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Old March 18th, 2012, 11:55 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Question bleeding brakes procedure 67 Cutlas Supreme

Would someone please send a link for the order in which to bleed brakes (front ,back,left right) 1967 Cutlas Supreme. Thanks
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Old March 18th, 2012, 12:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Just like any car: far to near.

Right rear --> Left rear --> Right front --> Left front.

- Eric

ps: most of the time it doesn't matter anyway.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 06:29 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Bleeding screw

MD
Appreciate your wisdom here.
The bleeding screw above each wheel (67 cutlass) suggest that it (while draining the fluid) will run all over,and around with no respect to direction.In other words it looks if I release the brake stem ,there is no logical direction for the brake fluid to flow.All over the place?
around the inner and outer brake parts.What are your thoughts. And what would be your course of action.I don't want to have a local shop bleed the brakes at my expense if I can do it.

Last edited by MudEye; March 19th, 2012 at 06:39 PM.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 06:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I am confused a little.... the bleeder screw is at the back of each backing plate and is horizontal. It seems like you will be doing this with the car turned upside down? Cant see how the conv top will get brake fluid on it otherwise...
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Old March 19th, 2012, 06:38 PM   #5 (permalink)
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brake bleeding

You could always run a vacuum line into a bottle to collect the brake fluid. You could use a vacuum brake bleeder, but you would still need to manually bleed. Don't worry about the blacktop. Brake fluid is water soluable. rinse it down with a hose.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 06:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I am confused a little.... the bleeder screw is at the back of each backing plate and is horizontal. It seems like you will be doing this with the car turned upside down? Cant see how the conv top will get brake fluid on it otherwise...
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Old March 19th, 2012, 06:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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When I was young, I used to bleed the brakes in the gravel driveway without a second thought - the fluid would go all over the tire, the backing plate, the rear end, and drip down onto the ground - so what?

Now that I'm older and more "detail-oriented," I generally use one of those "one man bleeders" - basically a cup with a tube and a rubber fitting that goes over the bleeder (about $5-8) - to catch the fluid so I don't make quite as much as a mess .

It's really not that important, though, on a non-restored, non-fancy car.

- Eric
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Old March 19th, 2012, 06:50 PM   #8 (permalink)
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This is actually what I don't know .,It seems that the bleeding screw is above the whole brake assembly.(I am most likely wrong)
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Old March 19th, 2012, 06:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDchanic View Post
When I was young, I used to bleed the brakes in the gravel driveway without a second thought - the fluid would go all over the tire, the backing plate, the rear end, and drip down onto the ground - so what?

Now that I'm older and more "detail-oriented," I generally use one of those "one man bleeders" - basically a cup with a tube and a rubber fitting that goes over the bleeder (about $5-8) - to catch the fluid so I don't make quite as much as a mess .

It's really not that important, though, on a non-restored, non-fancy car.

- Eric
Eric
I guess may main issue is this: I think I know where the bleeder screw is.But If It looks as if it is above the whole brake assembly.So If I bleed it ,It will drain brake fluid all over the place. Your responnse
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Old March 19th, 2012, 08:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
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This is actually what I don't know .,It seems that the bleeding screw is above the whole brake assembly.(I am most likely wrong)
No, you're right.

The bleeder is for removing air, and air is less dense than brake fluid, so it rises to the top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MudEye View Post
I guess may main issue is this: I think I know where the bleeder screw is.But If It looks as if it is above the whole brake assembly.So If I bleed it ,It will drain brake fluid all over the place.
Yes, it will drip down all over the place. Unless you use a hose to direct it.

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Old March 20th, 2012, 09:34 AM   #11 (permalink)
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OK, for any car with a dual circuit master cylinder, it DOES NOT MATTER which end of the car you do first. The two circuits are independent. Just be sure that you do not press so hard on the pedal that you push the differential pressure switch piston too far one way, causing it to get stuck with the BRAKE light on.
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Old March 21st, 2012, 07:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Non Fancy Car?

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Originally Posted by MudEye View Post
Eric
I guess may main issue is this: I think I know where the bleeder screw is.But If It looks as if it is above the whole brake assembly.So If I bleed it ,It will drain brake fluid all over the place. Your responnse
What? Are you saying this is a non fancy car? He He
The main rub.What are you using to bleed your brakes now (classic)
Hose? Drain to pavement? What are your thoughts on the new technology on bleeding brakes.I've heard they all suck.But want to hear your thoughts
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Old March 21st, 2012, 07:35 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I usually use a "one man bleeder" cup like this:

Click the image to open in full size.

or like this:

Click the image to open in full size.

I will allow the brakes to "gravity bleed" if I possibly can, and have gotten good results with just these types of bleeders, but if at all possible I will corral a family member for a final "two man" bleeding, just to be sure.

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Old March 21st, 2012, 10:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_padavano View Post
OK, for any car with a dual circuit master cylinder, it DOES NOT MATTER which end of the car you do first. The two circuits are independent. Just be sure that you do not press so hard on the pedal that you push the differential pressure switch piston too far one way, causing it to get stuck with the BRAKE light on.
For those that may not know:

It doesn't matter where you start on a routine bleed but if you service the back brakes like I did last week (changed EVERYTHING) you will be best served to bleed the back first. It gives some resistance to the differential pressure piston so that it doesn't get stuck in the rear block off position.

If you don't start at the back, you run a high risk of isolating the back brakes, in which case you will NEVER be able to bleed the back brakes unless you reset the plunger. In my case, I had to remove the combination valve and disassemble it to manually reset the plunger. Extreme PIA if you haven't done it...
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Old April 17th, 2012, 05:38 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ah64pilot View Post
For those that may not know:

It doesn't matter where you start on a routine bleed but if you service the back brakes like I did last week (changed EVERYTHING) you will be best served to bleed the back first. It gives some resistance to the differential pressure piston so that it doesn't get stuck in the rear block off position.

If you don't start at the back, you run a high risk of isolating the back brakes, in which case you will NEVER be able to bleed the back brakes unless you reset the plunger. In my case, I had to remove the combination valve and disassemble it to manually reset the plunger. Extreme PIA if you haven't done it...
Pilot
When you said you changed "everything" What exactly did you change?
Shoes,wheel cylinders,drums?,etc. I was curious because I was just going to bleed the brakes and be done with it.I see no leaky cylinders,but the brakes go all the way to the floor and the red light comes on (lower left dash on driver side.)
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Old April 17th, 2012, 05:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ah64pilot View Post
For those that may not know:

It doesn't matter where you start on a routine bleed but if you service the back brakes like I did last week (changed EVERYTHING) you will be best served to bleed the back first. It gives some resistance to the differential pressure piston so that it doesn't get stuck in the rear block off position.

If you don't start at the back, you run a high risk of isolating the back brakes, in which case you will NEVER be able to bleed the back brakes unless you reset the plunger. In my case, I had to remove the combination valve and disassemble it to manually reset the plunger. Extreme PIA if you haven't done it...
Yes, it is definitely possible to "stick" the differential pressure switch plunger if you press too hard with fluid only in one side of the system, but it is possible to stick it in either direction. The risk is also much higher with an older car that might have rust or sludge in the distribution block or combo valve, particularly if you have a cast iron combo valve. The trick is to gravity bleed the brakes first - open the bleeder screws and let fluid run down the lines from the M/C. This may not always work, depending on the twists and turns in the lines.

I avoid the problem completely by using a vacuum bleeder - the kind that use compressed shop air through a venturi to create suction to draw the fluid out of the bleeder. I find this works MUCH better than the hand-pump MightyVac style vacuum bleeders.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 07:04 PM   #17 (permalink)
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There is a good thread on the HAMB about how to make a brake bleeder from an old oil pump. You add a tube to the pickup tube that will stick down in the bottle of brake fluid, make a plate to cover the output side of the pump with a hose attached to it that will fit the bleeder screw and a handle to turn the shaft side of the pump. connect it up and open the bleeder screw on the opposed side and pump fluid into the lines from the bottle. When that side is full, close that screw and open another one on the opposite end of the car. Fill that side and close the screw, open the other one and turn the pump again to fill that line. No bleeding the master cylinder because it will pump fluid from the lines into the master also. I made one from an olds pump but haven't tried it yet. Remember an olds pump turns counter clockwise. Do not use a drill to spin the pump or you will have fluid all over the place. Don't ask how I know.
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Old July 21st, 2012, 06:36 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Bled brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDchanic View Post
I usually use a "one man bleeder" cup like this:

Click the image to open in full size.

or like this:

Hey Dr. So I started at back r (2 people) Some fluid came out but not strong.Back left...Nothing...Dry as as a bone.Front r shot like a cannon.Front left almost as strong.I repeated the process twice and the same.Nothing out of the back left.Not even a drop. The red light on left side of dash is still "red" and there was no marked improvement on the pedal. I appreciate your comments. MudEye

I will allow the brakes to "gravity bleed" if I possibly can, and have gotten good results with just these types of bleeders, but if at all possible I will corral a family member for a final "two man" bleeding, just to be sure.

- Eric
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Old July 21st, 2012, 07:41 PM   #19 (permalink)
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When you say that you repeated it "twice," what, exactly do you mean?

When I bleed brakes, I generally have my assistant "pump'emup!" with about ten full pumps of the pedal, then open the bleeder, then have him "pump'emup!"again and again, for a total of about a dozen times before I'm satisfied.

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Old July 21st, 2012, 08:37 PM   #20 (permalink)
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There' s 2 valves you can open, one's probably the correct way and other is something else but I've always bled brakes starting farthest away from the master cylinder, and if i can't get the smaller usually size 10mm bleed valve to open i use the bigger 5/8 - 3/4inch bolt near the bottom, though i've only done this on cars with disc brakes, i think it's the same with drums though as far as bleeding goes.

yes brake fluid will go everywhere and you do not want to run the master cylinder dry or you'll be bleeding all over again.
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Old July 21st, 2012, 08:54 PM   #21 (permalink)
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There' s 2 valves you can open... if i can't get the smaller usually size 10mm bleed valve to open i use the bigger 5/8 - 3/4inch bolt near the bottom...
No. You always bleed the brakes from the highest point available, and brake systems are designed to have bleeders at their highest points.
Bleeding them from any other fitting is incorrect, and could, theoretically (and in our lawsuit-obsessed country, legally) lead to accidents, death, dismemberment, and general mayhem.

Why? Because the air is less dense than the brake fluid, and rises to the top.
If you bleed from below that, you will leave an air bubble, which will cause improper brake function.

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Old July 21st, 2012, 09:05 PM   #22 (permalink)
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mdchanic! thank you so much for that info. I've only had to use the lower valve once, and on the front driver's side. i must have got lucky because the truck is fine and no brake issues for 1 year now, knocks on wood. THIS IS IMPORTANT INFO GUYS!
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Old July 21st, 2012, 10:09 PM   #23 (permalink)
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There was recently a couple guys having problems bleeding the front calipers - until they figured out they were on the wrong sides, and the bleeders were at the bottom!

Sounds like the prop valve is stuck - now the fun begins.
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 09:37 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I was always taught to bleed the master cylinder first, then to start bleeding at the wheel cylinder farthest from the m/c. Though as Joe P states with a dual circuit brake system it probably makes no difference where you start.

If you're not seeing any obvious leaks at the wheel cylinders, I think your master cylinder is shot. When you press the pedal and it goes to to the floor, the m/c piston cups are bypassing enough fluid to where you're not compressing it to send to the wheel cylinders. There's just enough hydraulic pressure to fool the combination valve into thinking there's a leak (low pressure in one side of the system) and activating the warning light.

If you have a length of appropriate-size clear tubing and a glass jar, you can easily make a bleeder setup similar to the one-man bleeder Eric shows and eliminate most if not all of the mess. Put a couple ounces of brake fluid in the jar, then loosen the bleeder screw and put the tube on it. Then submerge the other end of the tube in the fluid in the jar- this is to ensure that when you release the brake pedal it doesn't suck air back into the hydraulic lines. Crack the bleeder screw open enough to allow good flow. Then mash the brake pedal to expel old fluid and air into the jar. Continue until you have a solid stream of clean, clear brake fluid going into the jar. You may have to empty it a couple times. If you do, you can either close the bleeder screw or leave it open to continue gravity bleeding, while you dump the cruddy fluid. And odds are it will be nasty brown.

Move around the car and continue bleeding process, making sure the master cylinder does not run out of fluid or you'll be back at square one.

It's better to bench bleed a master cylinder before installing it, but it can be done on the car. Eric's pic of the made in Taiwan jar shows two pointed nipples and two short pieces of tubing. Put the tubes on the nipples, then disconnect the brake lines from the m/c. Put the pointy ends into the brake line holes and route the tubes back to the reservoir, submerging them in clean brake fluid (the bail is handy for holding them in place). Mash the pedal lightly a few times and watch the air bubbles and crud go back into the reservoir. Once you see no more air bubbles, connect the brake lines back to the m/c and continue bleeding at each wheel.
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Last edited by rocketraider; July 22nd, 2012 at 09:44 AM.
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 05:50 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I must be crazy

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When you say that you repeated it "twice," what, exactly do you mean?

When I bleed brakes, I generally have my assistant "pump'emup!" with about ten full pumps of the pedal, then open the bleeder, then have him "pump'emup!"again and again, for a total of about a dozen times before I'm satisfied.

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Eric
I had my son pump he brakes 5-7 times.And I said "hold it" I released the valve screw,fluid ran out.He said the pedal went down.I then tightened it.And Did that 3 times.I did not however do as You suggested and have Him pump it many more times while the bleeding screw was open.This is where I claim ignorance.
So after It's pumped 10 times,I release the valve,It's then pumped 4-5 times more? Then He holds the pedal to the floor,then I tighten?
Golly,Sorry if I'm that bad! But the poor job that rendered no fluid at all out of the left rear. One more vulnerable question.When you say right rear.Is it right facing the rear? Or the front? And Please pardon my ignorance.I just want to drive my OLDSMOBILE!
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 06:48 PM   #26 (permalink)
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No, no. Have him pump a bunch of times and hold the pedal down, then release the bleeder, until the flow starts to decrease (probably to a second), then close it, and tell him to pump it up again.

Repeat this about a dozen times (probably).

Right is always the US passenger side (UK / OZ / Japan driver's side).

- Eric
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 06:48 PM
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