Judging......OCA and such... (was W36 stripe)

[wmachine]

Originally Posted by rocketraider

Suffice to say I'm not too happy with the '09 OCA judging results either. There are a whole lot of cars and owners going home with first place awards that did not deserve them. I'm embarrassed to say the two classes I judged are among them. I was the engine guy, and I and the undercarriage/wheels guy were the only ones on that four-man team who judged their areas properly. The cars were nice, but no way did some of them have zero point deductions on their paint, interior, trunk and brightwork.
Yah, they tell us not to be overly critical, but if I have my car judged, I want to know its weak areas so I can correct them. If the car is judged by a different crew next time out, who does its task properly, there's gonna be some mad-ass owners around because they got a first this year and a second next year.
The show itself was good. But given the judging results, and a couple other things that happened, a 2009 OCA National Award is going to be severely diluted IMHO.

Originally Posted by rocketraider

Don't get me started. As an OCA Zone director I pushed to get a formal judges' training program in place, with training and qualifications on specific carlines. It was like running up against a brick wall- the judging committee didn't want to hear about it (or anything else that would have put any work and responsibility on them), and then some of their number got really good at creating diversions that took priority over cleaning up our judging program. One in particular really should have pulled some jail time for some of the shyt he did. And that damn Keystone Kops judging video they did in the early 90s was an embarrassment to anyone who took their judging role seriously.

The performance classes generally have better and tighter judging than the others, by people who know something about the cars. Starfires and Toronados are the same way. But it's pretty obvious some judges are totally lacking in any knowledge of the car they're supposed to be critiquing to an as-built showroom standard. If it's pretty, they'll give it a first.

There was a 1967 Delta Custom Holiday Coupe that had made it to seniors with high-gloss black paint on everything underhood that is supposed to be black. Gorgeous car and one of my favorite Oldsmobiles, but sorry Charlie- the General did NOT make them that way. To my thinking, that car should never have made it to junior best of class with all that polished black underhood.

Rocketraider is right on the money. OCA judging needs all the help they can get. In all fairness, these shortcomings are not just OCA. Judging has become more of a case of condition that originality or correctness. And from a true "preservation" standpoint, that is a move in the wrong direction.
For instance, the judging rules favor a beautiful new incorrect base/clear paint over nice original paint with one chip in it.
Even a knowledgeable judge is hampered by rules that still favor condition over originality and correctness.
And we (OCA) needs to get more knowledgeable judges. Tough to do with Oldsmobiles because there is little centralized knowledge bases. And what is correct continues to be debated. And knowledgeable are dying, quite frankly.
I think there is a lot of reform needed. Now that we have computers, spreadsheets, data bases, e-mail, forums, etc., we need to work on Oldsmobile data bases like the Olds Wiki for example. Find out and document what is original and correct. Then set up the point system to favor correctness and originality and train judges on what to look for.
We have a long way to go, and unfortunately it looks like we're going more backwards than forwards.
I'd be more than happy to do my part as Rocketraider does. That is what it will take.

[Redog]

i think it might help if the judges knew about the cars they were judgeing

My freind with the final 500 alero had points taken off for aftermarket chrome exhasut tips. the tips where factory and never removed or tampered with in the first place kinda like the other 499 final 500 aleros made

[TK-65]

I overheard one of my class judges (64-67 perf) ask if the 66 442s came with a rear sway bar from the factory. Questions like that should be heard at the local benefit car show, not a national event.

[TK-65]

Originally Posted by wmachine

Tough to do with Oldsmobiles because there is little centralized knowledge bases. And what is correct continues to be debated. And knowledgeable are dying, quite frankly.

One of the big reasons I started my site was to document everything and anything 65 442. We also have a forum so the 65 guys can talk and learn things we didnt know. Along with Bros 442 site, which is a hell of alot better than mine, we have everything related to the 65 covered.

[BIGJERR]

This is one of the reasons I went the dragracing route.......No one to blame but myself......I would love to have a concourse show car but the effort to make it "Show room stock" just doesnt hold much of a draw as a smokey burnout and a pedal punching launch.......Nothing against those who like that sort of thing tho.................Jerr

[Redog]

Originally Posted by TK-65

I overheard one of my class judges (64-67 perf) ask if the 66 442s came with a rear sway bar from the factory. Questions like that should be heard at the local benefit car show, not a national event.

And it's comments like that, that should not even be thought of.

I personally could judge an Alero and 78-85 Delta 88's all day and not make a mistake. But a guy asking a question like that then being allowed to judge a car it totally unacceptable.

Just to show the differences between the Aleros

99 had different speaker grilles on the back deck
99-00 had "Oldsmobile" on the trunk lid very very very small, 01 and up was larger
01 was the last year for body matching mirrors
99-01 was the 2.4 twin cam motor 02 started the Ecotec
01 had 2 different sets of polished rims
04 final 500 had chrome exhust tips
99 was the only year for Plum paint
there were 3 different lower manifolds on the 3400 V6 motors one in 99, one in 00 (used thru 2002) and one in 03+ (best one to get for modifying)
half way thru 99, they started using EGR's on the 3400 engine