Feelings on making a 442 clone?

[jonstringer]

I have never been a fan of cloning, but here's the situation...

I have a 1972 Olds Cutlass S that is in great shape. No dents, no rust, perfect for a resto. The prior owner of this vehicle did a lot of work to it, and I believe he was attempting to make a '72 442 clone. He put in a 1970 455" w/ E heads, 1970 TH400, many performance parts, 442 spoiler, steering wheel, rear bumper, etc... Many 442 options. I basically need to add the ram air hood, 442 appropriate wheels, and a paint job complete with hood and side stripes, and I'm done.

The white vinyl buckets and rear bench are perfect. I'm thinking of painting it red with white stripes w/ the ram air hood.

1. Good move or bad move?
2. If I sell this car, will it be worth more as a 442 clone, or a modified Cutlass S?

*in a way it would be better than an actual numbers matching '72 442, because it would have a much better engine setup w/ tons more power.*

[Pghstarsky]

The real question is...is this what you want to do? Cause if you like it, just do it. And you're right, it'll be twice as bad ass cause you'll have way more power than a real 72 442.

[Pfiffle]

I don't know. All I see now are 442's, W-30's etc. It's come to the point now that I'm de-sensitized from it all. When I see a nice clean S or even a 4 door six cylinder, I'd rather look at them instead. Same with the other makes also (Chevy-SS, Dodge-R/T).

[Olds64]

Do whatever makes you happy. I think it is a mistake for muscle car owners to do something to their car in order to make it "worth more." A car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I know that is a cliche...

[Pghstarsky]

That's exactly what I'm talking about olds64.

[Jokers69]

This is my opinion only...
Don't take off the Cutlass badges and put the wrong ones on there.. a tricked out Cutlass is much nicer then a cookie cutter wannabe clone.

[Eddie Hansen]

well I had similar thoughts, I have a 69 cutlass S convertible w/ 4 speed, 350 2 barrel, I have purchased a 455, w/ c heads etc, my thought was to redo it like a 69 hurst olds convertible, as there were only 3 or 4 made, and i don't believe any 4 speeds, i don't think anybody is going to be fooled anyway, I also thought of doing it in black and gold just in case, but unsure.. at the end of the day i am not doing it for resale, just because i love the look of the hurst olds, I have a gold interior... and would leave that, and the top I would have done in gold as well, just becuase I think it will look beter, I guess they call them tributes but I do see what the guys are saying, I looked at GTO's yesterday on fleabay, I would say 50% were clones, tributes etc... and somehow that made them cheap in my mind.. so now I am thinking make the clone but leave the original emblems? I dunno so confused....

[tmcfall]

My Opinion....I am refurbishing my 70 S and leaving it an S. But, not numbers matching resto. Its going to be a fun car...hot 455, chrome wheels, tubular control arms, big rear tires. Then I can "drive it like its stolen"!....GRIN

[Jokers69]

A Lemans with GTO badges or a Cutlass with 442 badges is just that.. it's like sticking a potato in your pants to make the girls think you have something you don't..

I mean could somebody with a misrepesented car at a cruise night say thanks to somebody who said "hey nice 442", I know I couldn't. I'd rather say thanks to the guy who says "hey, bitchin Cutlass man, you don't see many around"

[jonstringer]

So now I don't know what to do with this potato... You're saying, take it out, and go all natural? ha ha! The girls will be so disappointed.

[Pfiffle]

I kinda like what tmcfall is doing. My 76 Cutlass S is going in that same direction.
Tom

[Eddie Hansen]

Originally Posted by Jokers69

.. it's like sticking a potato in your pants to make the girls think you have something you don't..

A Potato???????????????????? man I can see it now

IT IS ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!



man your damn funny... and BTW very valid points...

[rocketraider]

As long as you don't try to pass it off as the real thing, do what you want.

I have a REAL problem with people who clone a car with intent of misrepresenting and selling it for genuine article money.

I also have a problem with ebay sellers who bleat all the right keywords to make the stupid money appear, to the point I've become dismissive toward the whole musclecar genre. Big money, overinflated egos and the automotive equivalent of social climbing have really turned me off the last few years.

There are a few particularly egregious sellers who trumpet "This is what the Nationals judges are looking for!" "Only for high point show cars!"

Bullcaca. I've judged OCA and AACA for many years and I've never known any judge to look for some of the trinkets they're using that line on, trying to jack up the price.

[Edveen]

I wouldn't take the extra step and make it a 100% 442 clone. But I would keep the spoiler, bumper, etc.. thats already on there, because I think its great as is! A cutlass with 442 appearance minus the 442 paint and wheels is really nice in my opinion! Especially those cutlass badges, people probably look and say "Its a cutlass!?!?" Now thats good stuff.

Ed

[Pfiffle]

Yeah, I've found myself drifting away from the "traditional" muscle cars for the reasons above. But it's a good thing. It made me discover other types, like 50's cars and full sized cars, even 30's and 40's cars that I never looked at years ago. Made me expand my mind and I'm glad.
Tom

[Jokers69]

Originally Posted by Eddie Hansen

A Potato???????????????????? man I can see it now

IT IS ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!



man your damn funny... and BTW very valid points...

Funny stuff, my wife and I are going to NYC to see Young Frankenstein oin Broadway next week..

OK.. hijack over, now back to our regularly scheduled program..

Jack it up, put some Crager SS wheels, dual exaust with loud mufflers and drive the hell out of it thats what I say, bring back the 70's style. And while were at it hippie vans rule!

[J-(Chicago)]

Originally Posted by Jokers69

while were at it hippie vans rule!

Lol yeah especially if you engine brake with them on a big hill and bust the crankshaft into 3 pieces.

[Rallye469]

I also thought of doing it in black and gold just in case,

I wouldn't do a '69 in black & gold...only because they made a '70 Hurst in black & gold. But the clone convertible I'd be fine with...


With that said...what about the other way around.
Do I owe it to someone to keep my Rallye 350 yellow???
I've had a hard time with this one...
But I'm not sure I'll paint it yellow. I'm not sure I'll keep the stripe package either...
One option is to paint it silver or white(which I like a lot more) and use the rallye stripes.
Kinda like the Apollo White GSX...which I like more then the yellow.

Opinions?

[Jokers69]

Originally Posted by Rallye469

I wouldn't do a '69 in black & gold...only because they made a '70 Hurst in black & gold. But the clone convertible I'd be fine with...


With that said...what about the other way around.
Do I owe it to someone to keep my Rallye 350 yellow???
I've had a hard time with this one...
But I'm not sure I'll paint it yellow. I'm not sure I'll keep the stripe package either...
One option is to paint it silver or white(which I like a lot more) and use the rallye stripes.
Kinda like the Apollo White GSX...which I like more then the yellow.

Opinions?

Go for it..

[Jokers69]

Originally Posted by J-(Chicago)

Lol yeah especially if you engine brake with them on a big hill and bust the crankshaft into 3 pieces.

did ya spill the bong?

[scott_442]

If you do clone it, just be prepared for the 'know it all's' that seem to be at every show that are going to make a point of letting you know and everybody else within hearing distance that they know the car is a clone

[jonstringer]

I'm liking the idea of going forth with the hood, paint, wheels, etc options, but keeping the Cutlass S emblems. Technically, those options could have been ordered factory on a cutlass S. If you wanted a spoiler, no problem, steering wheel, ok, 442 hood, you got it. I honestly just want this car to be the best looking 72 Olds cutlass S that it can be, and some of these mods will really boost it's already stellar appearance.

It will be a head turner no matter what.

Side note, IMHO, the '71-'72 cutlass/442 olds cars are the best looking A-bodies offered by GM in those years. The chevelle has a great rear but the front is lame, the GTO is a complete failure, and the GS/skylarks are so so. The '71-'72 cutlass s/442 are a sexy, shapely, muscular, and deadly styled vehicles. Lucky for us, I guess.

[Eddie Hansen]

Jon gotta disagree on the goat the 68-69 goat ( I had a 69 convertible ) were awesome looking, I love hideaways...

and the 71 gto was very cool too, I even like the honeycombs....

back to olds..

the rallye 350 was cool and was an asnswer to insurance costs, now it might be an answer to fuel costs LOL... I liked them and the endura bumpers, I too don't like the yellow that much... there was a guy selling a rear bumper on ebay awhile back, I think he actually scrapped all the rubber off! man...

ya know you could probably have some great professional vinyl graphics made that said "w-machine" sort of like the hurst equipped badges, now they are only made in plastic.... but if the cutlass s bothered you some, might be a way to go, I know debadged cars are very popular in europe why put anything on it??? might be another way to go...

[Jokers69]

Originally Posted by jonstringer

I'm liking the idea of going forth with the hood, paint, wheels, etc options, but keeping the Cutlass S emblems. Technically, those options could have been ordered factory on a cutlass S. If you wanted a spoiler, no problem, steering wheel, ok, 442 hood, you got it. I honestly just want this car to be the best looking 72 Olds cutlass S that it can be, and some of these mods will really boost it's already stellar appearance.

It will be a head turner no matter what.

Side note, IMHO, the '71-'72 cutlass/442 olds cars are the best looking A-bodies offered by GM in those years. The chevelle has a great rear but the front is lame, the GTO is a complete failure, and the GS/skylarks are so so. The '71-'72 cutlass s/442 are a sexy, shapely, muscular, and deadly styled vehicles. Lucky for us, I guess.

What a great statement.. I'ts a Cutlass, let it be proud!

[J-(Chicago)]

Originally Posted by Eddie Hansen

debadged cars are very popular in europe

And at my house too! If people don't know what it is, than they can't cop my style.

[jonstringer]

Originally Posted by Eddie Hansen

Jon gotta disagree on the goat the 68-69 goat ( I had a 69 convertible ) were awesome looking, I love hideaways...

and the 71 gto was very cool too, I even like the honeycombs....

I agree with you, the 68-69 GTOs are gorgeous. No argument there. I was only commenting on GM A-body vehicles in 1971-1972. Within those years the Cutlass S/ 442 cars look the best IMO. Almost all A-bodies from 68-70 looked amazing.

Sorry for going off of my own topic. Carry on.

[Edveen]

Originally Posted by jonstringer

I'm liking the idea of going forth with the hood, paint, wheels, etc options, but keeping the Cutlass S emblems. Technically, those options could have been ordered factory on a cutlass S. If you wanted a spoiler, no problem, steering wheel, ok, 442 hood, you got it. I honestly just want this car to be the best looking 72 Olds cutlass S that it can be, and some of these mods will really boost it's already stellar appearance.

It will be a head turner no matter what.

I concur!
Now your not talking "442 clone" anymore! It will definately be one sweet looking cutlass when your done with it! It will be a shweet looking cutlass with a hammer in there! Now if it had a rebuilt '72 bbo in there, that would be the icing on the cake in my opinion. But thats just my taste. The thing I dislike most about my 69, is that it has an engine from 70.

Ed

[FL1970442]

Good point!!

[Oldsguy]

Originally Posted by jonstringer

So now I don't know what to do with this potato... You're saying, take it out, and go all natural? ha ha! The girls will be so disappointed.

A joke;
the kid noticed all the attention the stud was getting at the beach so he couldn't resist. He asked the stud what he does, the reply; "I put a potato in my shorts, works great". The next weekend the kid tries it and all he gets are jeers, laughs, and terrible looks from everyone. Then the stud comes up and tells him "hey kid, put it in the FRONT of you shorts."!!!!!

[Olds64]

[Run to Rund]

Some years, the 442 was its own series. In 1972, the engine was in the VIN, but the 442 was an option. Back in 1966, the 442 was an option on any F85 or Cutlass. What you are doing is owner-installing an option/s. Is a car a power steering clone because you install it? Is it a radio clone car? Yet some look on the 442 option as the total identity of the car, whereas wheels, paint color, etc. are open to change without any loss of "status." I feel that so long as you don't represent it as factory-installed, it is fine to owner-install options, or remove them.

[#1CutlassSupreme]

I've got a 72' cutlass Supreme that I'm building to W-31 specs. I really like the 72' 442 grille, spoiler, and mirror options so I'm adding those too. If you're looking for ROI then an old Vette or possibly 50's Chevy might be where to put your money. If you're looking for self indulgence and high HP fun on the weekends, then muscle cars are the toys to have.

I'm proud to drive a Cutlass Supreme and want to keep the original emblems so that people know that Olds was once a top dog on the auto world. I would rather have the best looking Cutlass Supreme, than the best looking "clone." No over compensating, no potatoes...just a guy proud of his work.

My dad has a 442 with a monster 455. I coulda dropped one my car, but I wanna give that elephant engine a run for it's money with little 350. I'm strapping on a Ram-air hood, OAI kit, forged HC pistons, cam upgrade, 650 cfm carb, and Edelbrock intake. And when I take it out to the cruise ins I'll be just fine when someone says, "Nice Cutlass."

[Jolly Green]

Do with it what you want to. If you like the way something looks on your car, put it on. Its your car. I thought customization and making a car your own were what the car culture was all about. People mix and match all the time. I'd say just leave the cutlass badging on there. Or debadge it totally if you're that worried.