White Spyder

Being new to this type of convertible I thought it might be good to get a thread going with photos of working on these unique tops. Also any tips and maintenance pointers would be good.

The first problem I encountered was the top quitting in the middle of operation. This posed an issue as I was many miles from home and it was sticking straight up in the air. The quick solution to get back on the road was to disconnect the drive cables and manually operate the top. There is one on each side just behind the corners of the rear seat. Simply unscrew the cable and pull from the housing on each side. Be careful the top is very heavy and you should do this with 2 people.

When I got home I used cable lube on the cables and white lithium on the gear box.

White Spyder

After my top got stuck in the up position, i needed to find out the cause. A search of this site and the internet pointed to 3 possible culprits. The switch needing cleaning, the relay or the motor. As mine would run for a few moments then quit I suspected the relay over heating or the motor. To get to both the back seat bottom and back need to be removed.

First photo shows the seat bottom in place. The anchors are about 1/4 inboard from either side of the car.

Second photo is of the anchor. push in along the bottom edge of the seat on each side and lift up to remove the seat. (I found about $2 worth of coins and a bunch of leaves under mine)

Third photo is of the latching point for the seat back. They are about 1/4 inboard from the top corners. Push in and down along the top edge while pulling out. The back can be pulled forward to access the motor and relay but can nor be removed unless you remove the seat belt tensioners as it is bolted to them.

Last photo is of the relay and motor in place.

White Spyder

Removal of the relay is just one nut. To remove the motor you must carefully pry up the rubber isolators. This will give you access to where the drive cables are connected to the transmission. unscrew them and you can remove the motor. Once out you can test the relay and the motor. I also disassembled the transmission the check it. It was in goos shape so I cleaned out the old grease, put in some fresh grease and put it all back together.

First photo shows rubber isolators removed and cables.

other photos are of the disassembled transmission.

D. Yaros

While your reference to "this type of convertible" may be obvious to some/most, it is not to me. Consequently, it would be a big help to the ignorati if you specified what year and model Olds you are talking about here. Thanks!

White Spyder

Scissor top convertibles are "B" body cars from '71-'76. Mine is a '75 Delta 88 Royale.

jaunty75

Royale.





Meaningless word, as far as I know and just meant to sound upscale, but it does have an E on the end. There was both Delta 88 and a Delta 88 Royale, and the convertible was available only in the Royale line.

Back then, the upper-level line meant nothing when it came to standard features. You could have ordered a very highly optioned Delta 88, with power everything, 455 engine, the works. You could also have ordered a very stripped Delta 88 Royale (or even a 98) with manual windows and locks, no A/C, AM-only radio (or maybe no radio at all), and so forth. The only thing that "Royale" meant was a bit more chrome and polish, perhaps more upscale fabric choices for the interior, and a stylized "R" on the door panels.

I had one of these once myself. Owned it from 1994 to 2001 before selling it to help pay for my children's college educations.

I was fortunate in that I never had a problem with the top mechanism. Here's a photo from about 1996 when cameras still had film in them.





By the way, Dodge made a Royal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Royal

White Spyder

Thanks, I fixed it.

MDchanic

Great pics of the motor disassembled.
When I took mine apart, I found a piece of a wave washer (spring-steel Euro lockwasher) jammed in between the armature and the rotor.

I would just add that the rubber isolators are likely to fail when you try to remove them, but that replacements are available from the usual aftermarket rubber suppliers.
You can also substitute screws, washers, and nuts (with extra nuts as spacers where the rubber would have been) if you don't have the rubber things handy.
I bought all new isolators before I took mine apart. Then I lost them. I used screws to put it back together, and it works fine and doesn't seem particularly noisy (found them when it was all together, of course ).

Also, the relay can be disassembled and cleaned, and is the same one as the one used under the seat for the power seats.
Since it is used in some part of a Corvette, replacements are over $50.
It can also be completely replaced by modern relays (which will work better and last longer), as described here.



- Eric

jaunty75

Thanks. I can sleep better now.

D. Yaros

Thanks for the definition. I take it "scissor top" is not a technical term? I say this as, I sure do not see, understand or appreciate how the convertible top of the 71-76 era differs from the one on my 1962 B body Dynamic 88?

MDchanic

"This type of Convertible" refers to the "Scissor Top" mechanism referred to in the title of the thread, "Scissor Top R&R."
The cognoscenti know that already.

There is no technical term.
"Scissor top" is the universally applied practical term.

It differs like this:



The rear side arms, from their lower pivot inside the trunk, to up over the rear windows, are actually split into two pieces. When the top goes down, the inside pieces pivot inward, toward the center of the car, taking the forward side arms inward with them, thus pulling the top up and back.
The two sets of side arms cross each other as they go down, in a manner reminiscent of a pair of scissors (and, I'd say, more than reminiscent if you got your hand caught in there), and end up crossed over each other behind the rear seat, rather than stacked on either side of the rear seat, as in a conventional convertible.

- Eric

White Spyder

Work got in the way for the past few days.

I need some help in testing the top motor without the relay. It has a ground wire that went to the frame, positive to power and 2 others that must control the direction the motor turns.

To test the motor do I use the positive to the hot side of the battery and the negative to one of the 2 that control the motor direction while not using the ground that normally attaches to the frame of the car?

MDchanic

NO0O0O0O0O0O0O!!!!!!

To test the motor:

• Ground wire to Negative,
• Red wire AND ONE directional wire BOTH to Positive AT THE SAME TIME.

Otherwise, you'll burn it up.



- Eric

White Spyder

Thanks! I also found this out by chatting with the folks from Convertible Parts on the phone.

D. Yaros

Thanks a bunch. As they say, "A picture is worth a 1,000 words." I clearly see the difference now. I have learned something new. Appreciate it!

MDchanic

Any time!

Helping the ignorati is what this site is all about .

How's it feel to be one of the cognoscenti?

- Eric

White Spyder

Bench tested the top motor and it runs great in both directions. Ordered an new relay today.

White Spyder

New relay was installed. Lubed the gear boxes on each side with white lithium grease along with the joints in the top frame near them. I used a graphite lube on th other pivot points and the top lowers and raises like new!

jaunty75

Excellent! Glad to hear it.

ent72olds

Good info! Thanks for taking the time to share!