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Old September 27th, 2009, 02:51 PM   #1
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1960 oldsmobile ninety eight 4 door pillarless sedan

I live in New Zealand and an 1960 oldsmobile ninety eight with these specs has come up for sale

Imported to NZ in 1963 with 17,000 miles on clock.
This is the top of the line Oldsmobile 98 pillar-less with Hydra-Matic 4-sp trans.

394 big block, electric windows & front seat, p/booster brakes,electric fuel pump,twin exhaust, sits on 20" chromes with near new rubber + original rims/tyres.

I Cant find anything else like it in New Zealand are they common in America and what are they worth its really tidy inside and out.
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Old September 27th, 2009, 05:20 PM   #2
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In decent running condition with everything working, a 1960 Ninety-Eight 4-door hardtop is worth anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000 U.S.

"Common" is a relative term. Compared to New Zealand, yes you'll see more '60 98s here in the U.S. But you don't see that many overall, even at the Oldsmobile car shows.

What is the asking price?
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Old September 27th, 2009, 09:29 PM   #3
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$30,000 new zealand dollas about $15,000 US
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Old September 27th, 2009, 10:12 PM   #4
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How rare are they and are they hard to find parts for? Cheers For the reply
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Old September 28th, 2009, 06:22 AM   #5
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For $15k US Dollars it would have to be pristine, at least here in the states. Check out this 63 that is near me:

http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/cto/1389611976.html
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Old September 28th, 2009, 06:26 AM   #6
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here's a similar one: http://www.plan59.com/cars/cars175.htm

note the model name 1959 Oldsmobile 98 Holiday Sportsedan
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Old September 28th, 2009, 06:29 AM   #7
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1960 was a good year for Oldsmobile. I would love to own a 1960 Olds Super 88 coupe.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 07:34 AM   #8
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For $15k US Dollars it would have to be pristine, at least here in the states.
I agree. At that price level, it would have to be in like-new condition.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 08:34 AM   #9
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For $15k US Dollars it would have to be pristine, at least here in the states. Check out this 63 that is near me:

http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/cto/1389611976.html
I agree, $15K is approaching a top end price for this car. It would have to be in near excellent condition all around for $15k. The NADA Price Guide here is the US lists the high end price for about $ 20K (w/Hydramatic transmission). But this guide is just a starting point - only a guide. I would suggest checking out the historical data on what these cars have been actually selling for on ebay and others. It would be great if you had historical data to reference in NZ, especially in these economic times, to give you an idea of what you could negotiate in price. It's sure a "Buyers market" here in the US.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 08:55 AM   #10
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Of course, you have to keep in mind the cost of getting the car TO New Zealand. If it was brought there in 1960, then that cost is long sunk and should not bear too much on the value of the car now. But if it was brought over recently by the current owner, then he might be looking to recover that cost as well when selling it. I have no idea what it costs to transport a single car from the U.S. to New Zealand, but I would guess it to be in the several thousand dollar range.

Another factor in the value would probably be the rarity of the car IN New Zealand. If someone there wants one, this is probably his only choice, unless he wants to pay to have one shipped from the U.S. If he does that, though, he incurs that shipping cost as well as the cost of the car itself. It would be worth a premium to be able to buy it locally.


Added later: I just now noticed in your original post that the car went over to New Zealand in 1963, so forget about the second part of my first paragraph! The car has been in New Zealand long enough that the cost of getting it there shouldn't be a factor in the price.

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Old September 28th, 2009, 01:27 PM   #11
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How rare are they and are they hard to find parts for? Cheers For the reply
According to the figures in "Setting the Pace," production of the 4-door hardtop version of the 1960 98 (called the "Holiday SportSedan" with sportsedan one word) was 27,257. It was the most-produced version of the '60 98. Second was the 4-door sedan (Celebrity Sedan) at 17,188, a distant third was the 2-door hardtop (Holiday SceniCoupe) at 7,635, and last, but not by much, was the Convertible Coupe at 7,284. Also made were 2,071 left-hand drive 98s of various types for export.

The 4-door hardtop version had a base price of $4,159, which was pretty pricey for 1959 (in my opinion!) and was about 33% higher than the base price of the equivalent lowest-end, full size Olds, the Dynamic 88 4-door hardtop (also called "Holiday SportSedan").

Oldsmobile produced a total of 347,141 cars in 1959. Total 98 production was about 18% of this, and 98 4-door hardtop production was about 8% of this.

The 1960 Ninety-Eight had a wheelbase of 126.3 inches, a total length of 220.9 inches (over 18 feet), and weighed 4,596 lbs, making it the heaviest of any of the 98s that year and the heaviest non-station wagon made by Olds. The station wagon versions of the Dynamic 88 and Super 88 all came in at between 4,600 and 4,700 lbs.

The 30-year survival rate for automobiles built up through the late 1970s is about 1%. After that, cars that old that are still around are likely being kept as a collector car, so the survival rate levels off. For cars from about 1980 and newer, the survival rate is higher because cars tended to be better built, and "planned obsolescence" wasn't as planned so much any more. For example, the 20-year survival rate for a 1970 model year car was about 5%. For 1990 model year cars, which are just now approaching 20 years of age, the survival rate is estimated to be abouit 30%

(If you're interested, you can see these stats here. See page 26.)


With this in mind, you can assume that there are very roughly 250 to 300 1960 Ninety-Eight 4-door hardtops still in existence.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 01:45 PM   #12
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The 30-year survival rate for automobiles built up through the late 1970s is about 1%.
Accorrding to who?

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With this in mind, you can assume that there are very roughly 250 to 300 1960 Ninety-Eight 4-door hardtops still in existence.
That math doesn't seem right. There have to be more cars left than that. I see numerous 50s, 60s, and 70s Oldsmobiles EVERY month in various states of disrepair and I rarely travel outside of Lawton or OKC, OK.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 01:58 PM   #13
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Gawd! I love that green interior in the second add illustration. That is beautiful!
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Old September 28th, 2009, 02:18 PM   #14
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Accorrding to who?
See the reference I mentioned.



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That math doesn't seem right. There have to be more cars left than that. I see numerous 50s, 60s, and 70s Oldsmobiles EVERY month in various states of disrepair and I rarely travel outside of Lawton or OKC, OK.
I said 250-300 98 4-door hardtops. The survival rate for ALL 1960 Oldsmobiles would be about 1% of the 347,000 total production figure, which would be about 3,500. Seems a reasonable number to me for one model year from that long ago.

In looking at the 11 model years from 1960 through 1970, Olds made 5,860,000 cars. 1% of that number is almost 59,000, which is a large number and certainly explains why you might occasionally see an Olds of that vintage as you go about your daily life, especially if you live in a more dry part of the country like you do, where cars last longer. Here in Ohio, I never see anything that old around.

The point is, though, that there is nothing wrong with the 1% survival rate number. For any given year and body style, the survival numbers will be low, but taken in total, they can be quite high. After all, 1% of a large number can still be a large number!
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Old September 28th, 2009, 02:54 PM   #15
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Cheers Guys this info is great its good to have a forum so handy around.

Giving the fact that theres only 250-300 around what are parts like to find for them especially the wiring as the whole things electric which i thought was amazing for something that old. Are parts interchangable with the chevy impalas and belairs or not?

So with those rates the car may be the only in New Zealand we would think.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 03:04 PM   #16
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So with those rates the car may be the only in New Zealand we would think.
That would be my guess. How common was it to import U.S. makes to New Zealand back in the early '60s?

I did mention that a small number of 98s were made specifically for export as they were right-hand drive. In New Zealand, you drive on the left side of the road, correct? Is this car that we're talking about one of the right-hand drive models made specifically for export? Or is a left-hand drive like we have here in the States that made it over to New Zealand because someone wanted one?
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Old September 28th, 2009, 04:28 PM   #17
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Wouldnt amagine it would have been high.

The car is a left hand drive so somebody must have wanted it and brought it over.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 04:34 PM   #18
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The car is a left hand drive so somebody must have wanted it and brought it over.
That's got to be very unusual as bringing a car from the U. S. over to New Zealand on one's own must have been pretty unusual back in those days. It must have an interesting history.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 04:54 PM   #19
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Yeah the guys got all the original build sheet and manuals so id prosume he'd have the history of it on one of the papers.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 04:57 PM   #20
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http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=243320120

Heres the car if anybody wants to look at it
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Old September 28th, 2009, 05:00 PM   #21
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looks like factory A/C
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Old September 28th, 2009, 05:05 PM   #22
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Interesting. The ad lists it as a "Chevrolet Oldsmobile 1960."

It's a nice looking car, but, personally, I think those wheels ruin it. But that's just me. (Fortunately, they can be replaced!)

Also interesting is why he's selling it. "Won't fit in garage."
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Old September 28th, 2009, 05:13 PM   #23
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Yeah i think hes listed it like that because we dont have a oldsmobile catigory over here. And i would amagine everybody looks at them as a chevy impala because they are alot more common over here.

Yeah rims are easy to change though and not that dear. And the original rims and original tyres come with it.

The garage he has is only a town house garage so putting a 5.5m car in it doesnt really work.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 05:30 PM   #24
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Yeah i think hes listed it like that because we dont have a oldsmobile catigory over here. And i would amagine everybody looks at them as a chevy impala because they are alot more common over here.
That's funny, because there are a lot of people over HERE who would also think that an Olds '98 is just a funny-looking Chevy Impala!


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The garage he has is only a town house garage so putting a 5.5m car in it doesnt really work.
So the current owner bought the car, got it home, and THEN discovered that it won't fit in the garage? Bummer! You'd think that if there was any question about such a thing, he'd have taken measurements BEFORE buying the car.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 06:31 PM   #25
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Cheers Guys this info is great its good to have a forum so handy around.

Giving the fact that theres only 250-300 around what are parts like to find for them especially the wiring as the whole things electric which i thought was amazing for something that old. Are parts interchangable with the chevy impalas and belairs or not?

So with those rates the car may be the only in New Zealand we would think.
PARTS: Here in the US parts are not that difficult to find. We have some excellent auto parts suppliers located in major cities throughout the US, to include salvage yards, some auctions and various swap meet locals. We also have mail order part houses, like Fusick and Kanter, and others you can look up on the internet. Some GM parts may be interchangable, but I would be careful here.

Have you visited this car yet? The photos do not show much detail and no closeup shots...I like the car, it looks straight, but I would plan on going over it with a fine tooth comb. Also you may want a reputable mechanic's opinion (placing it on a rack searching for rust, etc.) before purchasing. I doubly like that the car has its original build sheet - properly authenticating it to whatever degree it reveals.

Good luck.

Last edited by Dan Wirth; September 28th, 2009 at 07:14 PM.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 10:12 PM   #26
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Weve been down to view it and it looks tidy paints slightly fading but really unostisable. Engine seams very sound. We did a big search looking for rust and couldnt really find any is there somewhere the oldsmobile is bad for getting that we should look for?

With what you guys have which is more knowledge then us do you think it is worth while buying.
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Old September 29th, 2009, 12:53 AM   #27
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It is not eaxy to give you a recommendation. Granted. your info has generated lots of discussion which is good. Unfortunately none in the forum are seeing the car first hand, so perhaps providing a recommendation is too strong. What may be given in my view is an opinion. Please see below:

1. What is the car being used for: a daily driver, a project car - any additional work for car shows, parades, etc.? What expectations do you have for the car's purpose?

2. Please send or take more clear photos, close up as well, so details can be seen, inside and out. Take the tarp/cover completely off the vehicle so there is plenty of light and shadows aren't obscuring the details. The photos that you provided simply don't say enough. Photos of the under carriage are also important; so the car should be placed on a rack (hoist) for inspection, along with photos of rocker panels and around wheel wells, any bends, nooks or crannies that retain moisture and can harbor rust. Any evidence of an accident: doors, hoods not lining up, fenders and bumbers not exact?

3. Describe the paint job in more detail. For example, give info on scratches, dents, cracks, bubbling effects (from rust), how much fading (percentage), and other color differences that may tell of previous spot painting. Obtain as much history of the car as possible from the seller, especially about rust issues and accidents, if known. In your opinion, is the paint job less than excellent or good quality - or does the car need new paint?

4. Please also know that shipping of parts from the US can be very expensive. I spoke to a guy from Australia who was selling an item that I wanted & it weighed about 15-20 lbs and was 24"Wx18"Dx18"H. The price of shipping to the US was more than the item was worth. (I'm assuming the same shipping expense applies in reverse). I ended up not buying.

5. Is the engine, chassis and frame sound. Identify all problems with the car "As is".

6. Is this seller willing to negotiate a lower price or is the $30k NZ firm?

There have been a lot of good posts here with ample information to help you make some good decisions about the car. And I believe there are plenty of folks here willing to continue helping - so keep on keeping on...and good luck!

Last edited by Dan Wirth; September 29th, 2009 at 01:01 AM.
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Old September 29th, 2009, 04:40 AM   #28
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Giving the fact that theres only 250-300 around what are parts like to find for them especially the wiring as the whole things electric which i thought was amazing for something that old.
One thing you can do immediately is go to the Fusick website (www.fusick.com) and download their catalog 520, which has parts for 1935 through 1960 Oldsmobiles. You can look through it and see the kinds of things that are available. There are other parts suppliers as well, but Fusick is a good place to start. They have been around for many years.
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Old September 29th, 2009, 04:48 AM   #29
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With what you guys have which is more knowledge then us do you think it is worth while buying.
I agree with Dan Wirth on this. No one can make this decision but you. In the end, you'll have to weigh the pros and the cons, add up the positives, subtract the negatives, figure in a few of the intangibles, consider what life will be like with this car, and then make a decision.


To my mind, the price seems high, even given that it's priced in New Zealand dollars. At the current exchange rate, $30,000 New Zealand is about $21,000 U.S. I know the car is in New Zealand and thus extremely rare over there, if it's not the only one. That'll add some value, but not a lot in my mind. In the end, a car's a car, and it's the car itself that affects value the most, in my opinion.
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Old September 29th, 2009, 08:09 AM   #30
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Late to this thread, My 2 cents. Nice looking car, I don't have any idea of what the cost of shipping a car is from the US but I would research that and then deduct that price from the asking price of the car and see where your at. Its about what you want, and what you consider fair. You can also make an offer nothing ventured nothing gained. Good luck

One last thing almost forgot. I own a 57 super 88 and prefer the large cars of the mid to late fiftys and earlier 60's so I am willing to spend a little more to get what I want in those years of cars
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Old September 29th, 2009, 10:53 AM   #31
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Thanks Guys

I have factored in the shipping to NZ. Approx NZ$4000 on the water + internal freight at either end. we also have a compliance cost which is always a bit unknown. You normally have to replace brakes, suspension bushes etc and then theres the good old damage done by the guys on the wharf each end who dont always care to much and can be hardto prove. We have a 1972 Dodge Challenger (with big block etc fitted)and are looking for a cruising car like somethink a little different than an Impala etc. Heaps of Mustangs and Corvettes have been imported so thats why we have a Challenger.

Thanks
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Old September 29th, 2009, 10:58 AM   #32
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Picture of Challenger Yeah I know its the wrong breed for you guys.
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Old September 29th, 2009, 03:00 PM   #33
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Sharp looking challenger.

I had a 1970 Challenger, got it new in NY state and it saved a bundle of money doing that all those years ago and then drove it back to my home in California. Great cruiser, fun to drive and fast.
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Old September 29th, 2009, 03:00 PM
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