jwedeen

79,000 miles

I have a 1962 Starfire that I am wanting to replace the lifters. At the same time I want to ask the forum how much it costs to rebuild a 394? Parts? Labor? Average time for shop to rebuild? What is a good reputable 394 rebuild kit?

Second question, if I just have the heads rebuilt will I most likely end up getting the piston rings replaced adding more labor costs?

Thanks JJ

Charlie Jones

Why are you wanting to replace the lifters? Noisy ?
A good compression test will tell you if it is even necessary to rebuild the engine .
If all the cylinders are at least 150 PSI and are at least 10 percent of one another , leave it alone , it doesn't need a rebuild .
If some cylinders are low , squirt an ounce or so of oil into them , and re-check compression .
If they come up considerably , then rings or even pistons may be needed.
If they stay much the same then the valves may need to be re-ground or replaced .

Try to stay away from Chinese made parts . They are often of inferior quality .
Most "kits " on the market are made up of Chinese or other offshore parts .
It is better to seek out " old stock" USA made parts . They are often offered on E- Bay and Hemmings Motor News and similar places .

jwedeen

I am considering replacing lifters because they make an intermittent ticking sound.

On the other hand I bought the car last February after finding out it sat for a very long time without being driven. I think if a engine just sits the gaskets inside deteriorate.

Another issue is the exhaust color is white and is really strong in odor. There is a liquid that drips out the pipes.

I plan to upgrade the Rochester to an EFI after the engine problems are fixed.

therobski

X2 Charlie Jones on his comments. Look up Lucas oil products, they have a variety of high quality products for these old motors. I would try some of these before I would spend the $$$$$ on an over haul.

redoldsman

If you pull the engine yourself and take it to a machine shop, I think you will be looking at $3,000 to $4,000 for a rebuild. I am just coming off the cuff here. Then you have to be sure to find a machinist that know the older Olds engines. Follow some of the good advice offered above before you commit to a total rebuild.

jwedeen

Thank you for your advice, how do I use a compression test gauge on a 394? Do I remove one spark plug and wire at a time? How long does the engine have to crank to get a reading?

Charlie Jones

Pull all eight spark plugs out . Mark the wires if you are afraid of mixing them up .
Disconnect one of the primary wires from the coil to dis-able it.
Block the throttle wide open . Usually 4 or 5 compression strokes will bring compression to it's highest level. Record the compression for each cylinder .

The cylinders are numbered from front to rear , driver side bank 1,3,5,7, passenger side bank 2,4,6,8 . The firing order is 1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2 . The distributor rotates counter-clockwise .

As advised above , an oil additive such as Lucas or Sea Foam may free up a stuck lifter. It also may be a good idea to check oil pressure with a guage . 35 Psi with the engine warmed up is the desired pressure.

jwedeen

Im going to test the compression. Can blocking the throttle wide open be accomplished by the gas pedal to the floor?

In regards to oil pressure, where is the sending unit located? Is that where you would hook up an oil pressure test gauge?

D. Yaros

In terms of parts/rebuild kits, I thought Egge Machinery handles them for the 394 engine? I know not whether Egge = Chinesesium?

Egge

mur59

you might want to check cooling system

Charlie Jones

Yes, you can have an assistant hold the throttle open and crank the engine with the key .

The oil pressure sender is located on the passenger side of the block behind the cylinder head and above the bellhousing . Yes, you would remove the sender and connect the pressure guage there .

If the car sat for more than a year there are several things you should pay attention to ;
1. Old gas , when gasoline sits for a long time in a tank , the lighter molecules will evaporate leaving behind a substance that is more like kerosine than gasoline . This is probably the cause of the white exhaust smoke and the strong odor .
The best solution is to drain the tank and re-fill it with fresh gas. If disposal of the old gas is a problem , then at least fill the tank with fresh gas and keep filling it until the old gas is gone. Also it wouldn't hurt to put a bottle of gas additive in , that contains isopropyl , to get rid of any water that may have condensed in the tank.

2. Change the oil and filter , if you haven't already ,

3. Change the transmission fluid . Use Dexron III / Mercon . Do not use synthetic fluid .

4. Replace the ignition points . Here again , avoid "chinesium" if possible .

5. Pull at least one wheel and brake drum and examine the wheel cylinder .
Pull the rubber boot back and examine the wheel cylinder piston for leakage or excessive crud or rust . If the condition is doubtful , rebuild or replace all the wheel cylinders and the master cylinder .

Finally , engine gaskets do not usually " dry out " or present any problem when sitting unused for a long time . However , carburator gaskets do . If the carb is not performing up to par , or is leaking , it may have to be rebuilt .

EFI systems are very expensive . Unless this car is going to be a daily driver , you are probably not ever going to get a return on your investment in fuel savings.

Charlie Jones

Egge claims that their pistons , at least , are made in California .
IMHO , although they are more expensive than most , they are probably the best choice of all the engine "kits " .

Tedd Thompson

Last time I talked to the machine shop guys that do my work they said figure $ 600.00 a hole if there is no major problems. And I don't know who's parts they use.

Just curious where are you finding a new EFI setup for a 394 these days? The only one I know about is the old Hildebrant and they were hard to setup for street use.... Tedd

Oldskeeper

I agree with Charlie on this. I have talked with a few people who instead of going EFI they are going with a throttle body system on their 394 from early 90's GM trucks. I haven't talked with them lately to follow up on how it worked out. Might be a better cost then changing over to an EFI system.
Steve

jwedeen

I will do some tests this weekend and report back with a diagnostics.

jwedeen

I purchased the FiTech EFI, it will fit a 4gc intake. From what I have read on other forums they have a built in self learning computer. The hard part is going to be drilling the exhaust for an O2 sensor, so I will have a muffler shop do that part. The fuel pump can be external near the tank or through a surge tank bolted in the engine compartment using the mechanical pump.
I looked into Mega Squirter but this made a lot more sense for my purpose.

jwedeen

Are you talking about the chevy 350 throttle body injector?

Oldskeeper

From what they told me yes, I haven't looked into it for myself as I like the carb setup on all my cars.I'm not familiar with the fiTech EFI system.

olds 307 and 403

The GM TBI fuel injection is set up for a tiny cam and has a lazy timing curve. It worked well in closed loop with the 204/214 cam and 20 degrees advanced. In open loop, especially as the temp dropped, no stalling, just not smooth running. This was a 94 set up on a 76 350 with 83 307 5A heads with a CCC 307 distributor in my 94 4x4.

dualquadpete

Olds Pontiac & Buick are about 3 times the expense to rebuild, compared to a SBC. When I had my 64 Catalina 2+2 w/ 389 it ran close to $ 4000 in parts & machine shop labour [ broken ring land on # 1 piston] & I assembled the engine!!!! Agree with others here, do your checking of engine condition before spending unneeded CASH!!!

jwedeen

Thanks, why are the Olds so much more to rebuild? Did Olds use higher quality parts?

Charlie Jones

X2 , forgot that !
If it sat for more than 2 years , It might be advisable to flush the cooling system and re-fill with new anti-freeze .

Charlie Jones

Parts , are the biggest reason . It has to do with production volume .
The more you make of any one part , the cheaper it becomes . For example , it may cost the manufacturer $1,000,000 to design and build tooling for a particular part . If they make a million of that part , the tooling and development cost on a part is $1.00 . If they make only 100,000 parts the cost would be $10. If they only make 10,000 it would be $100 .

Face it , Chevys are a lot more popular and there are many more of them around , than either Olds , Pontiac , or Buick . Therefore , their production volume of their parts is much higher.

And yes , I think Olds did use higher quality parts than others .
However , aftermarket parts are usually of the same quality whether they be for a Chevy , Ford , or Olds etc.
The higher price is mostly because of higher R&D and tooling costs .

Machine shop costs SHOULD be the same , except , as redoldsman said ," get a machinist that knows his way around early Olds engines " .
That guy may cost you more than " Joe on the corner ", That mostly works on Chevy, Ford , and Toyota engines.

Beers

I know this is an old thread, but does anyone know a good Oldsmobile Engine Rebuilder in the So Cal Area (1962 394 Engine)?
Thanks, Rich.