Fell Into My Lap - Documented 1970 W-30
November 11th, 2013, 06:53 PM
#1
Fell Into My Lap - Documented 1970 W-30
Just finished my 72 442 vert. and was just telling the wife the other day - REALLY -THIS IS IT - no more restos.
Until Yesterday.
A nice sunny Sunday afternoon, and somehow I get a cell phone call from a guy I had met 20 years ago. I had visited in business in 1994 to do a site survey for a new phone system my company was thinking of buying, and in the course of the visit he mentioned he liked old cars. I said I was a Olds fan, and he said he had something in the warehouse I might like to see. In addition to many other musclecars, in the corner was a Blue 1970 442 W-30 covered in a thick layer of dust. I don't remember all the specifics of what I saw, but it was enough to tell him that if he were to want to sell it, contact me first.
We would occasionally bump into each other for a few years after and discuss cars. He always had his family with him, and was always gracious and would find time to talk with me. The subject of the W-30 never came up, but I'm sure he knew I would be interested. I last saw him (until today) in 2000 at a Sonic Cruise In, and fell out of touch afterwards. Family and business had to come first for awhile - and rightfully so.
So yesterday, he calls up and says - "You still want that 442? It's for sale. Come by tomorrow if you are interested - I need to sell it quick." So today, I go and look her over and two beers later - SOLD.
Here's what I bought:
1970 442 Holiday W-30 - (344870M258XXX) with original broadcast "card" with W30 in the 3rd box. (01D Date on the trim tag)
Exterior Color - AstroBlue (25) in both body color positions (no vinyl top)
Interior Color - Black (930) completely original, mint condition and unmolested,except for dash bead falling out, center console bezel chrome flaking, window crank ***** yellowing, aftermarket underdash gauges, and package tray having some aftermarket, but very well installed 6X9 speakers in it. Door panels, dash, seat covers, headliner, sail panels, original front seat backs in excellent shape - good enough to take to the Nationals with just a good cleaning.
Options - Auto, A/C, P/S, P/B, Dual gate, tinted glass (I think), front buckets with console, clock.
General Body - Original, perfect W-25 hood (there is no comparison between an OE or Thornton hood and any of the aftermarket versions - period) All trim/brightwork on the car in excellent condition with just a buffing needed - if at that. Front bumper excellent. Rear cutout bumper will need to be rechromed. Paint is fair. Had a re-spray in the mid 1980's, and has some rust bubbling in the front lower fenders, and lower rear quarters right behind wheel openings. Floors, rockers, rear window, cowl all are excellent and rust free. OE 442 grilles are pristine, no tabs broken , no cracks. Will need new tail light and reverse lenses. Glass is excellent, weather stripping is very good - might need the door weatherstrips only.
Engine - VIN matching block, F heads, 406115 (Oldsmobile W-455) intake, 402294 & 5 exhaust manifolds,704028 carb, Harrison radiator, OE red wells with very little fading, all wiring/vacuum hoses in unmolested condition except for the addition of aftermarket gauge senders, PVS, TCS, hot air tube and stove still there, OAI flapper and base in excellent condition. Almost all of the clips and fasteners look to be OE. A/C system complete. Oh, and does the thing sound good when you start it.....
Transmission - VIN matching OW
Rear End - did not get this code, but I'm assuming it's a 3.08 limited slip.
Major work needed - The car has no brakes at all. Will need new wheel cylinders, calipers, master cylinder, booster (Steve Gregoire - I'll be calling soon!) Will need to fix rust and contemplate doing a respray. Reseal the engine, clean detail the engine compartment/underbody, and that's about it - plus, this paint combo screams out for SS1's with GoodyearRWL repro bias ply tires.
Two questions for the Joe P's, Allan R's,Patton G's and others - you know who you are:
1) Yes or no, was U21 a mandatory option with W30? My car has no gauges, but does have the clock.
2) I have on the firewall a Delco voltage regulator with the capacitor. It's a pristine stagger script job with no wires going to it, and nothing cut/missing on the engine wiring harness. The alternator is the internally regulated job. Everything says this is a 442, any ideas why it would be there?
Thanks for reading my long winded post. Cant wait to get started on it!!!!
Until Yesterday.
A nice sunny Sunday afternoon, and somehow I get a cell phone call from a guy I had met 20 years ago. I had visited in business in 1994 to do a site survey for a new phone system my company was thinking of buying, and in the course of the visit he mentioned he liked old cars. I said I was a Olds fan, and he said he had something in the warehouse I might like to see. In addition to many other musclecars, in the corner was a Blue 1970 442 W-30 covered in a thick layer of dust. I don't remember all the specifics of what I saw, but it was enough to tell him that if he were to want to sell it, contact me first.
We would occasionally bump into each other for a few years after and discuss cars. He always had his family with him, and was always gracious and would find time to talk with me. The subject of the W-30 never came up, but I'm sure he knew I would be interested. I last saw him (until today) in 2000 at a Sonic Cruise In, and fell out of touch afterwards. Family and business had to come first for awhile - and rightfully so.
So yesterday, he calls up and says - "You still want that 442? It's for sale. Come by tomorrow if you are interested - I need to sell it quick." So today, I go and look her over and two beers later - SOLD.
Here's what I bought:
1970 442 Holiday W-30 - (344870M258XXX) with original broadcast "card" with W30 in the 3rd box. (01D Date on the trim tag)
Exterior Color - AstroBlue (25) in both body color positions (no vinyl top)
Interior Color - Black (930) completely original, mint condition and unmolested,except for dash bead falling out, center console bezel chrome flaking, window crank ***** yellowing, aftermarket underdash gauges, and package tray having some aftermarket, but very well installed 6X9 speakers in it. Door panels, dash, seat covers, headliner, sail panels, original front seat backs in excellent shape - good enough to take to the Nationals with just a good cleaning.
Options - Auto, A/C, P/S, P/B, Dual gate, tinted glass (I think), front buckets with console, clock.
General Body - Original, perfect W-25 hood (there is no comparison between an OE or Thornton hood and any of the aftermarket versions - period) All trim/brightwork on the car in excellent condition with just a buffing needed - if at that. Front bumper excellent. Rear cutout bumper will need to be rechromed. Paint is fair. Had a re-spray in the mid 1980's, and has some rust bubbling in the front lower fenders, and lower rear quarters right behind wheel openings. Floors, rockers, rear window, cowl all are excellent and rust free. OE 442 grilles are pristine, no tabs broken , no cracks. Will need new tail light and reverse lenses. Glass is excellent, weather stripping is very good - might need the door weatherstrips only.
Engine - VIN matching block, F heads, 406115 (Oldsmobile W-455) intake, 402294 & 5 exhaust manifolds,704028 carb, Harrison radiator, OE red wells with very little fading, all wiring/vacuum hoses in unmolested condition except for the addition of aftermarket gauge senders, PVS, TCS, hot air tube and stove still there, OAI flapper and base in excellent condition. Almost all of the clips and fasteners look to be OE. A/C system complete. Oh, and does the thing sound good when you start it.....
Transmission - VIN matching OW
Rear End - did not get this code, but I'm assuming it's a 3.08 limited slip.
Major work needed - The car has no brakes at all. Will need new wheel cylinders, calipers, master cylinder, booster (Steve Gregoire - I'll be calling soon!) Will need to fix rust and contemplate doing a respray. Reseal the engine, clean detail the engine compartment/underbody, and that's about it - plus, this paint combo screams out for SS1's with GoodyearRWL repro bias ply tires.
Two questions for the Joe P's, Allan R's,Patton G's and others - you know who you are:
1) Yes or no, was U21 a mandatory option with W30? My car has no gauges, but does have the clock.
2) I have on the firewall a Delco voltage regulator with the capacitor. It's a pristine stagger script job with no wires going to it, and nothing cut/missing on the engine wiring harness. The alternator is the internally regulated job. Everything says this is a 442, any ideas why it would be there?
Thanks for reading my long winded post. Cant wait to get started on it!!!!
Last edited by costpenn; November 13th, 2013 at 10:24 AM.
November 11th, 2013, 07:55 PM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Delta BC Canada
Posts: 3,688
great
Awesome score. Nice work!
FYI standard rear end on an a/c equipped W-30 is 3.23 gears with mandatory posi. Some say that they have also seen a/c equipped cars 3.42s & have the documentation to prove it. So it is unlikely that your car has 3.08s.
FYI standard rear end on an a/c equipped W-30 is 3.23 gears with mandatory posi. Some say that they have also seen a/c equipped cars 3.42s & have the documentation to prove it. So it is unlikely that your car has 3.08s.
November 13th, 2013, 10:22 AM
#12
To any interested DFW area CO'ers:
I'm bringing the car home next Monday the 18th. For anyone who would want to, I sure would appreciate anyone coming over Monday afternoon/early evening for your assessment/analysis and comments on the car before I begin tearing it apart. I'll provide pizza and beer and a well lighted, indoor (i.e. my garage) for the get together. I'm in Carrollton so if interested, let me know and I'll provide more details.
Thanks,
Joe
I'm bringing the car home next Monday the 18th. For anyone who would want to, I sure would appreciate anyone coming over Monday afternoon/early evening for your assessment/analysis and comments on the car before I begin tearing it apart. I'll provide pizza and beer and a well lighted, indoor (i.e. my garage) for the get together. I'm in Carrollton so if interested, let me know and I'll provide more details.
Thanks,
Joe
November 13th, 2013, 12:45 PM
#14
car guy
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 5,656
To any interested DFW area CO'ers:
I'm bringing the car home next Monday the 18th. For anyone who would want to, I sure would appreciate anyone coming over Monday afternoon/early evening for your assessment/analysis and comments on the car before I begin tearing it apart. I'll provide pizza and beer and a well lighted, indoor (i.e. my garage) for the get together. I'm in Carrollton so if interested, let me know and I'll provide more details.
Thanks,
Joe
I'm bringing the car home next Monday the 18th. For anyone who would want to, I sure would appreciate anyone coming over Monday afternoon/early evening for your assessment/analysis and comments on the car before I begin tearing it apart. I'll provide pizza and beer and a well lighted, indoor (i.e. my garage) for the get together. I'm in Carrollton so if interested, let me know and I'll provide more details.
Thanks,
Joe
November 13th, 2013, 12:59 PM
#15
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chi-town
Posts: 4,511
Wow, congrats, you don't hear stories like this much anymore. I'm jealous
As mentioned rally pac was optional - so was sport wheel though many think it wasn't - which one does your car have.
Should have 3.23s
what code is on the radiator and how about part number on the distributor
what side of the car is the windshield washer reservoir on?
is the alternator openfaced? whats the part number? should be 11100890 (or 11000890) something like that.
As mentioned rally pac was optional - so was sport wheel though many think it wasn't - which one does your car have.
Should have 3.23s
what code is on the radiator and how about part number on the distributor
what side of the car is the windshield washer reservoir on?
is the alternator openfaced? whats the part number? should be 11100890 (or 11000890) something like that.
November 13th, 2013, 02:17 PM
#17
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Nice score Joe! From what you described this one will be 'easier' - oh look, an eagle....
1. U21 was an option for all the A bodies from 67 on. I sure wish it was a standard feature of the W cars and 442s though as there would be a lot more good OEM units to choose from.
2. All 1970 442s used an internal voltage regulator. My guess is that someone started installing that cowl regulator by mistake and decided to just leave it?
Shouldn't the casting numbers on the 1970 F heads for W30's be 404438?
Couple of things I want to mention for your thoughts
a) The W30 ordering guide shows having a 3.42:1 axle standard unless AC was added, then it becomes a 3.23:1 axle.
b) I thought the W30 was only offered with manual front disc Brakes, not power because of the cam.
Sounds like you have a great car and another project ahead of you Joe!
1. U21 was an option for all the A bodies from 67 on. I sure wish it was a standard feature of the W cars and 442s though as there would be a lot more good OEM units to choose from.
2. All 1970 442s used an internal voltage regulator. My guess is that someone started installing that cowl regulator by mistake and decided to just leave it?
Shouldn't the casting numbers on the 1970 F heads for W30's be 404438?
Couple of things I want to mention for your thoughts
a) The W30 ordering guide shows having a 3.42:1 axle standard unless AC was added, then it becomes a 3.23:1 axle.
b) I thought the W30 was only offered with manual front disc Brakes, not power because of the cam.
Sounds like you have a great car and another project ahead of you Joe!
November 13th, 2013, 02:26 PM
#18
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chi-town
Posts: 4,511
Automatic Trans W30 442s had the same cam as a 442 auto trans car in 70
November 13th, 2013, 02:33 PM
#19
Nice score Joe! From what you described this one will be 'easier' - oh look, an eagle....
1. U21 was an option for all the A bodies from 67 on. I sure wish it was a standard feature of the W cars and 442s though as there would be a lot more good OEM units to choose from.
2. All 1970 442s used an internal voltage regulator. My guess is that someone started installing that cowl regulator by mistake and decided to just leave it?
Shouldn't the casting numbers on the 1970 F heads for W30's be 404438?
Couple of things I want to mention for your thoughts
a) The W30 ordering guide shows having a 3.42:1 axle standard unless AC was added, then it becomes a 3.23:1 axle.
b) I thought the W30 was only offered with manual front disc Brakes, not power because of the cam.
Sounds like you have a great car and another project ahead of you Joe!
1. U21 was an option for all the A bodies from 67 on. I sure wish it was a standard feature of the W cars and 442s though as there would be a lot more good OEM units to choose from.
2. All 1970 442s used an internal voltage regulator. My guess is that someone started installing that cowl regulator by mistake and decided to just leave it?
Shouldn't the casting numbers on the 1970 F heads for W30's be 404438?
Couple of things I want to mention for your thoughts
a) The W30 ordering guide shows having a 3.42:1 axle standard unless AC was added, then it becomes a 3.23:1 axle.
b) I thought the W30 was only offered with manual front disc Brakes, not power because of the cam.
Sounds like you have a great car and another project ahead of you Joe!
I'm very curious about the voltage regulator. Looking forward at the disassembly party to see if I can deduce when it was installed and look for any kind of date code on the unit.
On your thoughts
1) I have not looked at the rear end at all, and I guess I assumed 3.08 since that's what my A/C 68 Hurst has. I'm sure it's a 3.23, and am wondering if that rear end might be a little lighter than a normal one is (fantasyland W-27)
2) I'm pretty sure the auto W-30's could be ordered with P/B - it's the stick cars and that ridiculous 328 deg. cam with massive amounts of overlap that are manual brakes only.
Cheers,
Joe
November 13th, 2013, 02:38 PM
#20
Wow, congrats, you don't hear stories like this much anymore. I'm jealous
As mentioned rally pac was optional - so was sport wheel though many think it wasn't - which one does your car have.
Should have 3.23s
what code is on the radiator and how about part number on the distributor
what side of the car is the windshield washer reservoir on?
is the alternator openfaced? whats the part number? should be 11100890 (or 11000890) something like that.
As mentioned rally pac was optional - so was sport wheel though many think it wasn't - which one does your car have.
Should have 3.23s
what code is on the radiator and how about part number on the distributor
what side of the car is the windshield washer reservoir on?
is the alternator openfaced? whats the part number? should be 11100890 (or 11000890) something like that.
Don't have the radiator code yet, will get it Monday at the welcoming home party.
Bottle is on the passenger side - and it looks original - cracked and yellowed.
Alternator is not open faced - will begin the hunt soon along with an original U21 set up.
November 13th, 2013, 02:43 PM
#21
Can't wait to see the pics. The voltage regulator on the firewall I assume was done away with when they swapped to the internal regulated alternator.
November 13th, 2013, 03:09 PM
#25
car guy
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 5,656
November 13th, 2013, 03:47 PM
#26
November 13th, 2013, 03:49 PM
#27
November 13th, 2013, 04:44 PM
#28
Wow Joe! What a great story. It sure gives me hope that that guy with the Hemi Cuda that I talked to in 1989 still has my number. Hopefully my outrageously high $ 8500.00 offer is still good. You really do not hear these stories too much any more. Congratulations! Lets see some more pics. The first looks great. The pizza and beer offer had me looking at ticket prices!
November 15th, 2013, 06:47 AM
#29
Wow Joe! What a great story. It sure gives me hope that that guy with the Hemi Cuda that I talked to in 1989 still has my number. Hopefully my outrageously high $ 8500.00 offer is still good. You really do not hear these stories too much any more. Congratulations! Lets see some more pics. The first looks great. The pizza and beer offer had me looking at ticket prices!
Every time I read one of your posts, all I can think of us how to pronounce that name of that town you have in your signature.
November 15th, 2013, 07:22 AM
#31
Runner
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ballwin, MO
Posts: 1,714
Thats really a great story and a great looking car. Congrats on the find. I still always keep one eye open for the outline of a classic Olds under a tarp when driving through tiny towns in hopes of being able to post a story on CO.
November 15th, 2013, 08:33 AM
#32
Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Delta BC Canada
Posts: 3,688
November 15th, 2013, 06:04 PM
#33
[QUOTE=
Every time I read one of your posts, all I can think of us how to pronounce that name of that town you have in your signature.[/QUOTE]
You would not believe how many times I am ordering something over the phone and giving my address and the person on the other end of the phone goes Excuse me? I think they think I am cursing at them
FYI it is pronounced
few quay
. Good luck with that new project.
Every time I read one of your posts, all I can think of us how to pronounce that name of that town you have in your signature.[/QUOTE]
You would not believe how many times I am ordering something over the phone and giving my address and the person on the other end of the phone goes Excuse me? I think they think I am cursing at them
FYI it is pronounced few quay
. Good luck with that new project.
November 21st, 2013, 01:51 PM
#36
Well, have had the car a few days and had a chance to go over it with a fine tooth comb. Here's a condensed version of the findings:
Originally sold Feb 7, 1970 to Riteway Electric in Chicago, Il. What a company car! It was built the 4th week of Jan so it didn't sit long, or was a special order car.
It keeps getting better from an originality standpoint. Was titled to the guy I bought it from in May 1989 with 93,700 miles on it, and it today has a little over 95,500. In addition to all the things mentioned above, looks to have all the original front end items (tie rods, center link, ball joints, bushings) in it, but somewhere along the line the idler arm was changed. Brake calipers, hoses, wheel cylinders, hardware, drums and rotors and lines with the exception of the rear dist block to wheel cylinder lines look original. Coil springs appear very tired, and someone put LONG AGO some Gabriel air shocks on it that have had the lines completely disintegrate.
Car has 15" 74-75 vintage SS111's on it with excellent GM trim rings (3 of the 4 with a good buffing could pass for NOS) and bezels. Center caps are lightly pitted, but the weirdest thing is the tires - F60-15 Goodyear RWL bias ply tires with the letters turned inward. I have never seen tires so dry rotted hold air - they must be from the early 80's.
Interior continues to amaze, I might be able to save the original carpeting with a good cleaning. Rally steering wheel is not oozing or scratched.
Original "grey" jack with hook is in the trunk.
Engine compartment has the original wiper motor with washer pump, master cylinder has the bleeds but do not know if it is original, however, it is leaking like it is the original. Booster looks to be the one with the car and still had a remnant of the "hanging" paper tag that goes on check valve.
Heath (Funkwagon455) got underneath and scraped on the rear axle tube until he found the code - SF (3.23 limited slip)
Not so good things:
Rust. Will need RH outer rear wheel well and possibly the LH as well, LH door, both rear quarter skins and LH front fender, or both if I want to havethe correct 70 fenders on it. Floors still look solid along with the trunk floor, but am not 100% sure that no repairs will be needed. A little bit around the rear window, fixable.
Wiper motor does not work
Radio lights up, but no sound.
I've gone through and figured out that based on the convertible I just finished, it would take approx. 21,000.00 to restore the car to the same level I finished the convertible and my Hurst to ASSUMING I spend 10K on paint and bodywork. Total in the car would be around 46,000.00. Is it worth investing in the paint work?
Thanks to Lance, Heath, Chris, and Richard for coming by the other night.The input was welcome.
Originally sold Feb 7, 1970 to Riteway Electric in Chicago, Il. What a company car! It was built the 4th week of Jan so it didn't sit long, or was a special order car.
It keeps getting better from an originality standpoint. Was titled to the guy I bought it from in May 1989 with 93,700 miles on it, and it today has a little over 95,500. In addition to all the things mentioned above, looks to have all the original front end items (tie rods, center link, ball joints, bushings) in it, but somewhere along the line the idler arm was changed. Brake calipers, hoses, wheel cylinders, hardware, drums and rotors and lines with the exception of the rear dist block to wheel cylinder lines look original. Coil springs appear very tired, and someone put LONG AGO some Gabriel air shocks on it that have had the lines completely disintegrate.
Car has 15" 74-75 vintage SS111's on it with excellent GM trim rings (3 of the 4 with a good buffing could pass for NOS) and bezels. Center caps are lightly pitted, but the weirdest thing is the tires - F60-15 Goodyear RWL bias ply tires with the letters turned inward. I have never seen tires so dry rotted hold air - they must be from the early 80's.
Interior continues to amaze, I might be able to save the original carpeting with a good cleaning. Rally steering wheel is not oozing or scratched.
Original "grey" jack with hook is in the trunk.
Engine compartment has the original wiper motor with washer pump, master cylinder has the bleeds but do not know if it is original, however, it is leaking like it is the original. Booster looks to be the one with the car and still had a remnant of the "hanging" paper tag that goes on check valve.
Heath (Funkwagon455) got underneath and scraped on the rear axle tube until he found the code - SF (3.23 limited slip)
Not so good things:
Rust. Will need RH outer rear wheel well and possibly the LH as well, LH door, both rear quarter skins and LH front fender, or both if I want to havethe correct 70 fenders on it. Floors still look solid along with the trunk floor, but am not 100% sure that no repairs will be needed. A little bit around the rear window, fixable.
Wiper motor does not work
Radio lights up, but no sound.
I've gone through and figured out that based on the convertible I just finished, it would take approx. 21,000.00 to restore the car to the same level I finished the convertible and my Hurst to ASSUMING I spend 10K on paint and bodywork. Total in the car would be around 46,000.00. Is it worth investing in the paint work?
Thanks to Lance, Heath, Chris, and Richard for coming by the other night.The input was welcome.
Last edited by costpenn; November 21st, 2013 at 02:00 PM.
November 21st, 2013, 02:48 PM
#37
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 1,565
Geezzeeeee, Joe, sure wish I could have made it. Going back to W-O-R-K at CARQUEST is tearing me up for extracurricular activities! Perhaps you will have another Grand Splash sometime in the future. So glad for you. Yep, I don't have one either, and no plans to get one! LOL!
Aron
Aron
November 21st, 2013, 03:01 PM
#38
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chi-town
Posts: 4,511
I say it would be worth it but the real question is - worth it for what. For your enjoyment? Sure, to make immediate money off of it I'm not so sure. Latey I have seen these hardtops go at auction anywhere from 36k to close to 100k (that being a mint 4 speed)
Sounds like a great car with a known history and really cool that it came from my part of the country - I'm surprised you can see through the floorboards.
Sounds like a great car with a known history and really cool that it came from my part of the country - I'm surprised you can see through the floorboards.
November 21st, 2013, 03:33 PM
#39
I say it would be worth it but the real question is - worth it for what. For your enjoyment? Sure, to make immediate money off of it I'm not so sure. Latey I have seen these hardtops go at auction anywhere from 36k to close to 100k (that being a mint 4 speed)
Sounds like a great car with a known history and really cool that it came from my part of the country - I'm surprised you can see through the floorboards.
Sounds like a great car with a known history and really cool that it came from my part of the country - I'm surprised you can see through the floorboards.
The only reason I'm considering flipping it is because some people have said I might be able to get 35K with a very small investment (tires, wheels, cleaning and fixing the brakes) as it sits due to the complete, undisturbed, number matching nature of the car, but I really like that color, and don't think I'd find another comparable for what I'll have in it when I'm done.
One last cool thing in the engine compartment - it still had that weird cover/cap that goes on the terminal sticking out the side of the horn relay.
