pogo69

I agree and i dont understand why a modererator has not informed the administrator...it seems they are are more concerned about editing random posts because of a couple of swear words rather then suspend the ability of a member to sell forged parts,and i believe this is not just here say. I have always been against ANY forged or altered part that has a part number and date

dnmfranco

I know you are the guy saw pics of your parts last night and aware of the others as well. Hence the reason I started the thread as I too was ripped off. Sam from the get go has been instrumental in basically unfolding all of this pretty much and has been solely the go to guy in discriminating parts -real from fake. Yes agreed Im sure more will come forward as time goes on.

dnmfranco

I know the moderator Eric or whatever kicks Josh off and here we have people getting screwed for 1000's of dollars

66-3X2 442

No I didn't contact him because I had no reason to believe Trick would do me that way. Ray has told me he in no way holds me responsible for this cluster. If I'm stuck in the middle,that's between Ray and I and then Trick and me.

pogo69

thats fine mike and i know your upset about this, i like to know as many details as possible when it comes to things like this that change hands and this is a pretty small community of cars like this

Stefano

Knowingly and willingly attempting to defraud someone over a certain dollar value is criminal and a Felony in most cases.

72xw30

Stefano,

What is the dollar value it needs to be over to be considered a felony?


Thanks,
Sam

Stefano

Each State has its own parameters, but usually has to be $200.00 or more and in some cases as high as $1,000.00, but this is cumulative of all parts and transactions with the individual.

If its between two states / interstate and involves Banks and wire transfers, then the Feds can get involved.

pogo69

I really dont think felony charges can be made here unless you have some legal contacts, even though a bunch of people have been screwed the seller can claim he was unaware and bought a bunch of parts in a lot and resold them...even if you have a lawyer in the family i dont think you will get far

Stefano

A contact dispute would make it a civil matter, not criminal. This type of issue can be both, civil and criminal.

Once a complaint is filed the Police would have an investigation and then decided whether or not to press charges, an arrest could happen faster than you might think.

dnmfranco

exactly, first phone call to Lake Erie Police Dept " Brian Trick sold me fake parts for Olds 70 W-30 "
officer - "huh, okay come down and fill out a report"

however just found out from Sam he has not been on here for months but Sam just told me he is ROP.
How could they not know has to be cross over within these two sites ???
He never paid back Sam in full so I wonder .......................

Stefano

This thread is difficult to follow.

I am not placing blame, guilt or stating that any one particular person did or didn't do something.

But, yes that is how it works. It starts with a single complaint and if there are others and a pattern of fraud and deception is established, then an arrest may be eminent.

Please understand that I am not an attorney nor a Law Enforcement Officer, just someone with over three decades business experience within this industry.

dnmfranco

not really difficult to follow and no one but yourself as of yet has mentioned such.

didn't see where anyone is attributing blame towards your way we are aware who the blame should be directed at

yes we all know how it works someone initiates a complaint

yes far as I know no one has mistaken a used car salesman for a lawyer or law enforcement at least I haven't

me and pogo were simply stating that "easier said than done"

72xw30

Please explain why this thread is difficult to follow?

To me it's easy - people got taken of thousands of dollars by paying for parts that they thought were legit BUt were fake! I personally, don't have $ to throw around like that! I think we all work to hard to throw money away by getting screwed!

Have a great day,

Sam

Stefano

Who is the person who faked-up / restamped the parts and who is the person who has been ripping people off by selling the parts. Is this all about one person or multiple individuals?

dnmfranco

one person w intent
other person bought carbs that were re-stamps but he did not know that

dnmfranco

sent you email that gave more insight to this hope it helps
Dean

66-3X2 442

Anybody who reads this thread can plainly see who the accused is. Hell,Stevie Wonder can see it.

dnmfranco

lol, Mike that was funny

NDERISE

there are many many of our fellow people that belong to this forum that are not aware of what is happening hear, I for one just read this post about 9 days ago. someone needs to flag this thread as a must read.


thanks ray

jensenracing77

I agree.

dnmfranco

well not sure what else I can do far as that but will try to get "flagged"
it has gotten a lot of views and was a hot topic for awhile

Mr Shifty Sidney

Ray,
Did you set up in the swap meet in Cincy?

Don W

NDERISE

yes I sure did

72xw30

The story continues.........

One of our fellow members on here was looking at purchasing a distributor for his 71 W30 and a carburator for his 70 W30.

He received a message from the "seller" stating that he had the parts. Again, no pictures posted on the site but a PM was sent about the parts. A follow up email was sent with the following pictures.
(Yup, the seller again had the right date coded W30 parts for what the buyer was looking for- how convenient is that!)

The buyer did end up purchasing the distributor BUT passed on the carburetor. The part numbers on the carb were very suspect as the stampings were different in the before and after pictures that were sent to him. He recently received a refund for the distributor.

0fac0d32252245d665281638576a4117_zps99c78fee.jpg
c6c04d4c6778c95eb981a8aa4e6bc511_zps837f3f02.jpg

b04d4831b3d0b870643bd396834bdfc4_zps1cae85de.jpg
aebdc27a46b42ba0afbb99eaf363f28d_zpscd753303.jpg

c7e483f5d1dcc3e14ad05d0ee7d07599_zps30dfd634.jpg
cc615564dfcefbea1efca2702f688855_zpsfbc03c2d.jpg

Do you see the difference??? Look at the before/after pictures of the carb!
As for the distributor - re-stamp too. Look at the familiar smooth surface. The dist. is being sent to the facility to be looked at a little closer. I will let you know the findings as soon as I know.

Still 6 months later, more and more people coming forward about receiving
"re-stamped" W parts.

Something to think about again, In the previous few months how many W parts have you seen for sale compared to the previous few years! I wonder why???

Cheers,

Sam

dnmfranco

Sam is this recent activity if so did the communication via email occur on here?

72xw30

Hey Dean,

The date of the conversation via email -
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 23:05:11 -0400
He received his refund for the distributor recently even though the transaction happened over a year and a half ago.

How many more ??

Sam

dnmfranco

okay well the differences in the carbs look pretty bad.

So is he still on ROP?

BlackGold

One question that must be asked of those who got burned is:
Did you specifically ask if the part you were buying was an original or a re-stamp?

While I don't like re-stamps, and I think that anyone who re-stamps without disclosing it is being sneaky at best, it's not really fraud. If someone asks for a 7040258 carburetor and the seller ships them a carburetor which functions like a 7040258 and has 7040258 stamped on it, the seller has fulfilled the order. Only if the buyer specifically asks for an original part which has not been re-stamped and the seller ships a re-stamp has fraud occured. Good luck convincing a law enforcement officer otherwise.

As always, buyer beware.

70cutty

Last post yesterday, if we are talking about the same person.

72xw30

I was one of the many that got burned! 1K for an OW tranny - which I stated I want an original but I got a restamp. Then I paid 1400 for an original TM code 70W30 rear end so I thought - again a restamp.

Every single person that I have communicated with have stated that they asked for an original W specific part -- NOT 1, again NOT 1 asked for a "restamped W part!" They wanted ORIGINAL like myself!

Sam

72xw30

I am also wondering now how many times the "seller" sent legit pictures of W parts via email and thhen later shipped a different part totally.

I only say this because of the before/after pictures above.

Sam

70cutty

It is a fraud if you are paying for an original.

dnmfranco

I agree w being forthright up front but unfortunately from the buyers in question here, this was not the case in all of 10 scenarios .... at least

I bought a 8255 thinking it was the real deal and it wasn't. Yes it did perform well, but I paid authentic money for a re-stamp.

I also agree yes good luck convincing law enforcement, I mean this is not diamond counterfeit here although just as criminal in my view.

dnmfranco

yes, which is why this thread came about. We were ripped off and yes does rhyme w Brian

pogo69

your kidding right?

paying 800 -1500 dollars for a 50 dollar part...restamping a more valuable number over a lesser value number...not really fraud?

allyolds68

For the uninformed can you please describe what makes the carb a restamp


I see an original and a restored carb.


I can say for sure I don't see the usual milled surface that would indicated that the carb has been altered. I see a lightly stamped 0 on both. I see a heavily stamped 9 on both. The alignment of the numbers looks the same on each. The pics are taken at different angles but I don't see anything glaring enough in these pics to say without a doubt that this is a restamp. I can't tell for sure if they are the same carb or not because the second one has obviously been restored.

dnmfranco

Mike I'm no pro either but look at 5 in the date code

Also I have had 3-4 carbs restored the integrity of the numbers has never been compromised by the restoration. I am not saying that has not happened to someone else by poor workmanship.

allyolds68

So they may not be the same carb.


I still don't see what makes either of these an obvious re-stamp. Did someone mic the surfaces to prove they're been milled? Are there specific internal alterations to these carbs to differentiate them from a standard q-jet or more likely something that has not been machined so it retains an original casting surface? I'm not passing judgment on anyone. I just want to know what makes these re-stamps. Without a milled surface I assume you'd have to have blank castings to recreate these.


As far as distributors go I think Octania mic'd a bunch of the OD's one time and when one was turned down it was glaringly obvious but not necessarily from the photos

dnmfranco

correct sometimes they take any carb and turn into what they want
For instance the 8255 I bought, it turned out that it started out as a chevy carb.

Usually they don't touch the internals from what I understand

for instance when BAPS came out w that initial line of re-pop w carbs, the internals were not done correctly to w specs.
So they performed poorly

Far as the milling aspect Sam is more versed on that