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Old June 30th, 2009, 07:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
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1967 Delta 88 convertible

Hello.

I just today (June 30) took possession of a '67 Delta 88 convertible, yellow with a brown interior and a black top. Odometer says 129,000, which I think is correct. Much about the car, though, belies this mileage. The chrome and trim are excellent (for the most part), and the interior, which I think is original, is immaculate. The top is also in excellent shape. But the car needs lots of little stuff (especially new weatherstripping almost everywhere), and that's what the fun is all about.

I bought it from an 80 year old man who lives about 50 miles away and who bought it himself less than two years ago, at the age of 78, just to drive him and his wife of 60 years around in. (They got married young.) Unfortunately, she is now ill enough that she cannot go out, and he is getting well up there himself, so it was time to sell, and that's where I came in. (He also has a '48 Ford he's looking to sell. I know nothing about it except that he's asking around $5K for it.) His son-in-law posted the car on craigslist, and I saw it the same day just about a week ago.

While this car is new, to me, I'm not new to the hobby. I bought a '64 Jetstar 88 in 1991 and then a '75 Delta 88 convertible (red, white interior, white top, from Florida--I'm in Ohio, just gorgeous) in 1994. Not really having room for two collector cars, I sold the Jetstar in 1996, and then I literally got an offer too good to refuse on the '75, so I sold it to a fellow from Chicago in 2001. That was good timing, anyway, as the children were getting close to college age, and funds were needed for that.

But now two of the three are out of school and on their own, and the third is close enough to done that the end is in sight, so it's time to get back into the Oldsmobile hobby.


I've attached some photos of the car I took while it was still in the driveway of the previous owner and I was up at his house looking at it.

I know it's missing the "Oldsmobile" script on the right side of the trim piece at the bottom of the trunk lid just to the left of the right tail light, a trim piece just below the right tailight, and the "Delta 88" script on the right rear fender. I'm hoping I can get all of these at the upcoming OCA Nationals later in July. It's being held only about 4 hours from where I live.

One change I already made was to get rid of the dry-rotted rear tires and replace all four with white sidewall Firestones. I don't think the car would have made it 10 miles on the rubber that was on it, but we made it back the 50 miles to home this evening without a problem.


I have a couple of quick questions. The casting number on the block (389244D) indicates a 425, which is what he told me was in the car. What's the other big number behind that one mean? It's 397857.

Also, please take a look at the photos of the engine compartment and tell me what's not correct. Some things I know, like the battery hold "bungie cord" and the incorrect radiator cap.

For instance, is that the right air cleaner? Something is missing between the air cleaner arm and the valve cover just below it on the left side as you look at the photo. Crankcase breather?

The engine should be red, correct? The owner told me he painted it gold because he liked the color better. (He obviously wasn't that concerned with maintaining originality!)

One last question. The rear window is glass. Is that correct? Was glass available iin '67 convertible rear windows? I'm thinking that the top is in such good shape that it had to have been replaced at least once in the last 42 years, and maybe whoever owned it at the time had a glass windows put in. The previous owner didn't know.


Thanks for reading, and I look forward to lots of posts and info on here!



Dan



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Old July 1st, 2009, 07:22 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Welcome to the site Dan. I am into earlier Oldsmobiles but someone will pipe in with the information your requesting. Nice car, I like the Interior it goes well with the yellow paint. Enjoy your car its top down weather
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Old July 1st, 2009, 07:45 AM   #3 (permalink)
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thank you

Thank you, Pat. Yes, it most certainly is top-down weather, and the top on this car goes up and down like a champ.

Also, during the drive home, I didn't get any little bugs slipping through the seal between the top of the windshield and the front of the top dropping down onto the top of the dashboard like I used to all the time with the '75 Delta convertible. It seemed that no matter what I tried (new weatherstripping, etc.), I couldn't get a good seal there on that car.


Dan
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Old July 1st, 2009, 09:01 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I like it another B-body on the scene!! I agree with Citcapp that brown interior is the perfect match for the yellow exterior. To me it looks like your missing the crank case breather tube. Rotate the breather counter clockwise so the hole in the valve cover lines up with the nipple on the breather body (behind the arm). On my 350 rocket the tube on the arm connected to another tube on my exhaust manifold's heat riser to supply the automatic choke with heat. I'm not sure how it's done on a 425 but that's how it's done on my 350. None the less that's a beautiful ride you have there. Good luck with it.
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Old July 1st, 2009, 09:25 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Welcome to the site. I see you are in Ohio. What part? It looks in nice shape. I have some 67's myself. Later, Ken
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Old July 1st, 2009, 10:07 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Welcome. My first car (a 1968 Vista Cruiser) was saffron, so I've always had a thing for that color on an Olds. You are correct to suspect the air cleaner. That's a later model Chevy part and DEFINITELY has to go.
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Old July 1st, 2009, 10:07 AM   #7 (permalink)
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nice cars

now if I could only find parts for my 67 delmont 88
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Old July 1st, 2009, 10:08 AM   #8 (permalink)
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That's not a 1967 aircleaner- looks like a mid-70s Chevy piece to me, possibly Buick. 1968 was the first year for the preheat tube. Correct aircleaners are fairly easy to find.

Check with Fusick for a battery hold-down. www.fusick.com . They will rapidly become your friends for the big cars.

Glass rear windows were standard on 67 GM convertibles.

Looks like car has had 15" wheels installed. Factory was 14" but big 14" tires are hard to find thru normal channels.

Agreed on the 71-76 convertible header seal. I could never get my 73 to seal well either.

You have a good start. Trim parts are available for these cars and usually reasonably priced. I've always thought the 1967s were among the best styled and best quality cars Oldsmobile ever built.
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Old July 1st, 2009, 10:15 AM   #9 (permalink)
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trim parts

when you say trim parts are you refering to chrome as I have a missing piece said to be a dog leg and the rubber/plastic bumper fillers
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Old July 1st, 2009, 12:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I have one of your trim pieces

I have the piece for your passenger side taillight. I bought the wrong side on Ebay. Let me know. I'll sell for the same price I got it for. Nice car.
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Old July 1st, 2009, 01:54 PM   #11 (permalink)
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thank you for the comments

It's nice to see so many responses. Let me go through them down the line.


FATRATMATT and joe_padavano,

Thanks for the air cleaner info. I have thought all along that it's wrong. It should be red, and it should have a big decal on it that says "Skyrocket" on it or something like that, right? What is the correct decal? Should the arm of the air cleaner be extended to the passenger side as the incorrect one I have now is? Does it matter which carburetor is there? Should this have a 2-bbl or a 4? Does that affect the air cleaner that goes with it?



delmontcruiser,

Aren't the Deltas, Dynamics, and Delmonts all pretty much the same basic car with variations only in the choice of available engines, level of trim, and body styles offered? Isn't this like the Chevy situation with Biscayne/Bel Air/Impala/Caprice? All basically the same chassis and body sheet metal, but differences in engines, interior and exterior trim and brightwork, and comfort and convenience inside?

Yes, when I say trim, I'm referring to the various bright and brushed pieces of metal around this and on top of that.


rocketraider,

Yes, a battery hold-down is one of the first orders of business. I've seen the Fusick listing. Thank you.

Thanks for the info on the glass rear window.

As far as the wheels, those are 14-inchers. What's on the car right now are Firestone FR380, 215/70R14.


Kennybill,

Yes, I'm in southeastern Ohio, in Athens. I drove the car home from Zanesville last night. The owner before that lived in Mt. Vernon. The car is very slowly making its way south.


bmwashington,

I'm interested. Let me get in touch with you separately.



Now, another question. Any advice on removing seat belt hold-down bolts? I've done it before, I know they're a bear, and that's probably on purpose so they're not easily removed. But that didn't stop a previous owner of this car. What he couldn't do with a wrench he did with a pair of scissors as all of the rear belts have been cut off right at the bolts. Whoever did that didn't just want to push the seat belts down into the space between the bottom and back cushions, he wanted them out of his car altogether. Judging from the condition of the ends where the cuts are, I would say that this was done a long time ago.

Anyway, I want to put belts back there, and I'd like to re-use the existing bolt holes. Any secrets to getting them out? I've sprayed penetrating oil and WD-40 on them, and I'll do that a few more times to let it soak in, but the bolt heads look to be specifically designed to be difficult to get good purchase on as they are sort of tapered from the center to the edge and they're not very thick to begin with. So they're very difficult to get a wrench good and tight on.


One more question. Should there be an "Oldsmobile" rocket logo right in the center of the grill? If so, I'm missing that. Anyone got one?


Thanks again.



Dan
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Old July 1st, 2009, 06:13 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I don't know enough about the dynamic to say much about it but the delmont ,delta and 98 in 67 had many similaritys the frontends though the chrome may have been different were the same.I have seen the 67 front end on a 68 car on ebay though odd bolted right on so not a major amount changed but noticably the taillights on the 68 were tall instead of wide on the 67.The other was that the nose was flater or smoother than the 67.One thing of interest that I have not been able to find is how many 67 delmonts were produced in 67.I was wondering were you can get the parts (chrome) you spoke of most of what I found was on ebay.I recently contacted fusick and they could not help me with any of the parts I need.

I looked at your pictures and yes you are missing your rocket old emblem that belongs in your grill I have seen many of them on ebay but never needed one

Last edited by delmontcrusier; July 1st, 2009 at 06:16 PM. Reason: new info
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Old July 1st, 2009, 06:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
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trim

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmontcrusier View Post
One thing of interest that I have not been able to find is how many 67 delmonts were produced in 67.
There are two books that ought to be on the shelf of any Olds enthusiast. I had both at one time, but I sold them after I sold my '75 Delta back in 2001. I was thinking I wouldn't need them again!

Anyway, one is "The Cars of Oldsmobile" by the late Dennis Casteele. He was the editor of the OCA's Journey With Olds for many years.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087...sr=8-1&seller=

The other is "Setting the Pace: Oldsmobile's First 100 Years" by James Walkinshaw and the now late Helen Jones Earley. Earley for a long time was the head of the Olds history center in Lansing and who had the unofficial title of "The First Lady of Oldsmobile." I remember back when I bought the Jetstar in 1991. The FIRST thing you did when you took possession of an old Olds was write to the history center and give them whatever information you had about the car (VIN, etc.). She would write back to you personally with whatever information she had, sometimes including xerox copies of dealer guides, production info, and that sort of thing. Then she would always apologize because she couldn't provide you with more! She was truly a great lady.

This book was written in anticipation of and in honor of the 100th anniversary of Oldsmobile in 1997, and a copy was given to everyone who registered for that event. I was there, and I took my '75 Delta. It was an experience and a half.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/078...F8&me=&seller=

Both of these books have detailed production information about Oldsmobiles. I'm sure they would have Delmont 88 production broken down by year and by body style within a year.

I, for one, would like to know how many '67 Delta 88 convertibles were produced.


Quote:
Originally Posted by delmontcrusier View Post
I was wondering were you can get the parts (chrome) you spoke of most of what I found was on ebay.I recently contacted fusick and they could not help me with any of the parts I need.
I didn't mean to imply that I knew of any particular source. I assume they'll be found the way they always have been, by scouring the swap meets, contacting vendors in Hemmings, and that sort of thing. I'm hoping to find some at the OCA meet in Pennsylvania later this month.

By the way, anyone remember Hall's Oldsmobile Salvage? They went out of business about 10 or 12 years ago, but as I recall when I was fixing up my '64 Jetstar back about 15 years ago, they were THE place to call when you needed Oldsmobile parts. They seemed to always have any trim piece, bumper, fender, you name it. They were located in Oklahoma, I believe, and it was sad day when the owner (I think his name was Warren Hall) decided to retire and was looking to sell the operation. I don't know if he ever did, but if he did, whoever bought it didn't continue it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by delmontcrusier View Post
I looked at your pictures and yes you are missing your rocket old emblem that belongs in your grill I have seen many of them on ebay but never needed one
I figured as much. Just one of about 2 million things I'll be looking for at the OCA meet in Pennsylvania in a couple of weeks!



Dan
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Old July 1st, 2009, 07:39 PM   #14 (permalink)
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the '64 and the '75

I keep talking about those two previous Oldsmobiles I once owned, so I thought I'd actually post a photo of each.

The first is the 1964 Jetstar 88 Holiday Coupe (2-door hardtop). I bought it in August of 1991 for $700, from, of all places, a used car lot in a small town a few miles from here. It had about 123,000 miles on it, and it needed many things. To name some that you can see in the photo, the front bumper was all there but needed to be re-chromed, which it was at a shop in Charleston, West Virigina. The rear bumper was rusted through in places, so another was needed, and found, and that was re-chromed at the same place. The left front fender was almost totally bondo, so a replacment from a '64 Dynamic 88 was found (I can't remember where), and that was put on before the car was repainted.

The trim piece between the two sets of headlights right in the middle of the grill with red Oldsmobile logo is a perfect example of something I got from Hall's Oldsmobile Salvage. The original was pitted and had lost the center red color. Hall's had an NOS piece, just gorgeous, which looked like it came out of the factory yesterday. As I recall, it cost about $100, but it made about a million bucks worth of difference in the look.

I spent much of my life with this car explaining just what the h*ll it was! The Jetstar was made for only three model years, and almost no one who wasn't Oldsmobile savvy had heard of it. Half the people coming up to me asked where I got the unusual Impala and did it maybe have a 409! How insulting!!


This was photo was taken on August 14, 1993 at a car show in Gallipolis, Ohio in the town square right on the Ohio River. You can see that the car is in with others in a row of old cars at the show. Anyone who mistakes it for an Impala should have his head examined!

Click the image to open in full size.




The second photo is of the 1975 Delta 88 Royale convertible. This one I bought in March of 1994 from a fellow in Florida who had placed an ad in Hemmings. This was before email. I had to actually call the guy, and he had to actually send me photos through the regular mail!

Anyway, I bought a round-trip ticket from Columbus to Orlando, and he met me at the airport. If I ended up not wanting it, I would use the return ticket the next morning after having had a fun-filled, one day in Orlando. If I did want it, I would not use the return half and instead drive the car home. The latter is what I obviously did.

The car had 95,000 miles on it. It didn't need a lot, but I did put in a new carpet, and I had a new top put on and had the driver's seat reupholstered. Other than that, it was mostly little things. The white vinyl trim stripe that runs the length of the car on both sides was missing. When these cars are repainted, that piece is removed, of course, but it's often damaged in the process or so far gone that it's not worth putting back on. So you see lots of '75's and others from the early 70s that don't have that strip. The one you see on the car I got from J.C. Whitney. It was a little thinner (3/4 of an inch, I think, whereas the original was wider--1 inch I think), but it really otherwise looked very good, I thought, and made a nice improvement in the appearance.

I did a lot of checking, and as far as I could tell, I was only the third owner. In the glovebox when I got the car was, of all things, the build sheet. It must have been under the rear seat or something and whoever found it was smart enough to save it. Anyway, it listed a code for the dealer to whom the car was originally delivered. I wrote to the Olds history center with that info, and they were able to give me the name of the dealership, which turned out to be in Trenton, New Jersey. They were still in business 19 years after the car was sold, and I wrote to them. The owner was very kind and wrote back immediately. He said that they didn't have much in the way of records from that far back, but he was able to find what he called a "delivery card" for the car that they still had in their files, and it had the name and address of the person who bought the car originally. He said he checked the Trenton phone book, but no one with the name on the card was in the Trenton book in 1994.

But that didn't stop me! The guy I bought it from told me that he had bought it in Florida from the original owner (or at least, they said they were the original owner), so I figured that it was very possible that whoever had bought the car in Trenton in 1975 could easily have moved to Florida between then and 1994.

This was at a time when phone number collections were starting to be available on CD at libraries. I went to the library, and I searched for this person's name in the entire state of Florida using one of those CD-based databases. Fortunately, it was a bit of an unusual name, and I got a very manageable three hits (thank heavens his name wasn't John Smith!).

But this is where the story essentially does come to a halt. I wrote to all three telling them that I'm not a crackpot and that I was wondering if they would be willing to tell me if they had purchased an Olds Delta 88 convertible in Trenton, New Jersey in 1975 because I had that car now and I wondered if they could tell me anything more about it.

ONE of the three wrote back almost immediately. He was very friendly, but he said that he was not the person I was looking for. I never heard from the other two.

So that's where the ownership history story ends. I had to content myself with the knowledge that it really was very likely that I was only the third owner of the car.

(By the way, I also tried to trace the ownership history of the Jetstar, and that's a story in itself. The short version is that the car had had about 10 owners, some for as short as only a few months, between about 1980 and when I bought the car in 1991. I wasn't able to go back beyond 1980 because of an issue having to do with replacing a lost title on the car at that time.)

This photo was taken on a quiet side street near my house in the early spring of 1996. Wasn't it just a gorgeous car? I've seen lots of '71-'75 Delta 88 convertibles, and they all look good, but I always thought the red paint with white interior and white top was just about the most eye-popping color combination you could have. It always turned heads when I drove by. I always ask myself why I sold it (but then I quickly remember the money!), and I always ask myself why Olds and GM stopped making them.

Click the image to open in full size.


Thanks for looking!




Dan

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Old July 1st, 2009, 07:42 PM   #15 (permalink)
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From Standard Catalog of Oldsmobile:

3,525 1967 Delmont 88 converts produced. All were 425 cars.

14,471 1967 Delta 88 converts produced.

Other Delmonts:

330 cars- 10786 Holiday Coupes, 10600 Holiday Sedans, 15076 Town Sedans

425 cars- 16669 Holiday Coupes, 21909 Holiday Sedans, 21511 Town Sedans


Re rear seat belts: Use a SIX-POINT socket on these. An impact wrench helps break them loose.

NOS 1967 B/C trim shows up on eBay frequently. Market determines its price, but most of it goes reasonable. I've found Ninety Eight pieces generally go higher.

I know that 215 series tires are about the biggest 14" you can get anymore without going the reproduction tire route, but they are too small for a car that size and weight. Tire dealers will tell you that's what their books call for, but that is only because it's all they can get. Universal Tire is making a 235/75R14 tire (IN PENNSYLVANIA- AMERICAN MADE!) that will be just about right for these cars, but at $200 a pop, well... The price of low specialty production, but Coker gets about the same for theirs that are hecho en Mexico.
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Old July 1st, 2009, 07:46 PM   #16 (permalink)
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thanks

Quote:
14,471 1967 Delta 88 converts produced.
Thanks!


Thanks, too, for the info about the seat belt bolt. I saw that it's six-point. I'll have to get an impact wrench.


I know what you mean about the tire sizes, but tell me what you think about what's on this page:

http://www.turbinecar.com/tires.htm

A Chilton's book I have says the tire size on a '67 Delta 88 is H78-14. This website puts the equivalent of that at 215/70-14, which is what I have on the car now.


Dan

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Old July 1st, 2009, 08:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I know what you mean about having to tell people about your cars. I have to tell people my car is a delmont not a delta. I have seen many get confused and I have to tell them that they were produced for two years and both year had a different look.I went to a car show last year pre reg and they changed my info had delta on the card. but none the less you had some nice cars
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Old July 1st, 2009, 08:18 PM   #18 (permalink)
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production & tires

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketraider View Post
From Standard Catalog of Oldsmobile:

3,525 1967 Delmont 88 converts produced. All were 425 cars.

14,471 1967 Delta 88 converts produced.

Other Delmonts:

330 cars- 10786 Holiday Coupes, 10600 Holiday Sedans, 15076 Town Sedans

425 cars- 16669 Holiday Coupes, 21909 Holiday Sedans, 21511 Town Sedans


Re rear seat belts: Use a SIX-POINT socket on these. An impact wrench helps break them loose.

NOS 1967 B/C trim shows up on eBay frequently. Market determines its price, but most of it goes reasonable. I've found Ninety Eight pieces generally go higher.

I know that 215 series tires are about the biggest 14" you can get anymore without going the reproduction tire route, but they are too small for a car that size and weight. Tire dealers will tell you that's what their books call for, but that is only because it's all they can get. Universal Tire is making a 235/75R14 tire (IN PENNSYLVANIA- AMERICAN MADE!) that will be just about right for these cars, but at $200 a pop, well... The price of low specialty production, but Coker gets about the same for theirs that are hecho en Mexico.

I am not shure weather my car is a holiday or town sedan it has a 330

I have 15 s with the cragars on my car they are low profile but rub alittle on the inner wheel well if i turn tight but they look good and it rides nice
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Old July 1st, 2009, 08:35 PM   #19 (permalink)
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town/holiday/celebrity

Somebody should certainly correct me if I'm wrong, and I most certainly am on some of this I'm sure, but I'm pretty sure that "holiday" meant pillarless. A Holiday Coupe was a 2-door hardtop. A Holiday sedan was a 4-door hardtop. "Town" meant with a pillar. So a four-door with a center pillar is a Town Sedan, and a 2-door with a pillar (what I think is often referred to as a 2-door "post," especially by the Cutlass guys) is a Town Coupe. For some model years, or on certain lines, "Celebrity" was used in place of Town

I don't think engine size had anything to do with it.

I know for certain based on the literature I still have for the 1964 Jetstar 88 line that

Celebrity Sedan = 4-door pillar
Holiday Sedan = 4-door hardtop
Holiday Coupe = 2-door hardtop

I don't think Olds made a 2-door pillar, at least in the Jetstar 88 line. I think they did in the Super 88 line, but I'm not sure. '64 was the last year for the Super 88.

The above, as I say, is only true for sure for Jetstar 88. I think that in the 98s for 1964, the pillared cars were called "Town" sedans and, if there was such a thing, Town coupes.


Again, I might be all wet on a lot of this, but I think I have the gist of it right.



By the way, I always thought it was a bit sad that all of the Olds full-size names (Super, Dynamic, Jetstar, Delmont, and Delta) that came and went in the 1960s and before, ultimately got whittled down to just Delta 88 by the end of the 60s until the 90s, and then, even worse, just "Eighty-Eight" by the end of Oldsmobile altogether. (I kept waiting for them to reduce it further to just "Eighty" or "Eight.") Wouldn't it have been fun to go to your Olds dealer in, say, 1996, and be able to buy a '96 Super 88?



Dan

Last edited by jaunty75; July 1st, 2009 at 08:39 PM.
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Old July 1st, 2009, 08:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
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trivia question

What was special about the 1984 Oldsmobile 98?
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Old July 1st, 2009, 09:07 PM   #21 (permalink)
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you go my mind going on this so I looked it up one thing is 84 was the last year they made rear wheel drive here is the info along with the 8 trac elimination


"The federal 5 miles per hour (8.0 km/h) impact standard was rolled back for 1984, prompting GM to make major changes to the bumpers to save weight; predictably, this drastically reduced their effectiveness. An 8-track tape player was no longer an option.
Production ended in March 1984. These cars were actually sold concurrently with the new front-wheel drive 1985 model."
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 04:43 AM   #22 (permalink)
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not what I was thinking

Quote:
84 was the last year they made rear wheel drive here is the info along with the 8 trac elimination
These are true, and the first one is probably related to the answer I have, but this isn't specifically what I had in mind.
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 04:45 AM   #23 (permalink)
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tiny correction

Hall's Oldsmobile Salvage was in Kansas, not Oklahoma.
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 12:26 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Nice looking car!! Welcome Back!
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 02:18 PM   #25 (permalink)
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thanks

thanks

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Old July 6th, 2009, 05:31 PM   #26 (permalink)
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It would seem no one else guessed on your quiz so what was the answer
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Old July 6th, 2009, 08:39 PM   #27 (permalink)
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answer

The 1984 98 was special because it was the last true 98. In other words, it was the last 90-series Oldsmobile with an 8-cylinder engine, which is what "98" originally stood for. After '84, 98's came with V-6's, and "98" ceased to mean what it had for the previous 40-odd years.
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Old July 7th, 2009, 05:39 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I wish I would have caught this post earlier. That is an awsome car. I didn't read all of the above posts, but make sure you check out Fusicks if nobody else has mentioned it. They supply plenty of stuff for the full sized Oldsmobiles. Kanter is also a good supplier for hard to find parts.
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Old July 7th, 2009, 05:39 AM
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