120 on Cruise Control!

[Lady72nRob71]

(Well, that's the dream and desire here anyway...)

Installing the factory cruise system into my 1972 Cutlass Supreme (a.k.a. "Lady").




Lady's cruise control project had really started mid-August 2008, by obtaining used and NOS components of the original 1972 cruise control system that was available as an option on the Cutlass. Since mine did not come with it, and I wanted it, this was the best way to go… It would take a load off my right foot on long trips and will still look completely stock in the car. The system would therefore satisfy car show judges as well.

First batch of parts came from a member of the G-Body forum. For 150 bucks, I got a very good, complete wiring harness, an almost-excellent turn signal stalk with button, a restorable brake switch assembly, two sets of speedo cables, and a very crusty regulator. I soon cleaned up the harness, brake switches and bracket, turn signal stalk, and removed and cleaned the regulator bracket, which will be powder coated with the other brackets later.
I had started on the regulator itself, but soon realized it may be in too bad a shape to mess with. The internals were very rusty also, so I put it on hold.

The next batch of parts came from Allan from the Classic Olds forum.
For a mere 36 bucks I got a restorable dash switch assy., a rusty carb linkage assembly, and a grungy-looking regulator. I also got an extra wire harness I did not need; it was stored as a spare.
I cleaned the dash switch bezel and opened up the nasty-looking regulator. I was greeted by a very clean set of internals and even an intact foam air filter! I cleaned up the cover and it looked very nice. Although not show-worthy right now, it will need either painting or plating to make it so. I think this will be easy to restore internally – it does look great for a 35 year old under-hood part!

I had finally scored a NOS servo unit off evil bay for a whopping 166 bucks, as this is the hardest to find part. On used parts, the rubber bellows are almost always rotted away and no replacements are available to my knowledge. The local old-car bone yard reported all he found were rotted.

The firewall accessory grommet was had at the Parts Place and the Vacuum Y fitting was donated by the very kind Gery on this forum (thanks again!)

All I need now is a servo bracket, clip for the speedo cables at the regulator, and the manifold fitting.

Back on September 3, a COLD summer day in the low 70’s, I worked on the cruise throttle linkage. I took everything apart and removed accumulated grime from them. I also got the roller free, after being soaked in WD40 for a few days and then heating it with a torch until it broke it free. After a good washing, the parts will be ready for painting or plating.

Here is the first group of parts that was installed underdash:


The cruise control dash switch was a baby rattle, so I overhauled it back on Christmas day. The original indicator light bulb was broke off. I just happened to have an exact replacement in my tackle box (amazing!) so I soldered it in, strategically positioning it for maximum brightness when the switch was in the ON position.

It was reassembled and I plan to cut its dash hole and install it before the new carpet goes in. If a replacement faceplate becomes available, I will replace it also.


The next evening I pulled the steering wheel and installed the turn signal lever with the cruise switch.
Although removal of the lock plate would have made it easier to route the wire, I found its removal to be difficult and it was possible to very CAREFULLY maneuver the end through the 630 position lock notch as shown:

Using a spring-steel insert from a wiper blade insert for fishtape, I very carefully drew the wire and through the column and its plastic wire protector was slipped on at the end as described in the assy manual. The lever was mounted with the same screw, but the notch in the turn signal switch had to be slightly widened at the end.
The lock plate cover and the steering wheel were cleaned up and reinstalled. The wheel was in great condition to start with!


Next came the first dreaded job – making the 1.25” diameter hole in the firewall for the accessory grommet.
It is in a very tight spot where a regular drill wouldn’t go. I found the dimple and marked it as indicated by the assy manual. I decided the best way to do this was with a dremel, as it is very small and compact. I bought a high-speed carbide cutting bit for it ($8) and it cut very well, despite taking a firm grip and still wanting to“wander”…


Next I taped the wire harness with the non-stick tape as shown in the assy manual:


The brakelight switch was disassembled, cleaned, and installed under the dash. The cruise wire harness was routed and installed:

The vacuum release valve needs a hard-to-find O-ring, so it had not been installed yet but will be easy to do later; the hose is right there now.

The shorter (40”) speedometer-to-regulator cable was thoroughly cleaned (inside & out) with WD-40 and the cable was lightly lubed with lithium grease. The housing ends were wire-brushed with the dremel and covered up to keep the dust out, the lube in, and prevent the cable from slipping out during installation.

The speedo cable, vacuum hose to the brake switch, wire harness, and hood lock cable were all run through the freshly cut firewall hole. The grommet was modified and installed as per the assy manual, and lastly the regulator ground wire was secured…
Although the assy manual had shown the speedo cable running through a separate grommet twice, there was one page that showed it passing through the lower hole of the accessory grommet! I decided to take the latter route, eliminating a separate 0.85” hole to bore out and finding that pesky grommet. I figured I am still a little right a little bit; I will deviate from stock just a little bit.

The next day I cleaned and lubed the transmission-to-regulator cable (56”) and connected it to the tranny, in place of my old cable. It routes slightly different than the standard cable.
Afterwards I cleaned up the exterior of the very crusty, rusty regulator that is almost beyond help. I lubed the internal gears and assembled it. It and its bracket will be installed temporarily to be used as a speedo cable coupling until the nice looking one is restored and finished.
The mounting holes were drilled in the dimples provided on the fenderwell and the regulator installed.
The vacuum hoses were all cut to length and installed along with the Y fitting that just came in the mail.
Here is the end result for now…

That nasty looking regulator is only temporary!

I also installed the missing PCV valve hose clamp that attaches to the alternator bracket as shown in the assy manual.

So this sums up stage 1 of the cruise installation – TBC!

[Oldsguy]

Good work Rob, I can tell you appreciate attention to detail.

[Jamesbo]

Rob,

Your threads are always so well done. Nice work.

[citcapp]

Doing a quality job the first time is always worth it. Nice looking install

[Jamesbo]

"I just happened to have an exact replacement in my tackle box (amazing!) so I soldered it in, strategically positioning it for maximum "

Rob please tell me you have a Plano Tackle Box

[Lady72nRob71]

Originally Posted by Jamesbo

"I just happened to have an exact replacement in my tackle box (amazing!) so I soldered it in, strategically positioning it for maximum "

Rob please tell me you have a Plano Tackle Box

As a matter of fact, it is "Plano" brand... .....................Happy?

I once used it as my lab kit box when in I was in tech school back in '90. It then went to my first company as my toolbox. After half a year (when i got a real job), the box found its permanent home in the back bedroom as my "inside toolbox" (a.k.a. junkbox)...

The "grain o' wheat" lamp was actually left over from my lab parts from tech school... I knew I saved them for something!


Thanks to all for the complements so far... Yes, the little details are a big thing to me... (That's one reason I'm not married...)

[Jamesbo]

Originally Posted by Lady72nRob71

Thanks to all for the complements so far... Yes, the little details are a big thing to me... (That's one reason I'm not married...)

I need to send my wife over to straighten out your bachelor ways.

I told her the other day, "It's not fair asking me where the butter is until you at least open the refrigerator door."

[Lady72nRob71]

Originally Posted by Jamesbo

I need to send my wife over to straighten out your bachelor ways.

Well tell her to send those single ladies right over!

Of course as soon as they walk in the door and trip over the Olds carpet that has become a permanent floor fixture, they will leave just as fast...

The ones who get up and stay, will not be impressed with the counter tops and dining table being used for parts storage, the sink for parts washing, the oven for parts drying and heating, and the stove for heat-shrinking wiring...
The water heater incident left even more of a mess. Even I feel bad now when I go in there...
It will be fixed soon, as I don't like washing parts with cold water...

If anyone opened my fridge, they would see beer, not butter.
If they looked in the freezer, they would would see 6 cans of R12, not chicken.

The back bedroom (parts / junk storage) would be locked of course...

I face reality - there ain't no changing me at this point!

[kaz442]

Can I ask why the R12 is in the freezer?? I hava a few cases I'm saving for a rainy day and they just sit in my garage. JKaz

[Lady72nRob71]

Originally Posted by kaz442

Can I ask why the R12 is in the freezer?? I hava a few cases I'm saving for a rainy day and they just sit in my garage. JKaz

I would put the chik'n in the garage and the R12 in the freezer...
What costs more?

Reason 1 is that it is very dry in there - little chance for can rusting / corrosion due to humidity and condensation. Ever open the door to your cold garage and a gust of warm humid wind blows in and every cold surface gets damp and sweaty?

Reason 2 is that cold temperatures reduce the pressure in the can due to the chemical nature of R12. Lower pressure means less chance of leakage through seams over many years.

Reason 3 is that it freaks out the women who ever open the freezer door! I like to see the looks on their faces...

[Oldsguy]

Originally Posted by Lady72nRob71

...Reason 3 is that it freaks out the women who ever open the freezer door! I like to see the looks on their faces...

What women? I thought you preferred your Oldsmobile?

[Lady72nRob71]

Originally Posted by Oldsguy

I thought you preferred your Oldsmobile?

Of course I do! She is more than happy that my kitchen and bedrooms are storing her parts...
Also, she never runs away from me, even when she bites me and cuss her out royally...
Best thing is that she never leaves home without ME...

[Jamesbo]

And she's not as hard on the ole wallet.

Grandpappy used to say,

"If it flies, floats or fornicates, you're better off renting it."

[only he did use big words]

[Bluevista]

I don't think I charged enough for those parts. My go-to knowledge and parts guy that I got those from is unfortunately no longer with us so that source is gone. An old school 50-60's drag racer scruffy old SOB that forgot more than most guys know about Olds or any other engines and would argue about anything for the sake of argument, a good buddy.
He stopped by to help out with the Vista and yell at me regularly, never married so he had nothing better to do either.

[citcapp]

I've always thought a real man needs a 900 square foot house, just enough room for a bed, small kitchen with a built in grill beer cooler, bath with shower (who needs a tub) and at least a 10,000 square shop attached for all of his toys. Sounds like Rob is well on his why to the perfect set up. You convert is comming along nicley, when do you hope to complete your build?

[Lady72nRob71]

Originally Posted by citcapp

I've always thought a real man needs a 900 square foot house, just enough room for a bed, small kitchen with a built in grill beer cooler, bath with shower (who needs a tub) and at least a 10,000 square shop attached for all of his toys. Sounds like Rob is well on his why to the perfect set up. You convert is comming along nicley, when do you hope to complete your build?

I have 1800 square feet, but I probably only live in half of that. At the moment, Olds parts are occupying the other half. - Clean, climate controlled storage...
I NEED my bathtub... It was great to use to scrub Lady's floormats in...
The 10K SF shop would be awesome...

If only I'd known I would be restoring cars...
About 10 years ago I had planned to get married and have a family, but things changed during that time...
I'm now kinda married to a mechanical beast; no room for offspring, thats for sure.

Thanks for the compliments...
She is coming along pretty well. Since I missed my goal of finishing her in the late fall, I have slowed down to do even more "mightaswell" work during the cold months.
I will have the current work finished up this coming spring (March or April), just in time for a long drive to the mountains for a relaxing vacation...

[Lady72nRob71]

This past Saturday, I installed the cruise control dash switch… Just make a hole, bolt it in and plug in the wiring – easy huh? Not so fast; it took a good part of 7 hours…

I was probably over cautious in doing this, knowing that I could really F up the dash if I was not careful. Also, the switch mounted with screw bosses that were already on the back of the dash panel. The bezel was free-mounted and I had to make them match up within a tiny fraction of an inch.
I do have the assy manual and it gave all the dimensions I needed. But instead of getting out the drafting tools or worse, guessing, I decided to pull the top switch and make a template from its hole. This procedure was best done by pulling the left gauge pod and the speedometer. I needed to install the different speedo cable for cruise anyway.
The top switch connector is a pain to get off; 3 small screwdrivers are need to pop two clips at the same time while levering it off. Not easy to do in a restricted area when holding a mirror and a flashlight, while seeing only a mirrored image of it all! (See picture below). Patience paid off…

I then cut a piece of cardboard to fit in securely between the column and the wiper switch. Using a sharp utility knife, I cut out the top switch hole in the template. I then traced that hole pattern on a piece of paper, and transferred it back to the template based on the measurements given in the assy manual.
Here is what I ended up with – the switch bezels fit perfectly.


Now before I just started cutting with the template, I wanted to make SURE that the manual and my judgment was correct. Using the top switch as a reference, this one plastic tab (circled) is almost flush with the left side of the switch hole… Using my little Dremel with a drill bit, I made a small hole from behind at that tab location.
Here is another good time it would have been nice to have a helper hold the light while I held the mirror and drilled. I just held the light in my mouth…
Here is the tab and the reference hole:


I put the template in place and voila - it lined right up! I marked the hole with a permanent marker and covered the dash area with a few layers of masking tape in case the Dremel slipped. Using the utility knife, I carefully cut the woodgrain material to keep the Dremel from yanking at it and its sticky adhesive, possibly damaging it. I used the carbide cutting tool and routed out the hole carefully and keeping a firm grip on the tool. I cleaned the rough sections with the knife and fine tuned the hole until the switch fit from behind and the bezel fit and lined up at the front. Here is the procedure in pictures…


After a good cleaning of the area, the cruise switch’s terminals were wire brushed with the Dremel and coated with a thin layer of dielectric grease to retard corrosion. The bezel was installed and then the switch. Alignment was perfect. The cruise switch harness ground was secured under the top right wiper switch screw to provide a ground for the cruise switch indicator lamp and the connector was snapped onto the switch. The connector was finicky to snap on, but it eventually mated.

Now since the top switch was pulled out, I figured I should overhaul it… It is a high-current switch, so I wanted to clean it up and wire brush any pitting on the contacts inside. The moving parts were lightly greased and the switch reassembled. This simple service is offered by companies for about 60 bucks, even though it is very easy to do!
Just take pictures of how it came apart, or make notes on paper.
Here are the guts:


The top switch and bezel was reinstalled like the cruise switch. Its connector was finicky to get back on, but patience paid off and it finally went on. Here is what you are dealing with:


After all that, I tightened all visible screws and fasteners I could see under the dash before I installed the speedometer. I reconnected the battery and made some functional checks on everything, such as the dash lights, turn indicators, power top, and cruise indicator light – all worked! I reinstalled the gauge pod and rechecked it. The trim was reinstalled and all looked great! Well except for the yellowed cruise switch faceplate… I need to find a replacement for it soon.
Here is the end result:

Notice the correct turn signal lever with cruise button and the new hood lock control under the dash.

The brake vacuum release valve was also (temporarily) repaired. Since I could not find a new O-ring or the whole valve itself, I decided to try something…
I simply painted the inside of the sealing surface with a thin coat of POR15. This made the port slightly smaller so the O-ring would seal correctly. So far it seems okay, but only time will tell…

Coming soon - the servo, bracket, and linkage...

(On a side note, I got my new kitchen water heater installed yesterday. Five new water connections, 3 disturbed connections, zero leaks first round! It looks like after 37 years of trial and error, I finally mastered this plumbing stuff! )

[Jamesbo]

Beautiful work Rob Thanks for sharing your progress and pics with us.

[citcapp]

Rob,

looks like things are comming together nicely. One step closer to cruising
The fine points of plumbing are not in my wheelhouse, I usually have at least one leak. Good job

[scrappie]

Good stuff Rob. I bought a complete cruise control set up for my 71 442 years ago. I have yet to install because I plan on doing a frame off hopefully in this lifetime. I am pretty sure I have everything but the condition of the rubber worries me. What parts are certain to be worn out or deteriated and are any parts still available ?

[Lady72nRob71]

Originally Posted by scrappie

...I am pretty sure I have everything but the condition of the rubber worries me. What parts are certain to be worn out or deteriated and are any parts still available ?

Thanks to all for the compliments... Hopefully this all will help others who venture out on this limb also...

The parts that will deteriorate over time will be the round vacuum servo that mounts on the engine, which is the hardest to find in restorable condition. Used parts are often long gone. And since the rubber bellows are made to flex, used parts may have a limited life. Individuals who hoard parts, swap meets, and auctions are about the only sources; no repros are made (darn...)

The regulator unit may need some refurbishment, as there are rubber and foam parts inside that can deteriorate. I think these parts can be made if needed. Rebuilding mine is one of my next steps. Sources are like those of servos.

The last part would be the brake vacuum release valve; there is one tiny O-ring inside that is almost impossible to find in that size. I made my valve's port smaller to compensate fo rthe shrunken O-ring, so I will see how that works. Sources are like that of servos.

If you can, store the above mentioned pieces indoors away from ozone-creating appliances and away from sunlight. A cool dark place is great, but not in the fridge (too dry).

[J-(Chicago)]

Nice work.

[Allan R]

Originally Posted by Lady72nRob71

....... Well except for the yellowed cruise switch faceplate… I need to find a replacement for it soon.

Hi Rob,
I really liked your photo step by step.

HERE's the link you need for a brand new Cruise faceplate.
http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/f...ain2.asp?cat=3 Item HH 84 . Not cheap though.

[Bluevista]

Originally Posted by scrappie

Good stuff Rob. I bought a complete cruise control set up for my 71 442 years ago. I have yet to install because I plan on doing a frame off hopefully in this lifetime. I am pretty sure I have everything but the condition of the rubber worries me. What parts are certain to be worn out or deteriated and are any parts still available ?

I got my '71 servo bellows (different than the '72) from an import place, Jaguar and other English makes used the same one. I searched forever for a used one then I started using belllows instead of servo to search and the Jaguar ones looked the same. I contacted the place that had them and got a measurement and it was the the same so I went for it. I got it and it is exactly the same as the old one, works too.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...3AIT&viewitem=

There's an NOS cruise type turn lever on evilbay right now too.

[Lady72nRob71]

Originally Posted by Allan R

Hi Rob,
I really liked your photo step by step.

HERE's the link you need for a brand new Cruise faceplate.
http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/f...ain2.asp?cat=3 Item HH 84 . Not cheap though.

Thanks Allan... I am not done yet, though. I still have the servo bracket on its way and the good regulator to rebuild. I am concentrating on getting the interior done, now so i can get this carpet out of my kitchen... It has been there for 4 months.

OPG also has that faceplate for 30 bucks, but I have a local parts house that is looking to find it cheaper.
Fusicks has all the other faceplates for almost half price! I wish they had the cruise one!

[Bluevista]

I can't wait until you fire up that cruise Rob. I really can't wait for the pic with that little red light on, the speedo needle pegged at 120, and your right foot in full view off the accelerator, in fact both feet so no cheating. To verify a Texas Ranger in his patrol car has to be following you with a video of his certified speedometer at 120 and your car in the same shot, with feet in full view also.
You may see that video on an episode of Cops if you get lucky, think of how proud your cellmates would be to have a star amongst them.

[Allan R]

Originally Posted by Lady72nRob71

Thanks Allan... I am not done yet, though. I still have the servo bracket on its way and the good regulator to rebuild. I am concentrating on getting the interior done, now so i can get this carpet out of my kitchen... It has been there for 4 months.

OPG also has that faceplate for 30 bucks, but I have a local parts house that is looking to find it cheaper.
Fusicks has all the other faceplates for almost half price! I wish they had the cruise one!

If you find the faceplate for less and it's good quality, could you please PM me where to get it? BTW, please check your messages, I sent you a PM about the servo. Thanks.

[Lady72nRob71]

Originally Posted by amh555

I can't wait until you fire up that cruise Rob. I really can't wait for the pic with that little red light on, the speedo needle pegged at 120, and your right foot in full view off the accelerator, in fact both feet so no cheating. To verify a Texas Ranger in his patrol car has to be following you with a video of his certified speedometer at 120 and your car in the same shot, with feet in full view also.
You may see that video on an episode of Cops if you get lucky, think of how proud your cellmates would be to have a star amongst them.

Sounds like a Triple-Dog-Dare...
I will see what I can do when she gets on the highway this spring.

Let's see, I already have a picture of the dash with the red cruise light on, and one of the speedo on 80... I got some work to do here!

[Lady72nRob71]

Originally Posted by Allan R

If you find the faceplate for less and it's good quality, could you please PM me where to get it?

If I find a source, it will be posted right here for the world to see!
(That is if the other Allan doesn't get me thrown in the slammer first...)

[Bluevista]

No Photoshop in those pics or CG in the video.

Speaking of Photochop, couldn't you just make your own sticker for that faceplate? My kids make labels with clear printer sticker sheets.
Were they silkscreened originally?
I was peering at a faceplate through the high powered microscope in my underground laboratory for hours. I have not yet formulated a theory or reached any conclusions on the lettering's molecular composition and atomic structure, not to mention the mysterious application technique, more tests.

The hippies had their silkscreening room next to wood shop in high school and it was a constant war between us wood shop dudes and them. We did have one token hippie who made a bong on the lathe with an old bowling pin.

I may try making a sticker for the Vista Cruiser, I'll even make extras, but they'll say "R.WINDOW UP-DN".

[Lady72nRob71]

Originally Posted by amh555

Speaking of Photochop, couldn't you just make your own sticker for that faceplate? My kids make labels with clear printer sticker sheets.
Were they silkscreened originally?I may try making a sticker for the Vista Cruiser, I'll even make extras, but they'll say "R.WINDOW UP-DN".

I am sure a good clear sticker would work, but we would need the brushed aluminum plate also. Mine has yellowed over the years and will not clean up. I wonder if it could be scotchbrited? After then the sticker can be used as the letters would be gone then. (They were silkscreened.)
The plates from Fusick (and others i am sure) say 3M on the paper you peel off. I am not sure if only the adhesive is 3M or the whole plate.
I have not seen the VC rear window plate but it may be next; I have just now seen the cruise one...

[Lady72nRob71]

Now just into February, the last of the cruise parts arrived. While mainly after just a servo bracket, Classic Olds member J-Chicago offered me a variety of related parts, including the bracket, at a very fair price. There was the servo bracket with a bonus servo on it, carb linkage, and a throttle dashpot was cleaner than mine. The linkage would be stored away as a spare.

Beneath the grunge was a rare servo that still had quite a bit of life left in it! It held a vacuum, despite its appearance. The rubber was in good shape with no cracks. I am more than happy to say the least! My costly NOS servo can stay inside for a while!
So after a couple hours of wire brushing, washing, scrubbing, and dremeling, the parts showed their good side.


Special attention was given to the sealing surfaces of the servo to prevent leaks. I can use a sealer upon assembly if needed.
I will paint the brackets semi gloss black and will paint the dashpot and servo pan with metal-look “aluminum” paint.
The latter two look good now, but their original plating is gone in places and rust will quickly set in without painting.

The rubber was GENTLY scotchbrited with warm soapy water to remove the brown residue that old rubber gets.
-- Is there a protectant I can use on it that will not harm the rubber, prevent it from drying out more AND not attract dust and dirt? The popular interior spray stuff is probably out. Silicon sparay maybe?
One thing that did jog my mind was how similar the rubber bellows resemble a cheapo sink plunger cup. Hmmm; I wonder if one of those could be modified to work in a pinch…

[Bluevista]

Looking good Rob, be even better if it works.

The manual says to use silicone on that sealing edge if it leaks, mine has a plate on both ends and some pitting so I ran a tiny bead in the sealing groove before assembly to play it safe. That Land Rover bellows from the U.K. only works when I drive on the wrong side of the road though?

Were you able to fix the dump valve and get it to seal? Have to find find an 89-93 furd type to compare.

[Lady72nRob71]

Originally Posted by Bluevista

Looking good Rob, be even better if it works.
Were you able to fix the dump valve and get it to seal? Have to find find an 89-93 furd type to compare.

Thanks Allan...
I ~think~ I fixed the dump valve for now, but I need to see how it will be after the car is driven. I put a couple coats of POR15 clear inside it to decrease the hole size slightly to offset the shrunken O-ring. It seals well now but only time will tell.
I have not been able to find a 0.1" x 0.2" O-ring anywhere...

[J-(Chicago)]

Looks good Rob. I won't be needing my cruise control at the drag strip anyway
Glad you could use it.
I have too many boxes of NOJ here as it is. (New old junk)

[wmachine]

Rob please tell me you have a Plano Tackle Box[/quote]

Sorry for the OT, but why a Plano tackle box, guys? (Yes, I have one too.)

[Eric Anderson]

Originally Posted by wmachine

Sorry for the OT, but why a Plano tackle box, guys? (Yes, I have one too.)

Check his location.

[Lady72nRob71]

Originally Posted by Eric Anderson

Check his location.

Right!
This makes me feel secure. Should I ever be out fishing, fall in the lake, and drown, the EMS would know where to send the body!
Remember, a lot of us southern TX guys do not have little ID cards; we use our belt buckles. The EMS may not think of that though...

[Bluevista]

Originally Posted by Lady72nRob71

Right!
This makes me feel secure. Should I ever be out fishing, fall in the lake, and drown, the EMS would know where to send the body!
Remember, a lot of us southern TX guys do not have little ID cards; we use our belt buckles. The EMS may not think of that though...

I have a Plano box too, would EMS send my body there if I fell in the drink?
I think they make Rubbermaid around here but never seen a city named that in the area?
I've heard of chambermaids but what does a rubbermaid do?
I have heard they're very flexible employees.
See ya' soon Rob, I'm going to grab my Plano box and jump in the lake for writing that.

[Lady72nRob71]

Originally Posted by Bluevista

I have a Plano box too, would EMS send my body there if I fell in the drink?
I've heard of chambermaids but what does a rubbermaid do?

You guys from up north probably use an ID card...
I won't comment on the role of the rubbermaids...