tcolt

Can anybody answer me some questions to help me decide? I don't plan to increase engine hp much over the stock 350. Maybe just a 4 barrel carb and headers and I don't plan on driving the Vista hard, but it still is a heavy car... I read that the 200R4 engine should be strong enough for hp up to 400hp, especially if I rebuild it with performance (Alto, etc.) parts. What do you guys think? The advantage is that a 200R4 is available with the BOP bolt pattern, so I wouldn't need an adapter plate (no big deal?)

The final gear ratio is similar for both transmissions and I don't mind the big ratio jump from 1st to 2nd with the 700R since I won't race it. Are there other major things I should consider? Which transmission will need less adapting for the cross member or changing the yoke or speedo drive or other parts? Are parts in general easier to find for the 700R than the 200R4?

Thanks, Tom

oldspackrat

Tom,
I don't remember all the details but I think the 200 has a few advantages over the 700. I have the 200 in my Vista with around 400 horses and a 410 posi. It has been strengthened in several areas and so far I have had no problems with it. I don't race it at the drag strip but I do beat on it on occasion.

joe_padavano

I'd certainly go with the 200-4R. First, in stock form both 200-4R and 700R4 need work to survive reliably. Second, the 200-4R bolts directly to an Olds block and uses the existing TH400 crossmember location. It also uses the existing TH350 driveshaft and yoke. The 700R4 requires a BOP adapter, a custom crossmember location, and a custom driveshaft length. Get the TV cable and carb bracket from a 307 car and it bolts to any Olds motor.

tcolt

Thanks Joe and Olds. It sounds like I'll go with the 200 also. What performance parts did you or your rebuilders use to rebuild the 200?
I doubt I'll find the coveted 86,87 Grand National or Chevy Monte Carlo versions with the special valve body, larger boost valve, etc. I've been checking on Craigslist for a core and it looks like the 200 -4R is already harder to get than the 700R4. I'm not even sure if all the hot mods are right for the build that I need on my workhorse Vista.Joe, why do the vendors for the detent cables say that the cable and bracket depends on what kind of carburetor I have on my Vista? And you also said any 307 cu.in. set-up will work on my 350 Olds? Also, what about the oil cooler lines that are on a 200 4R transmission? Can I plug them off until I eventually install an oil cooler on the Vista?

Thanks, Tom

joe_padavano

The brackets must match the carb bolt pattern since they are usually held with the same mounting bolts. The Qjet uses a different bolt pattern than a Holley or 4GC.

I'm not sure what you mean by "plugging" the cooler lines. The 200-4R MUST use a trans cooler - the larger the better. It will NOT function without one.

As for what parts to replace, I suggest you contact CKPerformance. They specialize in the 200-4R and have built many that live behind 9 second turbo Buick cars. They have developed specific upgraded replacement parts, including the hardened stator shaft and billet drums to fix known weak points in this trans. The 200-4R has been out of production since 1990, so that's why it may be tough to find a core. They were installed in just about every full size RWD GM wagon from 1981-1990, however.

Professur

For the detent bracket, they're talking if you've changed out the Q-jet for a Holley or something. Naturally their mechanisms aren't the same so the bracket has to suit. It's just a bit of sheetmetal, but you really need to get the detent cable right or the 200-4r doesn't survive long. The 307 was the common engine used in olds right up to '92 and isn't commonly desired so there are still loads in the boneyards untouched. I believe the cable and bracket from the bowtie 305 with the TH200c also works.

Fun71

You should already have a trans oil cooler in the radiator, so use that until you install an external trans cooler.

tcolt

Opps. Thanks. I didn't realize my TH375 already had an oil cooler, but it does. Prof. and Joe, as far as I know I have the stock carb. so I guess that means the 307 bracket and detent cable will fit off a 307 Olds Buick or Cadillac?

Professur

Off any q-jet you find that has a detent instead of a kickdown really. We say the 307 since they're the easiest to find unmolested.

bccan

You can reuse TH350 cooler lines on the 200-4R. They require tweaking @ trans end. Easier to make a stubby extension for the upper line & connect w/ a union as the angle & height of fittings is slightly different. Either way try to connect the upper just slightly loose before you raise trans to final height, it's tight once up in the tunnel, at least in "A" body.

Pay attention to line position as the inlet & outlet are opposite between 350 & 200.

tcolt

Thanks to all of you guys for this great info...

Maybe I'll understand it better once I have the transmission sitting next to my cruiser, but it sounds like you said that the cooler lines almost hook right up, but this article says they are exactly reversed and it seems like it's important which way they go together. This is from an article on the swap in Hemmings: "An important thing to note when swapping this transmission for the TH200-4R is the position of the cooler lines. The pressure line from the transmission cooler is on the bottom on a TH700R-4 and is on the top on a TH200-4R. "
So, do I have to cross over the lines before they reach my new transmission?

TexasT

Head on down to your local "recycler" and hit the Cadillac section. You are looking for a big Cadillac. You want one with nice red fluid. Next get under there and look for the tag on the passenger side. You want one with the AA code. go ahead and pick the carb brackets, tv cable, torque converter and dipstick and tube. Get any shift brackets as getting them later could become a problem. Even if you dont use the torque converter it will be good for a core and I doubt they will charge you for it as you are buying all the other stuff.
IMAG2650.jpg

Get with the local Buick guys and see where they get their 2004r assembled. There is a reason they use someone in particular, and you should use them too. Some place that builds "race" transmissions more than likely can not put together a 2004r that will last. The clearances set properly are very important and can NOT be ignored. Just because they do powerglides, th350 and ford C6 or mopar 727 and those owners think they are great does not equal a shop that can build a good 2004r.

The 2004r is an excellent choice. Once it is in and working you will be glad you chose it.
[IMG]https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/<a href=http://s444.photobucket.com/user/texastandgransport/media/Transmission/200%204r%20build/IMAG2650.jpg.html target=_blank>IMAG2650.jpg

tcolt

Thanks Tex

I went to two recently in SoCal and there were no 80s rear wheel drive Cadillac, Buick, Olds, etc. Only front wheel drives and 90s cars.... I'll keep looking.

Why do you like the AA over the Grand National and other "hot" 2004R? Because it is still easier to get or because it actually fits well for my application for some reason?

455olds442

Hey how's it going, I know this isn't the for sale section but thought it's relevant
I have a 200-4Runner built by art carr
Never been run, it was built about 10 years ago and the olds was
Taken apart. I was going to run the trans in my 69 442, decided
To go a different route
The trans, art carr torque converter and oil cooler are for sale

455olds442

Also have a brand new B&M Quick silver automatic shifter

grmchne78

If you were closer to Virginia, I have a 200R4 I took out of an 85 Cutlass (core), I have a NEW 2500 lockup converter that has never had fluid in it. I'll let both go for $150, but it appears we are on opposite coasts... Good luck in your search...

tcolt

No! I'm in Williamsburg right now, leaving for Charlotte this morning.

Tom

tcolt

Thanks. It sounds nice, maybe to rich for me? How much is it. You can call me (below) or email...

grmchne78

Hey it was nice meeting you both yesterday! I hope your drive back to Los Angeles is safe. Did you have any trouble getting to Charlotte? It can be tricky navigating through North Carolina, especially around Greensboro, it's easy to miss a turn. Did the transmission ride ok in the back of the Highlander?

TexasT

If you can score a bq, brf, tta, cz, cq code trans more power to ya. I know I can find the aa, the other fancy ones pretty much cost quite a bit more.
I know with the aa, larger boost valves and springs, some spring swapping in the vb and a decent converter you can put together a crisp shifting unit on a budget.
Id keep looking for an aa or one of the performance ones.

tcolt

It was great to meet you as well. Transmission and I made it home yesterday. It's already done 4000 plus miles before I even rebuilt it. Hope you had a fun camping trip.

Best, Tom

tcolt

I found out that the throttle bracket off a 307 engine will probably only work with Quadrajet carburettors. Is that true? The stock carb. on most 1972 Vista Cruisers was a 2 barrel Rochester carb, so now I am thinking of maybe upgrading to a 4 barrel carb before I swap the transmission. Obviously, I'm doing the transmission swap mostly to save gas, so is installing a 4 barrel carb. silly? I've heard that it would get about the same gas mileage as my 2 barrel as long as I don't step on it, but I'd have extra power if I need or want it. Is this true? What would be the best new or used carb to use that isn't too hard to find? Edelbrock? I'd love to find a stock Q-jet, but I hear they are a bear to set up unless they were already tuned to a 350 rocket engine?...

Thanks, Tom

joe_padavano

The 307s were only built with a Qjet, so yes the bracket will only fit a Qjet carb. Do not assume the 2bbl will give better mileage, however. The big advantage of the Qjet is the spreadbore design. The two primary bores are considerably smaller than the bores on the 2GC and the Qjet will likely give better mileage - WHEN DRIVEN THE SAME. Of course, the problem is keeping your right foot out of the two large secondary barrels.

Professur

It's like having a swear jar that automatically deducts the money from your wallet.

tcolt

I like it Joe

I might be putting my foot in my barrels here, but I think I have the will power....

If I don't at least it will be worth it :-)...

TexasT

X2 on the q-jet. I think it is an excellent carb but does require some effort to make it work. Plus you can get an aluminum manifold and shed some lbs off the front.

http://jakesperformance.com/site/0f6...etup_Info.html
Check out the Jake page and the tvmadeez.com
Look on the left at the tvmadeez
There is a column of links. Plenty of reading to do.

TexasT

A couple of pix to illustrate the arc the tv cable should be pulled in to get the required results.

tcolt

Thanks. Lots of great reading except that the Jake's link doesn't work.

The Bowtie link shows Q-jets 1901 to 1910. What model number would be the best for my low compression 350 and what cars did those come on? Were there many different intake manifolds too and is one better than the next for performance, besides aluminum vs. cast iron?...

Thanks, Tom

TexasT

The.link works for me, but I'm on my phone. Not sure what to say about that. Maybe hit jakesperformance.com and search around there for the tv cable info.

I would buy an edelbrock Aluminum intake for a spread bore carb and hit up eBay or some of your local people and see if they have a q-jet on the cheap to rebuild. Or there are individuals out there that do good work on q-jets in exchange for some scratch.

tcolt

Update on my 2004R rebuild and swap. I have all the parts and I'll start installing everything into the already cleaned and glass beaded housing this week.

Just one note for future 1972 Vista Cruiser swappers. The 2004R fits fine, but is about 6 inches shorter if you figure in the long tail housing on the TH375, which the 2004R doesn't use. That's why you'll need a drive shaft that is about 6 inches longer, center to center of the u-joints.

Does anyone know of an Olds or GM drive shaft that would work in a TH350/375 or 200 4R, that is 64" or longer, center to center? I'm trying to keep the cost for the new drive shaft down closer to $100, than $350.

Thanks, Tom