something they can remember the transformation and enjoy when they are older.

The Closer Plan:
Break down the major restoration parts into small "chunks" and get a timeline figured out when I could get / afford to get things done. I've been talking to a restoration shop locally. The guys have been very nice and I said I can bring my car their to get their profession opinion on what I can do, what they can do, and start getting ballpark figures on cost.

Objective:
Hopefully get this thing looking nice and safe to drive. I'm sure I'm not the only guy that doesn't have much mechanical experience so I plan on documenting and publishing as much as possible. No matter the complexity, I will do my best to document the effort and also cost. I not only hope to learn a lot of this and get the reward of having a fixed up car, but also help others with all the issues I'm going to come up with.

I want to thank everyone in advance for the help.

Joffroi

This post is reserved to link to issues I've hit. I will keep this post up to date with new issues that come up and also when issues get fixed.

Current Status:
1) Drained my gas tank, look for time to completely drop the tag so I can investigate on the leak while driving issue. I'm thinking its a seal around the pump.
2) I think I found my donor frame from a 70 Cutlass Convertible.

Issue #1: Frame Rust
Start Date: 3/18/14 - ongoing
Description: Once I received the car, I started poking around more. I found an area of rust in the front that wasn't too bad. Unfortunately, I found another area under the driver seat. This was large enough to conclude that I was going to need a donor frame.
Link: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...epairable.html
Status: Open (Currently trying to find another frame locally)
Cost: --

Issue #2: Flat Tires
Dates: 3/18/14 - 3/19/14
Description: Two of my tires are go flat if the car isn't driven after a couple days.
Status: Closed. These are new tires on aftermarket rims. Just needed to be resealed.
Cost: $20/tire at NTB.

Issue #3: Engine dying on idle
Dates: 3/18/14 - 3/19/14
Description: The engine would die as long as I wasn't giving it gas.
Link: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...asing-gas.html
Status: Partially Closed.
Solution: It no longer seems to be related to the PCV connections. The issue happened again and this time my adjusting the choke, I could clearly hear a different and the fact that it needs to be adjusted.
Cost: --

Issue #4: Gas tank leak
Dates: 3/20/14
Description: Filed up the tank about halfway and noticed a gas leak. Didn't see a hole in the tank. Seems to only leak when driving.
Link: n/a
Status: Open
Solution:
Cost: --

Issue #5: Engine knocking sound?
Dates: 3/20/14
Description: I noticed while driving a little bit I suddenly heard a knocking sound from the engine compartment. In a panic I pulled over and popped the hood. Heard nothing. Went away completely until about 10 minutes of driving later. Got home, stopped the car to take care of kids. After 10 minutes, I wanted to film the noise, started the car and heard nothing wrong again.
Link: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post672062
Status: Open
Solution:
Cost: --

halfmoontrail

Cool car, and great thread. Best of luck as you proceed.
Steve

Joffroi

Thanks. Added more info about my latest issue (#5). This is going to be so much fun haha

Boiler_81

Based on the rust on the rest of the car, the gas tank has a rust hole in it someplace. It needs to be replaced. Spectra makes a good replacement for about $150. You will want to get new straps and mounting hardware as well. Double check the part number. I think the one above is correct.

sammy

Great thread layout!...will be following....

Joffroi

$150 for a new tank with free shipping? That's worth replacing to just make it look nicer! Thanks for the link

11971four4two

nice price on the tank


spray lots of MAW fluid on the straps bolts nuts
I use justice brothers JB80

Allan R

Aaaccck! I might be dead and buried by then....Hey, this sounds just like the series "Tool Time" when Tim was building the Ford in the garage!

Very sensible and it considers your family/financial needs too. Don't be too shocked at the number that comes back from the restoration shop. It might be a project killer. (sorry to say that, but usually these projects end up taking 2-3 times more time and 4-5 times more $$$$$$$$$$$$$)

Boiler_81

In my opinion, most restorations do not make financial sense. Paying a shop to restore a car will almost always cost more than the completed value. You would be better off just buying one which has already been done.

If you do the work yourself, it makes sense only if you look at the restoration as a hobby and therefore don't assign a value to your labor.

lshlsh2

Don't be so quick on your gas tank. I thought I had a hole in mine turned out to be rotten fuel line on one of the vent lines. $10 for new fuel line and clamps was as good as new. Also needed new bolts for the tank as the old ones I had cut off.

Larry

Boilerz25

Couldnt agree more. Do a restoration for the fun and enjoyment of watching something come back to better than originally produced. I dont expect to make money on my car but, the learning that comes from doing a restoration is priceless.

Sean

Joffroi

For sure, I figured I'd empty and then drop the tank before I do any ordering of new parts just to see what is going on up there.

Although I'd like to think I got the car for "cheap", I don't expect to make any money form this when its all said and done. As you mentioned, if I can pull off getting this done in the many years to come, the reward will be priceless. I'll do what I can and then bight the bullet on the things I need to get a shop to do (unless of course everything just gets to be too overwhelming and I scrap the project). Yea, the 1968 442 convertible is my dream car, but the adventure and stories I'll have with it are what I'm looking for.

Boiler_81

It sounds like you have the right attitude on this car. The only concern I would have is your plan to do it in chunks and keep driving it. When you pull the body in order to replace the frame, I'm sure you will find significant body rot which will need to be repaired. These things tend to stack up and before you know it you have torn the car bare. At that point you will be without a car until you complete the restoration.

If you do decide to jump in and do this, there are plenty of us here who have the experience and can help you. You said you have a degree in CE. Therefore, I assume you have a logical technical mind. This is the perfect combination for doing a restoration. It will take awhile but the journey to the completed project will be very memorable.

69ishHoliday

Joffroi,
My car is only a year younger than yours and I recently had to replace the rubber fuel lines that come off the forward location on the tank. I was ready to just buy a new tank and then crawled underneath and located the real problem. Not more than a month later I replaced the same size and type of hoses at the front of the engine coming off the fuel pump for the same leaking reason. Before you buy a new tank you might check the rubber hoses, my repair cost less than twenty dollars and I didn't need a new tank. - Steven

Boiler_81

It may be the hoses. However, based on the photos of the frame, I would replace the tank for $150. If it doesn't have holes, it is at least very ugly and probably very thin.

Joffroi

I'm leaning to the same direction as you. With all this being said, it seems pretty straight forward to remove the tank. However, all of you who have done it before, got any hints / tips on the process off getting the gas out (about 8 gallons) and then dropping the tank?

Boilerz25

I just did mine. Pretty easy process. I bought a pump siphon at Autozone and sucked all fuel from tank to a 5gal tank. Then disconnected the sending unit lines and vent if you have one. The tank weighs about 40lbs so i put a jack underneath while removing the two strap bolts. That should do it. Check between tank top and tar paper for build or broadcast sheet while you are at it.

Sean

Joffroi

Tonight I actually had about a surprise hour for working on the car. I was actually going to go ahead and try to drop my tank, but unfortunately my siphoning technique didn't go so well. Looks like I'll need to make a trip and get a cheap pump.

However, was rummaging through the trunk in a box of spare parts from the previous owner and found this awesome license plate. Maybe its the first one that was on the car.

RkWsJsb.jpg

I also took the time to ensure the engine was truly numbers matching. Clear as day, same last 6 digits so that was awesome to see.

ioPntVX.jpg

I also experienced my car dying in idle again (Issue 3). This time I popped off the airfilter and messed with the choke. I could clearly hear a different in the engine idling and I suspect that is definitely the problem. Didn't have time to really mess more then that though.

TK-65

A 68 442 vert is your dream car. The thing you have to ask yourself is your dream working on said car for 10-15 years or driving said car for those 10-15 years. And the next 10-15 years.

Working on a project car for 15 years is quite frankly, asinine. Unless you love working on cars. Because the time you invest in working on it could have been spent driving a much nicer vehicle. You saved some cash by buying a car that needs everything, but you could have spent more now and saved a ton down the road. AND had a car that you could enjoy driving today. Think about that before you start spending cash on the car you bought.

Joffroi

I don't have any "this was my high school car" or "my dad had one of these" stories. I want to make my own story and build my own attachment. Maybe this car is too much of me and I do need to cut my loss, find one that is in a little better shape. But then again, maybe its not. I guess we'll see

Joffroi

Looks like I may have found a frame (chassis actually) from a 1970 Cutlass Convertible about 2 hours away. I'll get more pictures of it next week to see if its in good enough condition to work (seller is out of town this week).
EvWHe5K.jpg

My work and other family commitments have been keeping me very busy so I haven't had time to drop my gas tank to look into the leaking issue when driving yet.

I did take a picture of my simple looking cowl tag. I was wondering if any of you could decode it with ease.

pxpgSyq.jpg

coppercutlass

Just to chime in a bit. My dad has been working on his car for 15 years mainly procrastination and family . Is it perfect . NO . I took over the last 5 years and we really made progress . Now that we are almost done he tells me he is going to give it to me when he buys a new car since he has no space. Now I'm not saying I don't want his car but I kinda wanted him to enjoy it lol. Joffori I can relate . I made memories and lots of them when working on my 72 and working on my dads pontiac the past 5 years brought us closer. Just remember when it stops being fun for the day walk away and don't let the frustration get to you. The last few years have not been fun as I have been chasing my tail and this year I decided to just not drive it and replace my frame and re paint it and not rush it . I enjoy working on my car more than driving it.

Allan R

The rolling chassis looks great from that pic! Score 1 for you.

Your cowl tag decodes like this:
pxpgSyq.jpg

02D - Fisher body production date build. 5th week (D) of Feb (02) 1968. Seems funny to have 5 weeks in Feb, but in 68 it happened because the start of month and end of month were partially in 'a week'.
ST 68 - 1968 model production
3 - Oldsmobile division
36 - Model; Cutlass with V8
67 - body style: convertible
LAN - Lansing production
285148 - Body number assigned by Lansing Fisher Body Works
TR 950 - Black interior
PAINT - Y - 2 Saffron with Black top

fiebs442

Sounds like a nice project and so what if it takes 10-15 years to complete. As long as you enjoy working on it as a hobby. The big problem becomes when your priorities change; will that cause you to lose interest.
I too am in the process of restoring a 69 442 convertible. I picked it up last August and been working on it slowly but surely. I have as much interest as I did when I started. My hope is 5-8 years to complete. I have pretty much stripped everything off the outside and body of the car. I am looking to raise the body off the frame when I can. At some point I will probably start a thread just like you.
Some suggestions:
-Don't be in too much of a hurry to buy new parts as you may not need them for many years. If you find something used at a good price, then maybe it is worth getting.
- Bag and tag everything. Later on when you want to put it back together, you will be asking yourself "where does this go"?
- Take lots of pictures as it will help later on when putting back together.
There are lots of good information on the internet like parts manuals, assembly manuals, etc. I can point you to where you can find them if you like.

Joffroi

Just wanted to give an update on my project. With kids and work, its definitely "a little work here, a little work there..." kind of project haha.

Gas tank leak update:
Surprisingly enough, a $3 manual siphon pump from home depot work well. Slowly put surely I was able to get the majority of the gas out of the tank. This is my first Oldsmobile to have a working gas gauge so it was nice to see it slowly go to E and stop there. Hopefully I have time this weekend to actually take out the tank. It looks pretty straightforward to do this.

Frame Update:
I think I found my donor frame. I'm working with the seller to get it over here and should have it in a week - 2 weeks. From there I'll have a bunch of questions on what you think I should do when I get it.
1) Clean then POR-15 it
2) Redo break lines on the new chassis
3) Suspension work.

The goal is to be able to afford a shop to do the transfer, then enjoy the drivable car for a few months before I really start taking it apart. But obviously, since the car will be transplanted, I'd like to take car of a few other suggested things while its taken apart and being transplanted.

barnfind

Im on year 11 with a conv project (I hope to drive it before I get too old) . Its taken this long for repo and orig parts to be obtained along with real life. You have a passion for this car and looks like your doing it right. Part of your own memories with this car will be this build. Its important to step away when things get overwhelming with a build that seems endless. Ive picked up new skills by taking on cars that most turn their noses up at. JMO

rcktdoc

68 frames are different in a couple places than the 70 and up frames. above the rear end at the arch the 68 is shaped to clear the inner wheel house on 70-72 they laid the frame at an angle in that spot, and the front crossmember is shaped different than 69 and up.The front is only estetic.

Greg

Joffroi

I'm not worried about esthetics for my frame, I just want to have a safe drivable car that is overall correct. Is there rear difference going to be an issue?

rcktdoc

I think it will,they nothced the 68/69 frames to clear the inner wheel houses. The 70-72 frames arent nothced. You may want to check clearance on your existing frame where the wheelhouse comes closest to the frame over the rearend.
Greg

Joffroi

From the discussion in my frame repair thread it seemed like any 68-72 abody frame would do.

On the gas tank note, I was able to get the fuel lines disconnected from the tank without taking a gas shower so that was nice. I got the ground wire disconnected, but only because the connection to the car broke. I'll have to replace that when I put all this back together. I started working on the very stiff main bolts connecting the straps, but my epic battle to make them move got interrupted by my son waking up from his nap. I'll try again hopefully tonight. Good thing I'm skinny, working around the exhaust and getting anywhere is a fun little challenge.

rcktdoc

Ok if you think so.

Greg

Joffroi

I'm probably one of these least knowledgeable Oldsmobile guys on these boards. I want to learn, I like the cars, and come here heavily for help and answers. I'm just going off people are telling me.

For the sake of not wasting money, I'm hoping you're wrong and others are right.

rcktdoc

I restore these cars for a living,Oldsmobile wouldnt have dished the frame in that area if it didnt need to be.

Greg

Allan R

Greg, I respect your comment and read below that you're a restorer. Is the comment about the frame differences only related to the 68/69 verts compared to the 70-72 verts?

rcktdoc

No all 68-69 frames are dished at the arch above the rearend on the outside of the frame rail, The 70-72 frames arent dished.

Greg

Allan R

I guess my question should have been more specific. Is the dishing only on the vert frames?

From what I've read and been schooled on, all HT and Post A body 68-72 (112") frames are the same and so are the 68-72 (116") frames are the same. Yes? No?

rcktdoc

No the dished area is on all 68-69 abodys. I will take a pic of a 69 442 frame if someone can post it.

Greg

rcktdoc

joffroi,I sent the pics to your Email.

Greg

Joffroi

Got the pictures. I also went ahead and looked at my 68 and figured out what you were talking about. Worst case scenario, couldn't I eventually trim part of the inner panel? I'm not looking to make my car a perfect show car, but want a nice driver. I do definitely see where you are talking about the clearance of the fender wouldn't work if the dished part wasn't there.

Gregs great looking frame.
9b5NAat.jpg

My not so great looking frame
QOnoIuM.jpg