OLDSmobility

I'd like to have a windshield wiper delay setup but don't want a cheesy box or controller hanging off the bottom of my dash. Has anyone tried installing a wiper delay delay setup from a later-model GM product into an earlier ('67-ish) Olds? What parts and/or mods would be required?

joe_padavano

The late model cars use a different wiper motor with a circuit board built in. There also needs to be a rheostat in the wiper switch (or separately) that controls the speed. I don't know how easy it is to adapt the later wiper motor to an A-body. Start by looking at the 1980s B-body wiper motors, they look pretty close. Unfortunately the rheostat for the delay is built into the turn signal lever on those cars. I think the early 80s full size pickups might have had a separate rheostat on the dash.

Lady72nRob71

I would be interested in a similar "invisible" setup for adding to my '72 also.
I saw one hint of using an 80 or 81 or 82 camaro wiper switch long ago but forgot the details (did not look too promising). Need to re-research that soon...

OLDSmobility

Interesting! Check out this link:

http://www.detroitspeed.com/productp...r_kit_prod.htm

It's a little pricey, but when you consider the time and money you'd save by trying to retrofit a different GM product that might or might not work, it could be worth it to just buy a kit that appears to be a bolt-in. I sent them an e-mail requesting more info.

6inarow

This guy wrote an article about retrofitting delay wipers into classic cars. It's pretty technical but if you're feeling ambitious...

http://www.rowand.net/Shop/Tech/DelayWipers.htm

redoldsman

I actually put one of those underdash wiper delays on my 78 Delta years ago. If I remember correctly, the problem was the wipers parked every time they delayed. That is probably why these kits have a new motor.

Aceshigh

That motor is the same used on 2001-2003 Oldsmobile Aurora's, and Cadillacs.
A-1 CARDONE Part # 401029
We've been trying to find a switch to use because the motors can be had for
just $80. So that leaves about $245 for a switch, and it's gotta be able
to be made for ALOT less then that.

I need to find an electrical genius that can experiment with switches and make
one work and share the knowledge with the rest of the hot rodding community.

We've been banging our heads on this one for awhile on the Chevy forums.
$325 is a bit of coin to blow on wipers for cars that will hardly EVER see rainy conditions.

I've been strongly considering buying one just so I can dissect it and make a 2nd
for my other classic.

Bluevista

In '71 only on the Cutlass they had the optional RPO code CD3 Shift Lever Controlled Windshield Washer/Wiper. The big cars had it starting in '70, all discontinued after '71 I think.
There's a button on the end of the shift lever, if you press and release it does a sweep of the wipers, if you hold it in it washes the windshield IIRC. Not exactly a delay system but that could probably be worked in somehow with engineering by by Rob.
You also need the demand wiper motor, still availalble at Rockauto last time I looked. I know John/2blu442 has one those set-ups he's saving for a future project, otherwise I've never seen or heard of one, anybody got a pic?
The only thing that concerns me is if they have a shift lever for the tilt and regular column with the button, they are different.
Could use that button for a secret nitrous-oxide set up or a line-loc.
I claim first dibs if John ever decides to let it go.

Lady72nRob71

Or $25 at the local U-pull-it.

The total price is 105 from rockauto if you include their core charge.
So these will bolt right in to a 68-72??
If so, anyone have the wiring diagram from an Aurora service manual they can email to me? I bet these could be made to work.

The wiring of my 97 Caddy's wipers looks somewhat adapable, as it uses different set resistor values for the delay settings. However, the rain sense feature throws a monkeywrench in the works.
If the 2001-2003 non-rainsense systems do not use a variable resistor, just the right rotary switch ~might~ work.
Seeing the wiring diag in the manual would be a huge help.

The problem is that this lever is about as rare as hen's teeth. Have you found me one, yet?

joe_padavano

The delay wiper motor on my 84 Custom Cruiser looks a lot closer to being a bolt-in for the original motor. Wiring is trivial. You just need the rheostat switch. The 1981 Chevy pickup wiper switch looks like this - it slides for off, low, and high, and you turn the **** for intermittent speed control. Rotate the switch 90 degrees and it probably could be made to work in a 70-72 car.

OLDSmobility

I'll admit I'm not electrical genius, so excuse me if I ask a couple dumb questions here. I was reading the link that 6inarow posted above, and the writer of that article mentions that GM uses the switch as a grounding switch and not necessarily a power on/off switch. Does that mean that using a non-GM setup (like maybe from the Ford pickups, as also mentioned in that article) isn't doable?

Aceshigh

It's still an on / off switch, except instead of allowing 12V to pass through it, the 12V goes through the motor, and it's grounding the 12V circuit at the switch when it's turned on.

So unless the Ford switch is setup the same way, probably not.

joe_padavano

A couple of points. Yes, the GM wiper circuit provides +12V to the motor and the switch provides the ground. As Aces correctly noted, the switch is still an on/off switch. The problem is that the GM wiper motor uses a shunt winding to get the low speed. The high speed is a simple winding in the motor and is a very straightforward circuit. To get the low speed, there is a reverse-wound shunt winding in the motor that partly counteracts the magnetic field of the motor and slows it down. To get low speed, the wiper switch actually grounds both windings - it's not like you get high and low by using one or the other. GM used this shunt design so they could then use the shunt winding only to move the wiper arms into the park position when the switch was turned off. The shunt winding design complicates the installation of the aftermarket delay box.

Aceshigh

So are you saying if I wanted to install this $20 delay option I couldn't ??

Lady72nRob71

You could use that, but the wipers would park after each pulse if wired in the low speed circuit as intended.
Not that big a deal with a long delay, but maybe not so good on short delays.
Would cause more wear and tear on the linkages.

Not sure what would happen if you pulsed the high speed circuit - need to think about that one...

If I am able to obtain a 2001+ Aurora wiper wiring diag, i would be glad to look into what it would take to adapt it's system or if it is even feasable...

6inarow

This Diagram might have what you need. If not, I will keep looking.

2001AuroraWiperWiringDiagram.jpg

6inarow

2001AuroraWiperWiringDiagram2.jpg

Lady72nRob71

Thanks Ryan - I will check into it and see what I come up with.
Was this the only one there was or was there a separate diagram for systems without the CE1 rainsense?

6inarow

I have not come across any diagrams without CE1. I checked diagrams for the Bonneville, LeSabre and Devilles for the same era which apparently use the same motor. Bonnevilles and LeSabres for sure use the same motor. I see the Devilles referenced as the same in some places but not others.

joe_padavano

It depends on how that box works. If it's simply an on/off switch with a timer, you cannot wire it just to the low side. If you did, the wiper wouldn't be in delay mode, it would switch between low speed (when the switch in the delay box closed) and high speed (when the delay box opened). Now, there are a lot of GMs on the road with this wiper circuit, so maybe the manufacturer of that delay box has special wiring instructions for GMs. We can't know without seeing the installation instructions.

joe_padavano

Here's the generic wiper motor circuit from the 1960s. Note that at the low speed position on the switch, both the series and shunt windings are connected to ground, whereas at the high speed position, only the series winding is connected.

lweinmunson

Rob, how's this look?
On wiper motor, "E" BLK goes to ground, "B" YEL +Acc power. "H" PPL wire is high speed. "G" DK BLU and "E" GRY are the low speed and delay functions. Hooking up a 680K resistor between E and G should put it on max delay, 270K, 150K, 82K, and 39K should give you the rest of the delay settings. Straight though should give you low speed. Power to H should turn on the motor on high if combined with a non-resisting wire on G and E. You can probably ignore the rain sensor. It probably just completes a circuit when the sensor box decides that it's raining. If someone has a motor laying around, you could probably test this for about $5 with some resistors and jumper cables from Radio shack. If that's all it is, the circuit is dead simple, but putting it into a box that looks good would be the hard part.

OLDSmobility

Here's another vendor with a kit. They state it's for '68-'72 Chevelle. I haven't compared Olds with Chevy...how different are the motor mountings? (Since the Detroit Speed says their kit fits all A-body, I'll tentatively assume that the two are the same.)

http://www.newportwipers.com/product...pers&make_id=1

Unfortunately, this doesn't help me in my quest to add intermittent wipers on my '67, but it might help others out.

Lady72nRob71

Yes, the circuit is simple. Even the rainsense feature could be easily added!
The latter is what i am working on now and is the hardest part. I want mine in the dash in stock location. I was hoping for a small enough rotary switch that could be installed in a spare wiper switch bezel. I wanted a shaft small enough that an original wiper **** to be modded to fit. The ones i found are too big. These look like vintage TV tuners...
A tiny DPST button can be used for wash.
I could not find a 3 deck, 8 position switch (don't need 'mist') but 12 position ones are more common and would add more delay setting when the resistors are spaced closer together.
I wish I had a motor to experiment with, as I am wondering if the second deck can be left off, as it is mainly used for the auto headlights on when wipers are on feature. It is still connected to the motor, so it ~might~ be needed...


Basically it is just a DPDT relay being pulsed by an adjustable timer. It can be wired to pulse to ground or to 12V. I installed one in my Pinto - the best accessory I ever added, aside from the radio...
I vaguely remember a way to make the relay on time longer for cars with depressed wipers. If too fast, it would just unpark and repark over and over.
Not sure if I still have the actual instructions - will try to look...

lweinmunson

If it wasn't for the fact that "high" needs 2 signals, a standard rotary pot from infinity to 0 resistance would give you pretty much infinite delay from off to low in a small package. It may end up being easier to use some kind of PLC in an under dash box to handle it all with a simple switch in the stock hole.

joe_padavano

Well, that and the fire extinguisher.

matt69olds

Lets take this one step further, could you swap steering columns from a later car, one that has wiper controls on the turn signal stalk? Then it would be a fairly simple mods to install cruise control and delay wipers using mostly factory GM parts.

6inarow

I have read somewhere that an early 90s Bravada steering column will work in an A-Body. I have no idea about the details of this swap.

joe_padavano

Of course, then you have to do something with the extra hole in the dash for the wiper switch.

lweinmunson

My dash has enough holes, I don't think I'd notice another. On the other hand, you could put the flamethrower switch there.

69OldZman

Ok guys, I haven't read each post very closely, but I'm in a hurry to contribute, so sorry if I've posting something a second time.
My dad's 1979 Delta 88 has intermittent wipers that isn't on the stalk. Here is what the switch looks like and costs on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Winds...#ht_1477wt_939

Perhaps this will help?

matt69olds

Can anyone in readerland confirm the wiper motor in the Detroit Speed is a 2001-2003 Aurora and Cadillac part? Will it bolt on to a 68-72 A-body? Any other information?

Goldhawg

Resurrecting an old thread--I'd love intermittent wipers in my 71 Cutlass; anybody figure out how to do this? I have the dash out right now doing an AC system swap, perfect time to do it. Any successes out there?

doc

anyone?

Frank3

How about using the intermittent switch from Newport Wipers with the stock motor ?
http://www.newportwipers.com/optacc.php

Lady72nRob71

Maybe with some mods an or extra circuitry. This was designed for their own motors which are probably different than the later Olds'.

JHunter

Hey guys, thought I'd chime in. I expect to get flamed because this is my first post, but I have a solution that allows you to use a modern GM wiper motor. PM me and I'll provide additional info.

joe_padavano

Welcome. No flames (well, other than you chose to respond to a three year old thread... ), but why the secret? Just post your solution here.

Goldhawg

I went with the DSE and majorly unhappy with it. Lots of problems on install and now the intermittent part has the blades up in the middle of the windshield when it pauses. Would definitely not do again.

JHunter

Thanks Joe! Yeah, nothing like reviving a long dead thread lol.

I'm a member over on Pro-Touring.com and a couple other forums, and I had seen a lot of guys trying to figure out how to use a wiper motor out of a Cadillac (which everyone has kind of figured out is the motor in the system mentioned earlier in this thread) and I saw lots of guys starting threads about how they were going to figure it out, but never seemed to come up with anything. I kinda took on that challenge, studied the wiring schematics of the GM wiper motor and factory switch and figured out how to make a rotary switch that would work.

The "secrecy" comes in because I had several guys on other forums asking me to make one for them, so I ordered enough components to make a batch of 10 and sold out pretty quickly. I got some feedback from them on what they thought was a fair price, figured out I could make it for less than that, and set a price below what they thought was fair. I'm now on my third batch of switches. I did a search the other day for "delay wiper motor" and came across this (albeit old) thread.

Using my switch, the wiper motor functions just like it did in the Caddy, 5 delay settings, low and high speed. However the switch also allows for the wiper motor to be tied into a separate windshield washer switch (no way for me to make a single switch operate the wiper motor and windshield washer pump) so that when you squirt the pump, the windshield wiper automatically turns on for a couple passes then turns off.

On the "down" side, you have to source the wiper motor and install it - but I have some basic schematics for how to do that, and I have customers that have installed the wiper motor in everything from a C-10 pickup to Novas, Camaros and LeMans. On some cars you can avoid using an adapter plate, and if you do need one (to cover the old wiper motor hole for example), they aren't elaborate and most guys whip one up pretty easily.

Soooo - that was the condensed, yet still long, story. I'm just a normal guy with a day job, working on my own car on the weekends who figured out how to make a switch work, and discovered a bit of a demand.

All that being said, I don't want to be a total hack and post a direct link to the page I made or post the price on here because counting this post, I have all of 2 posts to my credit lol. I will say that the switch I sell, plus the average cost of a used wiper motor from a Cadillac will put you at less than half the cost of the most popular system out there that uses the same motor.

Hopefully I don't **** anyone off - I know how it goes, but I at least wanted to make it available to guys on a budget.

Thanks again -
Here's a demo: