1970_442

how do i know if i have an external regulator or internal regulator for my forward lighting harness?

svnt442

If you have an actual 442 it will have in internal regulator. All others came externally regulated.

Internally regulated alternators the 2 wire plug is on the edge of the case and the terminals are oriented like this - - . On externally regulated alternators the plug is on the back and the terminals are oriented like this | | .

1970_442

i have a real 442. but the engine i got with the car is a 71 olds 455 out who knows what. i am not sure if they switched the alternator or not. now from the look of it they did. it came with a regulator mounted on the firewall, does this have to do with this or is that separate. basically who ever had the car a while back hacked it together and i believe they used it as a race car.

svnt442

What is the VIN? It is a lot of work to swap to an externally regulated alternator from and internally regulated one because the harnesses are different.
What the engine came out of is irrelevant. There would be no need to change the wiring with swapping an engine unless you were going to a different family of engine I.E. Olds to Chevy.

1970_442

34487M245 and i forgot the last three digits

svnt442

I have no clue what is up with your car. Can you get some under hood shots of the alternator and the firewall?

1970_442

from the looks of it someone before me did a poor restoration attempt. and im wondering if they put the 71 engine in with the different alternator and changed the wiring harness

1970_442

sure i will try to get some later
thanks for the help

svnt442

That will help us (me) out a lot to know exactly what you're dealing with.

joe_padavano

This is simple. Look at the two-wire connector going into the alternator. If the connector is flat, it's internal.



If it's square, it's external.

1970_442

here are two pictures from when the car was together. they aren't the best but maybe they will help some. i will hopefully get out there in a little bit to take some others.

svnt442

Well somethings not right. You don't have a good pic of the alternator but I can clearly see the regulator on the firewall.
I can't believe that someone would go through all the trouble of going back to an externally regulated alternator buy switching the harness over.
Can you get a pic of both the cowl tag and the VIN plate?

BILL DEMMER

the best way to tell what type of alternator you have is by the colors of the wires going to the alternator.
there was a transition period when they were switching/standardizing alternator cases. the case i see in the pic *looks* like a 10si case, judging by the ribs in the stator end frame. but, they used the same case, and iirc, the same connector shape - - on externally regulated alternators, during the transition period. i have one of these "transition" alternators laying around somewhere. there is no regulator inside, just a plastic spacer block to accommodate proper mounting of the brush holder assembly(10si style).


bill

bccan

http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic....ght=alternator

Check this thread - relates to Bill's post.

stellar

the case looks the same on the transition alt as the internal alt, but the plug is the same as the older 10DN alts ( ll ) using the external reg. The transition case also does not have a small raised nipple located just inside the plug hole like the internal one does. The nipple is opposite the location of the squared plug lock . The best way to determine which alt ( internal or external) is to look at the plug.

1970_442

the vin is 344870M245877

i got numbers off the alternator as well

1102439 55
2811 12VNE

also just so you know this car is the equivalent of Frankenstein. when i got it had a 71 455, th350 (idk what year or what its out of), and a 1969 gto 10 bolt posi rear. also the car has been painted blue. the original color from what i can tell was the 78 code burgundy. i found it in the factory overspray locations and behind the undercoating in the wheelhouses. but the blue is in spots i dont think they normally would have painted if they didnt take the car apart to paint. my guess is it has been apart before.
hope any of this helps
also i have a buildsheet for the car with 34487 on it. ican dig it out and take a picture if it would help.
thanks again

svnt442

That's an externally regulated alternator for sure due to the orientation of the terminals. That car came with an internally regulated alternator so at some point the harness was changed for some reason. My guess was there may have been a fire under the hood or something to warrant the change and they probably junk yarded a harness and this is what they could find.

BILL DEMMER

there is the transition alternator, externally regulated, as stated above. my bad on the terminals, was going from memory of about 20 years ago. notice the markings at the connector opening, there is both sets of terminal markings(1 & 2 and r & f). you could have that alternator rebuilt as a 10si.


bill

1970_442

is this transition alternator correct? or should it be internally regulated?

BILL DEMMER

it is not correct, you should have an internally regulated 10si alternator in there.


bill

stellar

1102439 2811 is probably 2B11 1972 february 11th Original alt for 1972 standard olds cars with AC or options or police pkg. Externally regulated

stevengerard

You also have a 71/72 drivers side fender on the car so as mentioned there may have been some damage up front at one time or another. based on your cowl tag your car was built 2nd week of January 1970 so the alternator would have a number more like 9L9 or 9M31 for a November 9, or December 31, 1969 date. I believe they skipped I for the months thus J is for September.

svnt442

You got that backwards. The drivers side fender has the raised ridges on it and the passenger side is flat. So the drivers side is a 1970 fender and the passenger side would be 1971/72.

1970_442

yes i know both fenders a re incorect. the one fenser is 70 w30 fender. i found to 70 442 fenders for it.
thnkas for the help i will start looking for an alternator then

svnt442

To make the car correct you should replace the harness and ditch the regulator on the firewall.

1970_442

did both the 442 and cutlass share the same firewall? or should i weld the holes for the regulator