Ignition - won't start

[justinj]

Having a problem with my ignition.

It's a '62 Super 88 with a 394, and earlier this year I swapped out the points with the "Breakerless SE" system http://www.lectriclimited.com/breakerless_se.htm The ignition has worked fine since I installed the system back in the spring. At the same time, I replaced the cap, plugs & wires. Coil is new from last year.

The other night I was adjusting the engine timing and got the engine running well, but not perfect, so I was turning the distributor, checking the timing, etc. and then at some point I just couldn't get it to turn over anymore. Made the same clicking noise I would get if the battery was really low.

Looked under the distributor cap and rotor, and it looked like the ground wire between the breaker plate was getting pretty frayed. So I got some new wire and soldered it to the breaker plate.

Reinstalled the distributor, checked ground on the breaker plate to where I screwed in the ground wire, looked fine, but still nothing...

Replaced the Breakerless SE system with the old points and condensor, still nothing... Went to the auto parts shop and picked up a new rotor (hadn't replaced it in the spring), replaced the points with the Breakerless system, still doesn't turn over.

I wasn't sure anymore which way the rotor was supposed to be pointing, so I cranked the engine with a wrench to TDC and pointed the rotor towards the #1 plug, and still won't turn over.

Anyway, all the above, and still got just the same clicking noise with the idiot lights going on, etc.

Would appreciate any suggestions on what I do from here.

-Justin

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by justinj

Having a problem with my ignition.

I wasn't sure anymore which way the rotor was supposed to be pointing, so I cranked the engine with a wrench to TDC and pointed the rotor towards the #1 plug, and still won't turn over.

Anyway, all the above, and still got just the same clicking noise with the idiot lights going on, etc.

Would appreciate any suggestions on what I do from here.

-Justin

If by "won't turn over" you mean that the starter motor won't crank the engine, then the distributor has nothing to do with it. Check battery, cables, ignition switch, and ultimately the starter motor.

[justinj]

Yeah, that's what I mean, it's not cranking at all. I'm turning the key in the ignition, and I get nothing except a click. Have checked that the coil is supplying power to the distributor with a test light and it looks ok.

I'm wondering if I pulled something loose when I was turning the distributor to adjust the timing.

I will charge the battery fully overnight, but how do I check the starter motor

Cheers,

Justin

[Oldsguy]

It sounds like you are describing that the starter motor will not turn. First thing to consider is battery condition, if you have a way to take it to a parts supply shop and have it checked you should. If the battery is good you then should check the condition of the cable from the battery to the engine ground (near the front of the block usually) and from the other terminal to the starter motor. Look for corrosion, a feeling that the cable is not as rigid (more mushy) in one area as the rest, usually near the cable ends; and also the connectors themselves, are they in good condition, clean and gripping the battery terminals well (if top post type). Finally, if all that is good, you may have a bad starter motor, you can also remove it and have it checked at most parts supply places.

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by justinj

Yeah, that's what I mean, it's not cranking at all.

The only way the ignition could be related to this problem is if the timing is too far advanced. Double check that, but my money is in something other than the distributor.

[justinj]

Actually, thinking about this, I had this problem once and a while back in the spring, but it would seemingly fix itself. Ground issue from bat maybe? The cable has certainly seen better days.

I will try ALL your suggestions over the next couple of days.

-Justin

[redoldsman]

I am going with a bad starter solenoid. I remember back in the day when the starter on several of my GM products would start clicking. Usually you could try the ignition switch enough times and it would finally start. It would progressively get worse until it would not start at all. I bet the timing in fooling with the distributor is totally coincidental. Joe and Oldsguy gave you good advice about checking all the connections which is a good idea considering the car is 46 years old. My cars were not that old and neither was I. I wish I could be that young again. If it is just a solenoid, you will probably have to go to NAPA to get one since the auto supermarkets will only want to sell you a rebuilt starter. Let us know how this comes out.

[justinj]

Got home, cleaned the posts on the battery and guess what?

It cranked.

Very happy but feeling stupid at the same time! Thanks all for your advice.

-Justin

[Oldsguy]

Not a problem, don't be embarrassed. As someone once said on this site, our daily drivers get the least attention and we sometimes overlook the preventive maintenance items that are considered "gotchas", we all are guilty.

[justinj]

Hmm. Now I'm having a hard time getting the engine to start. The starter motor is cranking, but after all I did I'm thinking I moved the crankshaft around, plus I'm no longer sure of which way the rotor was pointed in the distributor.

Is there a starting point for all this? The shop manual says to get to TDC, make sure the rotor is pointed to cylinder #1, which I think I've managed. Still having problems.

-Justin

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by justinj

Hmm. Now I'm having a hard time getting the engine to start. The starter motor is cranking, but after all I did I'm thinking I moved the crankshaft around, plus I'm no longer sure of which way the rotor was pointed in the distributor.

Is there a starting point for all this? The shop manual says to get to TDC, make sure the rotor is pointed to cylinder #1, which I think I've managed. Still having problems.

-Justin

You have to have the No. 1 cylinder at TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke. You may have it 180 degrees out.

[Oldsguy]

If you haven't removed the distributor, you shouldn't have trouble. Did I miss that you did that at some point? But anyway, like Joe said, if you have then you need to be sure you are on TDC of comression stroke on No.1.

[justinj]

I removed the distributor several times and forgot to check where the rotor was pointing.

Can I tell if I'm on the compression stroke if I simply remove the valve cover on the driver's side and turn the crank to TDC with a big wrench?

Sorry for the total noob question.

thanks

Justin

Originally Posted by Oldsguy

If you haven't removed the distributor, you shouldn't have trouble. Did I miss that you did that at some point? But anyway, like Joe said, if you have then you need to be sure you are on TDC of comression stroke on No.1.

[Olds64]

The piston will be at the top of the cylinder before the compression and after the exhaust stroke. The easiest way to find TDC for the #1 cylinder during the compression stroke is to have a buddy turn the engine over while you hold your finger on the spark plug hole. It is generally a good idea to remove the coil wire when you do this.

[hamm36]

If your solo trying to find the compression storke put a couple squares of TP folded up nice in the #1. It will blow out on the compression stroke.

[justinj]

That's great, I never would have thought of trying that.

Originally Posted by hamm36

If your solo trying to find the compression storke put a couple squares of TP folded up nice in the #1. It will blow out on the compression stroke.

[justinj]

Just an update... Turned out it was the starter after all. Took it up the road to a little hole-in-the-wall place that specializes in rebuilding starters and alternators, and they rebuilt it for $85.

Cranks great now!

Thanks all for your help.

-Justin