84oldsDelta88

today the check engine light came on and when i checked it it was 1 flash pause 3 flashes code 13, if anyone seen my most recent post my tcc isnt engaging automatically well i thought the oxygen sensor was bad and i only bought this o2 sensor like 2 monthes ago, i tried a different one with the same results, i have a air fuel ratio guage which now it always reading close to or on lean, before it was pretty much the middle, i tried unplugging the battery for several hours to see if it was reset the computer and try and again but its still doing it, it was working fine until i went down a flooded road where the water level almost came up to the doors, the underhood mat was soaked, any ideas guys?

J-(Chicago)

All of the code numbers are listed in the 1984 chassis service manual. Maybe someone on here has one. Mine is 1980, and of no help.

Lady72nRob71

First, here is a link to help you with the computer codes and other cool 307 related info:
http://tlentz.oldsgmail.com/howto.html

Code 13 is O2 sensor. I hope you used an AC Delco part, as other brands for this engine have been known to be flakey.

Check all your vac lines to make sure nothing came off when you hit the water, as it is now running lean.

A couple things that can be semi-related is water getting in the AIR pump or the VAC sensor (on plastic fenderwell) going bad. It could be sending false data to the computer, causing it to do strange things. I had this issue with my 86 - the VAC sensor triggered a code 13. I hear the TPS could affect this code also. I hate computers...

The TCC will not lock up if the computer is not happy, so this 13 issue needs to be corrected first.

A factory service manual will be a great tool to have if you plan on keeping the car for a while.

Lady72nRob71

Here is how to check the "open O2 sensor" code 13 fault.
You will need a dwell meter connected to the unused terminal by the card (green I think)




Hope this helps some; I am not good at car computer troubleshooting...

84oldsDelta88

well i dont have a dwell meter at the moment, i hooked my volt meter to the 14 and 9 connector i drove around while watching the volt meter reading on the floor it was going low and high for a while i decided to go back home and get longer wires so i can watch it while driving, with the car fully warmed up at first i was getting 0.42 volts from the o2 sensor, then as the o2 sensor heated up i was getting almost a steady reading of 0.45 volts to 0.47 volts, at WOT it would jump up anywhere from 0.50 volts to 0.56 volts, so what you guys think, my ecu or the o2 sensor?, i only bought the o2 sensor like 2 monthes ago and yes it was an acdelco i tried the bosch in the past and they'd always fail around 6000 miles, when i went through the flooded street do you think the water could of killed the o2 sensor or the computer?

84oldsDelta88

well i just got back from another test drive and now i got a code 34 vacuum sensor or the map sensor is what it says in my book, i guess i should try and get a new map sensor

84oldsDelta88

hey lady72nrob71
can you post a picture of the page that handles the map sensor wiring and such to the ecu, i need to know what pin to probe thanks

70 cutlass s

I have a question for you. How is the car running any problems. Is it running fine or is it having problems idling or anything.

Lady72nRob71

Wow - this failure trend is following the course of my 86's very closely...
First 13, now 34.... I wonder if the TPS one will come up.

Make sure you do have vacuum to the hose that goes to the sensor. Alos, put a clean stu of hose on the sensor and very gently suck on it to verify it is holding vacuum. Actually, you can do that with engine running and see what the readings do....

Here is the diags page. I hear the ECU is pretty robust and rarely fails. I have a feeling it will be sensor related.

84oldsDelta88

its running ok for the most part except i have no automatic lock up and gas mileage is very poor, idling seems fine i guess,



yea i checked vacuum at the map sensor, i pulled the vacuum line off and the engine started to run like crap but runs normal when plugged in, so vacuum is good, i checked voltage at the connectors and the signal wire is putting out about near 5 volts at idle but when i push the throttle it'll drop and then go back up, oh yeah you had a similar problem? how did you fix it, was it the map sensor? im running out of ideas here on what to fix first i thought it was the o2 sensor now i got the code 34 which is telling me the map sensor is putting out a high voltage so maybe the water got in/on it and killed it? is it possible for water to kill a map sensor?
i did check out the tps sensor and its working like it should, the voltage goes up and down as i push the throttle in and out so its working,

Lady72nRob71

I replaced the O2 on mine and it did not fix it.
It ended up going to the dealer to have the O2 code diagnosed. They ended up replacing the TPS, and this VAC sensor. The said they failed all in a row. Not sure on the truth in this, but they fixed it - for a long while anyway...

Did you test the VAC sensor with key on, engine stopped?
Is the engine idling kinda high? Mine did, as the plunger that controls the idle speed would not retract when the computer was unhappy.

Rockauto has the sensors if you need them.

84oldsDelta88

ok i checked the wires 20 map singal wire and 22 ground at the computer, when started and running i was getting about a little under 5 volts when i would rev it a little the value on the volt meter would drop nad then come back up

Lady72nRob71

Did you test the VAC sensor with key on, engine stopped?
It should be 0.5 to 0.64V. Let me know what you get...

84oldsDelta88

ok just got back from the junkyard went and pulled a couple map sensors, i tried the key on engine off and the map sensors voltage was 0.55, the junkyard map sensor was at 0.51-0.52 volts, i cleared the computer codes and drove home with the junkyard map sensor plugged in, i got the check engine light i pulled over and checked the codes, i got code 13 again but no code 34 now, so i'm guessing the map sensor is ok now, i was gonna pull an o2 sensor from the yard but all the ones there were siezed in the manifold or fouled up really bad

Lady72nRob71

Okay, the last thing to do is check the TPS. If it is giving a false reading, other codes can occur. I will try to remember to get pics of the manual pages and post tomorrow AM.

In the mean time, see if the instructions in this link will get you started:
http://tlentz.oldsgmail.com/howto.html#TPS

It is an adjustment procedure, but it tell you how to test it on the car.
Basically, it is 0.48 at idle and 4.5V at WOT. A fast idle would be about 1V or less.
If less than 0.45 at idle, you will get a code 22. (I get that now).

Is the idle speed plunger pulling off?

Rockauto has O2's for about 20 bucks - not bad to try and have as a spare.

84oldsDelta88

ok i checked the tps voltage it was about 0.58 volts and when i pushed the pedal to wot it was like 3.86 volts and if i went under the hood and pulled the throttle level all the way back it would go to 4.15 volts

Lady72nRob71

If the 0.58 was taken at true idle, then it is a bit high. If the plunger is not retracting and not bringing the idle to normal, the 0.58 sounds right. However, the high side is a bit low. I will post scans of the manual pages tomorrow. If you need them tonight, email me (ry_ry75081@yahoo) as I cannot access this site from my home network.

84oldsDelta88

i was doing this whole test with key on engine off btw

84oldsDelta88

well even though this post is old i jut wanted to add that the car is fixed my friends dad had an o2 sensor for a gm truck and surprisingly it works with my delta, my gas milage shot up like a rocket, i got my lock up converter back, and no more code 13

Lady72nRob71

Cooling the old sensor from 600* to water temperature in a few seconds most likely broke it internally.
Glad it is fixed! What specific truck was it for (just curious)?

84oldsDelta88

im pretty sure he said the o2 sensor came from a 1988 chevrolet s10 pick up, i think it was the o2 sensor for the 2.5L 4 cylinder or the 2.8L v6, but i looked it up and apparently the s10 uses the same acdelco afs22 o2 sensor, but on the o2 sensor wire is a tag with i guess the part or model number its 25347725 but i cant cross reference it with anything or find it on google