elbole

Okay okay don't get riled up its an Olds 350 I am thinking about putting into a 55' Super 88.


Will the Olds 350 make enough power to push a 5,000+ lbs vehicle? According to Wikipedia the 80 Olds weighs in at around 4,000 lbs.


I am considering this swap because I saw this ad on Craigslist for a 1980 Olds Delta;


http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/cto/4623589226.html


According to owner the 350 has 307 heads("higher compression"), transmission with a 2500 stall kit, and 3.42 open drive rear end.


SO what are your thoughts on this potential swap?


The original 324 is acting up and I am in the process of pulling it, fixing it, but I don't know if the above deal is too good to pass up and transplanting the whole drive train....


Thanks in advance for any advice or feed back......

elbole

Bueller? Bueller?

redoldsman

It can be done but will require lots of fabrication since the engine and transmission mounts are totally different. I think you will have to mount to engine slightly off center to the right side to gain clearance for the exhaust and steering. Consider the 350 is 26 more cubic inches than the 324 that came in the car so yes it will move the car okay. At least you are considering an Olds engine and not a SBC.

joe_padavano

Yeah, my advice is to find a different motor. The stock heads on a 1980 350 would have been about 75cc chambers. 307 heads have about 64-ish cc chambers - along with smaller valves and ports. Not exactly a performance improvement. And that's assuming the P.O. used 5A heads. If these are 7A heads, then run, don't walk, away from this motor. The 1980 350s also have windowed main webs (not necessarily an issue) and large dished pistons.

elbole

Guys I appreciate the feed back. Still don't now what's really wrong w/324 so I saw this swap as an opportunity.
Maybe what you were referring to Joe is reason why this guy still has the 80 Delta:-)?

Tedd Thompson

I'm not sure what the HP is on a detuned 80' ish 350 motor but the 324 came with 204 real horse power in 55. I bet the horse power change would be just about be a push. It's been my experience that once an engine gets swapped and modifications made they seldom go back to the stock configuration. If you want to pick up a extra 100 horse power lay in a 371( few modifications) and only the avid Olds fan would know that it wasn't a stock engine, it would light up and bring life to your 55.....Tedd

joe_padavano

Somewhere in the neighborhood of 170 pavement-ripping ponies. Of course, that's net, whereas the 324 is rated at gross HP, and the 170 includes the effects of all the emissions equipment and a restrictive single exhaust. Again, what this motor really puts out will be dependent on exactly what was done to it. Also keep in mind that the 350 is about 100lbs lighter than the 324.

elbole

I really do appreciate all of your input. Yeah I'm gonna pass on the 80 delta.


I would love to keep the Rocket engine if at all possible. I was considering the 371 upgrade, bored out 324, but then I saw what some people have pored into getting 324's to 371, $4,000 and up.


This will be a week end cruiser but if I can put a lil get up and go with some mods I am all for it.


What types of modifications are you referring to Tedd? I already bought a four barrel intake to replace the two barrel. I also picked up an original '55 four barrel carb, just needs a rebuild.


Thanks again fellas.....

joe_padavano

Don't kid yourself that a swap will be appreciably cheaper. I don't know your fabrication skills, so I'll assume that you will be doing most of the work yourself. Once you buy the engine and trans, you need to fabricate new motor and trans mounts, have new exhaust pipes bent, have a driveshaft made, fabricate or buy a throttle linkage, possibly change the radiator, find new radiator hoses that fit, etc, etc. This assumes that the used motor and trans don't need any work other than new filters, oil, tuneup, and carb rebuild. You may need different or customized exhaust manifolds also.

While I realize you're talking about swapping a later Olds motor, this is the fallacy of the "I'm putting in a Chevy because it's so much cheaper" crowd. Unfortunately, since all that stuff necessary to install the non-original motor gets bought piecemeal, the total price is never added up. Your Olds swap will be the same. Expect a lot of nickel-and-dime costs. Do this swap because you want to, not because you think it's less expensive than building your original motor. Of course, if you have to pay someone to do the work, the price of the swap goes up dramatically.

elbole

I knew some of the things a swap would entail but never thought beyond mounts etc. I totally see your point. My fabbing skills are just okay so I'd be biting off way more than I could chew.
Just hoping that there is no major surprises (issues) with 324 when I open her up. Thanks again for the reality check.

redoldsman

Unfortunately, old cars are full of surprises. I have always used the rule of figure what you think your required time and money are going to be and then double both. I hope you do better.

Tedd Thompson

I was thinking more as if you found a running 371 and installed it in your car, but even then there are things that would have to be done. Your 324 is internally balanced and the 371 is externally and the flywheel flex plates from a slant pan transmission and a jetaway are different, small problems compared to a complete generation engine swap though......Tedd

elbole

I think I'm just going to stick w/the 324 come hell or high
Water. No mods and with the four barrel it'll get a lil more umph...

Also may consider putting headers on it as well...

redoldsman

If your car has power steering, beware that dual exhaust is going to be close to impossible. I believe Tedd has duals on his but mine are just fake. Does Ross Racing have headers?

Tedd Thompson

Headers are a problem, no one has made aftermarket headers for many years unless Ross has just started and if the old ones do come up for sale there is a bidding war. Duals are doable but they are best done in a good muffler shop with a guy who has the patience of Jobe with a good pipe bender and he likes you. There is this problem with the vacuum booster which lies along the left hand frame rail where you would normally put the left hand exhaust pipe that makes this conversion a pain but many people have done this but it's no piece of cake. When you start talking speed equipment for a fifties car you are talking cubic dollars. My advise is just make a cool cruiser and let you and anyone that sees it enjoy it for what it is, nostalgia on four wheels ... Lost in the fifties ...Tedd

joe_padavano

Actually, Ross Racing Engines specializes in performance parts for the first gen Olds V8 motors.

Tedd Thompson

Ross does (Toney) and his stuff is good but they aren't cheap.

elbole

Guys I've seen headers on ebay for $300 and there's a guy on another site that has em for the same cost....I was looking under the car yesterday and it seems that theres a straight shot back for pipe to run along side frame(on drivers side), even a lil empty notch to hang pipe. If you've done it Tedd then you know better than I do. Is your vacumm canister on left(outside) of frame rail or right? At this point in the game I just want to make sure 324 will run soundly so I can finally cruise the damn thing again.....


Red I'll prolly to do fake lake pipes on it down the road....well at least one side will be fake lol.....

redoldsman

I forgot about the vacuum tank for the power brakes. That is probably because I never got past the power steering. You will also have to cut the X frame to put the muffler on the left side. I decided it was too big a pain and as Tedd said, it is just a cruiser. I have one Smitty on the right side and the left tailpipe actually ties into the other one in front of the gas tank. It actually sounds just about right. If I were doing it today, I would put a Porter muffler on it. They are steel packs and very well made. They are about twice the price of Smitty's. Here is the link:

http://portermufflers.com/

elbole

Thanks for the Porter information. Yup the muffler on it now looks wore out so it'll need replacing to....

elbole

Redoldsman did you install the exhaust yourself? Just want to know any tricks if you know any.....

Thanks

Tedd Thompson

If you have power brakes your vacuum booster will be along side of the frame rail You can't miss it it's about 24 inches long and 4 inches in diameter. If you decide to make this adaption don't drop the exhaust below the frame or you will be dragging it over every speed bump you encounter. You will have to punch a hole in the x frame, thats not so much of a big deal but there will be twist and turns throughout the pips trip till you reach the rear bumper many trial and error attempts will happen. Would I do it again, you bet, sounds better than what I imagined it would ....Tedd

redoldsman

No I did not. I have a good local muffler shop. I suggest finding one. If I left the car with them, they could do the real duals. I might do that one day but it really is not that important. If you do the Porter mufflers, let us know. I don't think you could ever wear one out. I have a 57 Chevy that I will do one of these years and it will have them.

Tedd Thompson

Her is a link on a really fine 55 98 convertible that has duals if you scrol down to the small pictures at the bottom of the page and check out how this guy did his, not like mine but this is a 98 with a little more room to maneuver...Tedd http://www.rkmotorscharlotte.com/sal...l7AodKCgAwA#!/

elbole

Tedd my friend you are a wonderful resource! The undercarriage of that 98 is immaculate! I actually found living bugs in the muck that was on my A arms lol.

Just curious but does your car have the same Vacuum tank set up as the 98? The 98's tank is inside the rail....My 88 has the tank on the outside of the frame rail. Maybe it was relocated by a PO?

Tedd Thompson

I've only seen them on the inside rail and I would think they are to large around and to long to reside on the outside but I guess someone could have done something like that with a smaller tank, don't know seems strange but maybe doable, very interesting....Tedd

Tedd Thompson

Here is a link from a place that indeed is making headers for the first generation Olds motors, I was wrong before. this could open up many possibilities for dual exhaust on these engines learned something today.....Tedd..http://noxiouscustoms.com/Stockies.html

SummerNights

I saw those headers awhile back and too thought they would help with doing dual exhaust but looking at the car today made me think otherwise... Seems like a lot of money and still to have the same problem, I'm thinking use stock manifold and make a tight 180° bend then going thorough the nightmare of the starter and steering box. Probably need to heat wrap the starter too. That's my idea...

Also about the swap have you considered keeping the 324 and doing some head machining and bigger cam?

elbole

Tedd,

I 'll take a pic of my 55's vacuum tank's placement....yes I've seen noxious' headers
On ebay....

$300 is not bad huh? Another guy on thehamb fabs em too....priced at around $300 as well...but he's booked solid for the next two months.

johnnyjaws

if its not a 72 or below crush it

Tedd Thompson

Here is a link for a 324 valve and head job that will let it breath better( common issue on these engines) and something I would consider if I was planning on using a high lift cam.Not much sense putting in a big cam if the gas can't get in and the exhaust can't get out..... Tedd

elbole

Summer,

Great minds think alike, I was just looking at the steering box and gear and figured the same, have a heck of a bend to go up and over then down. As far as the swap goes I am not going to do it, sticking with 324. What kind of cam would work? The video Tedd sent me is from a machine shop not too far from home, 2 hrs Norte....

Vacuum tank:

As promised here are a few shots of the underside of car focusing on Vacuum tank location, If I had to guess someone did this mod many many years ago(notice notches cut into body mount) to accomadate a dual exhaust. The original motor that shop "lost" wasn't dual exhaust as far as I can remember.....I was around 10 years old when that happened(machine shop closing with 324). So maybe the engine original to super 88 was dual and Olds factory made the relocation???