My2nd 69 442

Good afternoon everyone.
I'm working on cleaning up some wiring today and I've made a rookie mistake. I've disconnected the 2 small wires on my starter and I do not know which wire goes to which terminal. 1 purple wire and 1 yellow (or tan) wire. Can some one please help me out. My CSM wiring diagram is unreadable even with a magnifier. Which color wire goes inboard closest to the block.
Purple wire had bare spots in 2 places, fixed that and tan wire had about 1 1/2 feet of excess wire, fixed that also. I'm soldering and heat shrinking the repairs I'm ready to wrap and reconnect the wires so if you can, please help. Car is a 69 442
Thanks
Jerry

jharsh

Should be a purple wire and a yellow wire.
Purple goes to "S" post.
Yellow goes to "R" post.

My2nd 69 442

Thanks Jim.
My problem is that I cannot see which post is R or S. That's why I ask for the most inboard(closest to Engine block)post.
Previous owner has painted block and covered most of the front of the starter solenoid. I stuck my I phone camera in the area and still cannot determine which post is R or S
If the wiring is the same for all GM vehicles then the R post would be the most inboard with the startermounted on the drivers side of eng. My 67 Camaro starter is mounted on Pax side of the block and R terminal is then outboard on the mounted starter.
I do appreciate your answer to my post

jharsh

Understand, Someone will correct me if I am wrong but I believe you could just put the purple wire on one of the post, and leave the yellow disconnect and out of the way. If the starter will crank when you turn the key you have the right post.

My2nd 69 442

Thanks again Jim
My starter is mounted in the car and both terminals are a bit*h to get my fat hands on,so if possible, I only want to do this once.
Hopefully someone will know for certain which post is most inboard with the starter mounted.

stellar

Outboard is Purple and probably a thicker wire.. Like the Camaro. Even if you accidentaly reverse them no harm will come, it just won't start.

joe_padavano

As you look at the end of the solenoid with the terminals, "S" is on the right

oldcutlass

Just hit each post with a 12v jumper, the one that moves the starter drive out is the S. The one that does nothing is the R
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tru-blue 442

To add, the R post is closest to the block.

My2nd 69 442

Thanks guys.
That's what I was hoping for. As previously stated, with my fat hands, I only want to do this once.
Eric do I understand you correctly that I do not need the R terminal connected at all?

MDchanic

Maybe you do, and maybe you don't, but GM was not known for wasting money on unnecessary parts.

The best test is trying to restart a hot engine on a hot day (or a very cold engine on a very cold day). If it cranks over and over before it catches, you may need the R wire connected.

You can either disconnect it and do the experiment, or connect it and not worry about it.

When I first put my engine back together, the starter solenoid I used had a defunct R terminal, and I discovered it because the car was such a bear to start when hot.

- Eric

My2nd 69 442

Thanks Eric. It will only cost the skin to connect the second wire

oldcutlass

If your running an HEI, and you have battery voltage at the distributor when cranking, then no you don't need the R wire. That wire was installed to bypass the resistance wire and provide full battery voltage to the coil for a points dist during start only. At all other times it has no function.

MDchanic

True, but maintaining the Start-mode bypass of the rest of the electrical system can never hurt, and even with HEI, considering the potential for voltage reduction through the normal running circuit, due to corrosion to components throughout the electrical system, it may help with starting under extreme temperature conditions or with a low battery.

- Eric

My2nd 69 442

Thanks to all for your comments.
I just now checked and found that the previous owner has connected the yellow wire directly to ground . I imagine that he may have done that when he installed the HEI distributor. I should have checked that when I was correcting other electrical issues that you guys helped me with. With it going to ground, I can now see no reason to reconnect it to the terminal.

MDchanic

If one end goes to the distributor and the other goes to ground, the car won't run and the wiring harness will burn.
With one end connected to the R terminal and the other end connected to ground, the the wire will burn up when you crank the starter.



- Eric

jharsh

Eric,
That is what I was about to say. Something does not sound right.

oldcutlass

And if the distributor end is connected to ground there would have been 1 or a few toasted wires. So that could not be the case either way.

My2nd 69 442

I really don't know what is happening. When I ohm the yellow wire to ground, my meter reads 0 ohm resistance which tells me it is going straight to ground. I do not have any other wires that shows any burns or damage. Whatever the case, I have capped off the yellow wire and I'll see if it will start and run when I get everything properly wrapped and all reconnected. The car ran fine with yellow connected when I bought it, but the wiring looked pretty ragged. I'll update this when I get everything back together.
Thanks for your input.

MDchanic

Where does the yellow wire go? -- What is the other end connected to?

Which end of it are you connecting the meter to?

- Eric

My2nd 69 442

I do not know where the yellow wire originates. The previous owner installed a HEI dist and I assume that he did some wiring at that point. The yellow wire is currently is currently spliced to a black wire that goes back inside the bulk head connector and I have not traced it out.
Earlier today I checked both starter wires and both (purple and yellow) have 12 VDC with key in start position. The yellow wire also has aprox .30 ohms to ground without key on.
Also I'm removing the starter as I've found the R post is loose in the solenoid.
What is the best(easiest) way to trace the yellow wire back thru the bulkhead connector.
Thanks for your advice

MDchanic

Well...

I'd say that those two characteristics are mutually contradictory.

Probably the best thing to do is to remove the screw (3/8" hex socket) and separate the bulkhead plug, then you can see which terminal the wire goes to, and determine where it's connected from there.

- Eric

My2nd 69 442

Eric I agree and I haven't figgered it out yet. Any ideas?
Now I need a new starter solenoid

oldcutlass

Why cant you tighten the post on the solenoid? I just cant see the yellow wire going back to the bulkhead connector. Its a momentary 12v signal that is only available when the starter is cranking nothing more. Check the wiring around the distributor its got to be there.

My2nd 69 442

I tightened the R post and checked starter with a spare battery and R post does not engage the starter S post does. So I figured that I screwed it up. Anyway for 20 bucks I'll replace it.
I assure you that the yellow wire is spliced to a black wire and it has 12vdc in start position and it does go onto the bulkhead connector. I'll check for voltage in run position tomorrow. I don't know why I have continuity to ground at 0.30 ohms.

joe_padavano

Which is why you need to look at the wiring diagram. The yellow wire DOES go to ground - via the coil primary winding and the points. An ignition coil works by running current through the windings (from the "R" terminal through the coil through the points to ground) and then opening the points. This collapses the magnetic field in the coil and generates the high voltage on the secondary side of the coil.

My2nd 69 442

Joe I do have and have tried using it. My copy of the CSM has diagrams that are virtually unreadable even with a 10x magnifier. I have go so far as buying a 11x17 color electronic diagram that has chassis wiring but not components. I readily admit that my electrical mind is not what it once was which wasn't great even then. If I'm asking dumb questions then "oh well" I need help. I appreciate any and all advice that I can get.
Now are you saying that with my HEI distributor can/is causing my yellow starter wire to have 0.30 ohms resistance to ground with key off?

svnt442

joe_padavano

What I am saying is that nearly every circuit in the car can have sneak paths that appear as grounds. This is normal and unless you have a high impedance ohmmeter, you will be chasing your tail. More importantly, you are making this WAAAAAY more difficult than it is. Hook the two wires back up to the starter correctly and you are done. Several posts above have told you which terminal is which, or you can type GM starter solenoid terminals into Google Images for pictures.

oldcutlass

I don't think your have any issues with your starter wiring or your ignition circuit. I believe you're chasing a problem that is not a problem.

jharsh

That is the way it should work.

My2nd 69 442

Randy Joe Eric and Jim, Thank you for your comments and advice. I fully agree concerning which wire goes to what terminal(Purple to R, Yellow to S). My concern is that last night while ops checking starter circuit, the starter Did Not Engage the starter.
I removed the starter(that was fun) rechecked power to both wires with starter removed.
Purple wire has 12+ VDC in start position only. Yellow wire has 12+ VDC in start and run position
Is this correct?
I dont want to reinstall only to find that I still have starter circuit problems.
I understand the the circuit APPEARS to work as it should, but with that being the case, Why would the starter not engage, and yes the clutch pedal was pushed to the floor.
I know I am being **** about this issue, but I would like for the car to start and run like a 442 should.
I will reinstall and connect the starter and see what happens.
And Joe my multimeter is a Fluke 77 that reads to the thousands
Thanks again to all
Jerry

MDchanic

The yellow wire that is supposed to go to the R terminal on the starter solenoid goes to the coil (+) terminal.

It does not go to a black wire in the harness, and thence through the firewall connector.

Therefore the yellow wire that you are messing with is not the yellow wire that is supposed to be there, and it should not be connected to the R terminal.
Most likely, as Eric said, the yellow wire is connected to the original ballast resistor wire, and to the RUN terminal of the ignition switch, and was used in the past to power the coil (or HEI).
Therefore, you should tape it up and leave it alone.

If you would like to run a wire (of whatever color) from the R terminal to the HEI BATT terminal, you may, otherwise, don't worry about it.

- Eric

My2nd 69 442

Good news for me today.
My 442 is back among the alive.
I installed my starter today after having it tested at my local auto parts store. Tested good with original solenoid. I carefully connected wires to proper post and now all is well. I strongly suspect that I had reversed the wires when I had previously connected them after I had repaired and re-wrapped the wires with original GM type tape.
When I was previously telling you guys about my yellow wire going to ground, it was in fact showing O ohms resistance with key off. It then (and currently) does have 12+ VDC with key on and in start position. Purple has 12+VDC in start only. Both wires are now properly connected to their respective post and all is well.
Tomorrow I get my repaired Tach/Clock back and will adjust and install that. Then I hope I'm done for awhile.
I very much appreciate the help and advice that you guys have gave me.
ClassicOldsmobile ROCKS

MDchanic

That yellow wire should not be connected to the solenoid (though I guess it won't hurt anything if you leave it).

Read my post immediately before this one.

- Eric

My2nd 69 442

Eric, I understand what you have said.
I do have the yellow wire which is directly and (the only wire I have found that does so far), spliced to a black wire that does in fact goes to the engine side bulkhead connector. That wire has 12+ VDC with key on in start only.
I dont know exactly what may be going on with it, but it seems to be working ok for me at this time with no additional drain on the system, so I'll leave it the way it is and hope that down the road that I dont have other issues.
I appreciate your help and value your advice greatly

MDchanic

... But you do understand that that is NOT where the wire connected to the R terminal is supposed to go, and that it is not supposed to carry 12V from the IGN circuit, right?

- Eric

My2nd 69 442

Yes Eric, I do understand your point, however it is working on my 442 that way and does not appear to be causing any other problems, so with my lack of electrical expertise and very sore back I'm leaving well enough alone. Should I have problems in the future, I know where I will start looking. and if not, it will be the next owners problem after I'm in the grave

My2nd 69 442

Today has been a very good day for myself and my 442. Everything is back together and fully secured. Tach and Clock works great, Engine starts and runs great. I'm a happy camper and I would like to thank all of you guys that have offered your advice and knowledge(although I didn't always follow it or understand all you offered). I'm sure that it would have taken me much longer to do all that I was attempting without your help.
Hopefully on my next project I wont need as much direction, but if I do, I know where to ask.
Thanks again guys for all your help
Jerry

oldcutlass

Glad all worked out well. Now you can enjoy it for a while.