Allan R

I've been wondering for some time now about just how many of the 1972 Cutlass/442/CS/VC have actually survived till now. This is really important since the world is going to end this year and we need an accurate estimate of how many parking stalls to order in Heaven, Purgatory and Hell. Construction never ends, does it?

My car was built in Lansing. According to official GM records, it was one of 8,161 that were produced in 1972 for the Canadian market. Now since the Cutlass S was one of the more popular production in 72, it would be reasonable to assume it should have the highest survival rate. Same thing would apply to the US, but I don't know how many cars were produced at all the plants or what total production was those years for the Cutlass Lineup. If you factor in f85s, Cutlass and Cutlass Supreme and then distribute them across the dealer network, they were actually spread out fairly thin IMO.

What I'm wondering: Does anyone have a good way to determine what % of 72 Cutlass production has survived the test of time? There just don't seem to be as many of them listed on the web as there used to be....Just on a whim, based on how many I see at shows or advertised for sale, I'm guessing that us 72 owners have less than 5% of actual production left as rolling stock. Amazingly, the repop market is seeing value in that and producing parts. I'm also guessing that during the 'cash for clunkers' program a lot of nice cars, including 72 Olds's have been reincarnated as new sheet metal for new cars.

Sifting through the web, I can't find a good way of determining how many 72 Cutlass line would be expected to celebrate their 40th birthday. I know of several here in Canada that will.

Anyone?

w-30dreamin

Interesting question,I'll be watching to see what kind of replies you receive.

I'll need a temporary parking spot in Purgatory,I shouldn't be there long though,so maybe I'll sit on the side with my 4 way flashers going...will need permanent spot in Heaven. Unsure if I'll need a handicap spot.

2blu442

Allen, I don't have an answer to your question but can say that I've personally seen two 1972 Cutlass S and one 1972 442 being parted out. I was thinking about this a while back in regards to the 1965 442. I know of 8 of those that have gone to the crusher here in the Medford area. John

Lady72nRob71

The c4c program here in the states did not allow cars that were over 25 years old or so... That was a good thing for the 70's cars.

sammy

The only info i have read concerning this was in some Porche literature, where the author claimed that ANY model of car built between 1970 and 1973 ,90 percent of them are gone-From this premise using total cars of your model vs your cars serial number youcan get a ROUGH estimate-thats all i have ever come across-ted

Bunser

Try contacting Kurt [wmachines?] He is a wealth of information.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Second Cutlass 'S' Survivor right here!

So for Canada, the count is now up to 2

11971four4two

Total 1972 Oldsmobile production was only 758,711

jaunty75

No information like this exists in any formal or even semi-formal way. No records are kept by any government agency. There would be no way to do this as vehicles end up disappearing for all kinds of reasons all over the country and world, and no one systematically notes when a particular vehicle is crushed or taken off the road for any reason and keeps a record of what make, model, and year it was, what options it had, etc., and notes this in some central database.

You can only go by statistics. Statistically-speaking, based on information available from various insurance company and government agency websites, about 1% of any vehicle's initial production is still on the road 25 years later. This is very general and applies across all types of vehicles. Obviously, as you state, some kinds of cars, especially more popular ones like convertibles and coupes, were kept in greater numbers than vehicles that were seen as less keep-able, like station wagons and four-doors.

If 8,161 examples of your car were built for the Canadian market in 1972, then you might reasonably expect about 80 of them to still be on the road today. But that number is probably plus or minus a factor of two or three. So that might mean that there are anywhere from maybe 40 to 50 to as many as several hundred still around. But I'm guessing that that's maybe about as high as it would go. I would not expect there to still be, say, 500 still on the road.

Allan R

And we're on a roll.... don't forget oldzy and some of the others around GTO. I also know there's cars that will be at our RRU in July that I'll be counting. I don't think the numbers are all that high though.

Do you have any further breakdown on that? eg: in 1971 model year, the total Olds production was 559578. Of that 264091 were f-85/Cutlass. I have this from the commemorative edition of Oldsmobile - The first Seventy-Five Years. But they don't have info for the 72 year.

Hmmm, 1% after 25 years.... Now we're at 40 years which is 15 years later. I'm going to guess that the number on the road stays relatively constant but with a slight decline. So I'll suggest that even if there were a couple hundred on the road, they would be likely spread out over the entire country. That would also explain why we don't see so many Olds at car shows. They just don't exist in large numbers anymore.

jaunty75

From Setting the Pace, 1972 Olds A-body production was as follows:

F-85 town sedan: 3,792
Cutlass town sedan: 38,893
Cutlass hardtop coupe: 37,790
Cutlass 2-seat Cruiser station wagon: 7,979
Cutlass S sports coupe: 4,141
Cutlass S hardtop coupe: 78,461
Cutlass Supreme hardtop sedan: 14,995
Cutlass Supreme hardtop coupe: 105,087
Cutlass Supreme convertible: 11,571
Vista Cruiser 2-seat wagon: 10,573
Vista Cruiser 3-seat wagon: 21,340




Exactly. The number tends to level out as the cars that are kept are usually being kept on purpose by collectors or just didn't see heavy use and are perhaps in parts of the country where cars last longer.

sammy

the older cars in my little collection I sadly ,do not tend to drive as much as the "newer" ones

11971four4two

Allan

I have a copy of a letter from Oldsmobile that states the total production for 1972 Oldsmobiles 758,711 , of that number 77 cutlass supreme hardtop coupes and 66 supreme convertibles were ordered with (L75) 455 and m20 four speed. No other breakdown in the production numbers is shown in this letter.

jaunty75

That's a cool letter. It's from Helen Earley who died a few years ago and who for a long time ran the Olds History Center in Lansing. She was known as "The First Lady of Oldsmobile."

Interesting that she would have that statistic because, if you wrote to her for information about your Olds, and your Olds was a pre-1977 Olds, the usual answer was the information like this wasn't available.

J-(Chicago)

Sometimes it seems to me being on here all the time, that they grow like dandelions. Everyone seems to have one.

But then I remember, that this site only has about 19000 members.

So if every member on this site owned one, it would be about 2.5% of the total.

Allan R

Ah, but not everyone on the site has. Would be interesting if that was the case though.

So If my car is in the suggested 1% survival category, and counting several of the Canadian members on this site with 72 cars, we are on our way to having a collection of 'rare' cars. Maybe not valuable in everyones eyes but definitely in the eyes of the owners. Time to go find more project cars and boost that number!

beebee78

Well im chimin' in i have one ! lol should be painted by next weekend if im lucky. Cant wait and happy 40th to The 1972 Cutlass mine will be done in time for its birthday. May be we should start a thread and get a count Allan?

car_designer

Well, another '72 Cutlass S in Canada, but this one is a Sports Coupe, and it was originally an American car.

wmachine

Thanks, but in this case, there is no meaningful information to be had, as Jaunty says below.

So there is nothing more than a guess. Existing "statistics" can give you a guess, but stats are general, at best and given the possible inaccuracy in any *specific* case, means the stats are pretty much meaningless.
So the bottom line is to go ahead and guess away. As the saying goes, "Your guess is as good as mine".

And for the record, I'm statistically 99.8% sure that Allan knew there was no such info available when he started this thread. He'll just say the devil made him do it, just like and card carrying troublemaker would!

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Oh man, they do a census for People, why can't we have an Oldsmobile Census....

Lady72nRob71

Yep, Allan just had to start somethin'... We know how he is!

The people census is just a WAG, too; not everyone responds.
Officially, I do not exist...

wmachine

If you wrote to her back then you would have received this type if info because this is typical of information that *was* there and extracted for various reasons, but *now* is gone and no longer available. I'm trying to gather as much of this type of extracted data as possible, seeing that the raw data source is gone.

vette442

1971four4two, that letter has been on my V Code site for about a decade courtesy of Greg Mross, who wrote to her when he acquired one of those 77 Supremes. It's from 1980, when those statistics were still available.

As far as how many are left, I think a higher percentage of muscle-era cars survived due to collectible status as opposed to a run of 1990s Grand Ams or 1980s Tempos, for instance.

Terry

jaunty75

Very very true, relatively speaking. But it's important to remember that we are still talking very low numbers. It's not like half of a vehicle's original production survives, or one-third or one-quarter. No matter how desirable or collectible a car that was originally mass-produced is, after several decades, there is not more than a few percent still in existence. It may not be the 1% value I gave earlier, but it's certainly not more than two or three times that.

Allan R

Ouch! That hurts...troublemaker??? ME? Well, If you need a card, send me your data and I'll get one made up for ya with instructions on basic 'creative questioning techniques'. I like to get people thinking about things that are often overlooked.....

Yes, Kurt is right; I knew there was no real way to determine the outcome short of a dedicated world wide search. I am willing to accept that responsibility as soon as my travel, lodging and stipend is arranged . And you know that by the time that is completed, the numbers would need to be revisited again....I thought it would be interesting to hear back on this though. It just sort of popped into mind based on reviewing the past years auto shows and (in many cases) the conspicuous lack of Oldsmobile representation. Dang! Busted!!!

Neat idea, but it would likely not represent a true cross section of the field. Not even all the folks who are on this site or pass along the info they have would respond - take a look at the number of members who have never posted or have not posted in a significant amount of time. As with all polls, there's a fudge factor that has to be considered based on demographics of the polling. In this case, the factor would be huge. Short answer though? Probably won't work.

Who the heck am I talking to??? I just knew I was hearing disembodied "voices" for the past several years....You just know the IRS will have a field day with this when the find out??? They will go to any lengths to prove you do exist and collect back taxes from when you didn't....

billybob

I see quite a few cutlass s around I HAVE 2 a friend has 1 anouther friend has
a convert and anouther a vista cruiser all 72 . cars on line has quit a few for sale . so i think that pritty well acounts for all the canadian ones!

oldzy

There is a '72 Cutlass Supreme a few blocks away here just sitting in the back like mine (but appears to be running). Well known Olds guy in Stoney Creek (Rob Burla) has a '72 Hurst/Olds Convertible Indy Pace Car. There are a few others in the area as well.

Allan R

LOL I don't think so Tim! (famous line from a show - who remembers?)
Nice to know that there's a larger grouping around where you are. BTW where are you in Canada? I'm going to guess the GTO? You should really talk to oldzy and see if he's interested in those Cutlass Supreme grills you have in your car. BTW, what color is that in your album pics? Hard to tell from the pics but either Flame Orange (code 65) or a custom color?

Hi Ken! Knew we could count you in. Any idea - ballpark - of the number in your area? I don't think there are more than 20 in the Edmonton/St Albert area where I am.


I see someone else was curious about this too - only from a 69 perspective. Good to know I'm not the only one stirring the pot around here!

BLACKATTACK71

I live in the far reaches of the Northeast Nebraska which is very rural and had many, many old cars is in the trees just wish I had the money and could talk farmers into selling them. I remember in the Eighties and Ninties there where alot of rusted out A-bodies in the trees and school parking lots. But due to high steel prices and people not wanting there neigbors on there old cars they have disappeared. I still know of a bunch of places where there are classic cars in the trees but the stuborn SOB's won't sell them!

But back to the Cutlasses I got a friend who has a '69 Cutlass S convertible, I think?

Also today I just saw a Cutlass S sitting outside an old mechanic shop that is along the highway out in the country that I know has been there for over ten years

My best friend also bought a 1972 Cutlass Supreme that was setting out in a pasture for a long time in 1998 and that was his first car, it had 76,000 miles. After he bought it his old man and him dropped the gas tank, filled it, changed the plugs and battery, after that it took a little bit and started right up and ran like a champ. He still has the car and it doesn't even have 80,000 miles yet but the brakes are completely shot and headliner is gone but ive never seen a car run as good as that one does. He has three other brothers and there first cars where '71 Monte, '70 Lemans, '73 camaro and his dad was a '56 nomad. My dads first car was a '56 Bel air, I could go on about all the other ones I know about and there not Oldsmobiles but where doing the best we can to keep the oldies alive!

Other than that a guy doesn't get to see to many cutlasses that old around here.

2blu442

Allen, I got to thinking about your post and wonder how many cars are hidden away in garages that we never see. In the last few months the local Craigslist has had a 1969 442 convertible, 1969 442 hardtop w/4spd and a 1970 442 convertible for sale. These cars are all restored and in very nice condition. But I'd never seen any of them on the road or at a car show. Then another last summer, a friend went by a garage sale and spotted a 1970 SX in the garage with boxes piled on it. Of course I took a drive to check it out. An elderly couple had it and it was in a little better than driver condition but hadn't been driven in years. We also have Dave's 1970 442 convertible that he's restoring (oregontopcat). If I remember right his son was cleaning up a house he'd rented and found this car in a shed out back.

So all that to say, at least in my part of the country (which doesn't salt the roads) there's a lot of nice cars hidden away. This is a good climate for old cars but none of the towns in the Rogue Valley could be considered large cities. Just a different perspective John

Allan R

I'm sure you are right. We need to develop an Olds A-body spectrometer to fly around the state and pick out the trace signatures of these cars. I have NO IDEA how to do this but it sounds neat.

Troys Toy 70

Ok, I can honestly say that of the 105,087 Cutlass Supreme Hardtops; one is unfortunately dead and gone.

Or is it, I still have the vin, cowl tag and title, and misc parts. Some of the misc parts have found their way to my 70 Cutlass S. Does that mean my 70 has an alter ego?

Allan, you must attach the A-body Spectrometer to a Rocket to get a proper reading.

455man

I have a '72 Cutlass maybe an "S", not sure how to tell. Also have a '72 Cutlass Supreme. And there is a guy with a '72 Cutlass a few blocks from me. I seem to see them more often but I also look for them because i have 2.

billybob

my car color is wheatland yellow, it looks orange under street lights or at night yellow in the sun.the guy i bought it from had collected a few parts,grill, hood trunk.so i used the grills because they werent cracked.factory 4 speed posi tons of fun to rip up the road

Allan R

Cool. If you can build it I can fly it!

Allan R

Look at your VIN. The F85 and Cutlass models can look identical, but the only way to know for sure is the VIN or cowl tag.

- If it starts out as 3G87 it's a Cutlass S hardtop coupe.
- If it starts out 3G77 its a Cutlass S Post coupe.
- An F85 in 72 was only offered in 4 dr pillared sedans,
- Plain Cutlass will start with 3F87 for a 2 door and 3G69 for the Town Sedan
- As you know the Supreme starts with 3J39 - 4 dr htp, or 3J56 HT or 3J57 Vert depending on model

Yeah, I look for them all the time too but it's very rare to see any up here. Mostly at shows and even then it's really limited. Almost like people are afraid to drive them. I'm not but I don't drive it in crappy weather if I can help it.

455man

Thanks. I guess I have a 3F87, plain Cutlass. I figured it was not the "S" since I could not find any "S" on the car.

Allan R

The interior door trim and seat panels will also be different than the Cutlass S. One thing you will see different on the door trim is the Cutlass will only have a narrow band of woodgrain. The door panel will be outlined in silver and will not have a lower carpeted area. On a Cutlass S the door panel has a larger woodgrain panel, and in the woodgrain will be an "S" emblem. The S also has door reflectors on the lower portion of the door, secured into the carpet.

Troys Toy 70

Its on the TO DO list right after redoing my front-end, if I still have my sanity.

1972oldslover

i have a 72 cutlass its my babby ive found less then 20 in junkyards in texas i do know my car was 1 of 5,600 from arlington texas. 72 is my favorite year of the cutlass because it should not even exsist the 1973 cutlass was schedule to launch in 1972 but due to some delays the car was not going to make in time so oldsmoble got the 1971 and trew some new teal leans and repainted the metal headlight houseing black.