35tac

If a 66 Cutlass convert were to be found that was to have been listed as an original drive train ( 330 HC) (Auto on tree), what should be the most obvious clues and numbers I should be looking for? I have done some reading but I am confused. I have prior experience with Corvettes 66-80. Any tips?

Same car Except power brakes, who is the best provider of non disc brake parts and brake lines. That said how tough is a 66 to convert to a dual brake master cylinder system.
Thanks
Wayne

lemoldsnut

Unless you have the warranty protecto plate that came with the car you can not tell if the motor is original to that car. Olds did not put vin numbers on engines until 68. You can tell if it is a 330 or a 350 or 403 or 400 or 455 or 425 and so on. Trans will be a st300 or Jetaway as they are commonly referred to. If you find one I can help with id on one. Or if you find one and want to make it correct I can do a 330 and a Jetaway also.

Drum brake parts you can get almost anywhere. They are the same as almost all GM A and F body cars till 72 and the rears even longer. Easy to convert to dual master just use parts off a 67. I can help with that too. Hope this info helps.

Larry
lemoldsnut@aol.com
Redmond, Or
calls 8 am to 8 pm west coast time 541-815-4363

35tac

Thanks Larry, I agree the VIN number is not tied to the engine but what should the code on the block be for a 330. I have read that this may be a "V" or "X" tied to a date code and trans suffix. Is that correct? What else?
Thanks
Wayne

lemoldsnut

66 was the first year for the quadrajet and it is different from all others. it has a external arm on top that activates the secondary upper flap. Are you looking at a specific car? What does it have for numbers on the block, the number on the head drivers side forward of the first spark plug? Should be the same passenger side by last spark plug. Block casting number should be on the block behind the water pump and next to the oil fill and oil sending unit. Intake should be a divorced choke set up and on egr. I can decode the cowl tag for you also.

joe_padavano

Without the Protec-O-Plate, you will never be able to tell if it is the original motor. The casting numbers and engine unit codes will only tell you if it is a correct motor for that car. Even with the Protec-O-Plate, it only proves that one head is original.

35tac

Looking at a 66 vert yet not seen in person Data tag as phoned in was supposed to be the following;

05 0 5
66-33867 LAN 8657
TR 983 B D-4 PAINT

ACC (1) W (2) X (3) blank

(4) F (5) Y

Data Tag Decoder says following:

D-4 Astro Blue ? with Blue to Top
983-B
Blue cloth and Vinyl Strato buckets
1-W-Tint windshield
2-X-
4-F-
5-Y Deluxe seat belts.


Having seen a few pictures (not good and clear) so far I know this. It is Lucerne Mist. I see nothing written about Astro Blue in any of my 66 reference material. I have the Cars and Parts 442 book and an original 1966 Oldsmobile Chassis Service Manual. It looks like a 330 HC engine with red air cleaner, power steering, power brakes and automatic on the tree. It is a light blue interior with vinyl Astro buckets with no headrest. Currently has a white top.

Data Tag Decoder has no X in ACC 2 and no F in ACC 4. ACC 5 is Y deluxe seat belts. So I hope to view this car but I need comments on these discrepancies before I make an appointment for the trip. Any help?
Thanks
Wayne

lemoldsnut

Color Lucerne mist
black top
medium blue bucket seats
2-2 speed jetaway transmission
4-remote outside mirror

Hope this helps

Larry

Octania

The engine application code stamped into the front of the RH head will indicate the type engine it was on originally- see section 0 of the 1966 Chassis Service Manual for application code list. I vaguely recall something like W######G for 330 4-bbl, where "#" is the 6 digits of engine unit number. The "W" [or whatever it is per CSM] prefix indicates the engine size and possibly body series it is in, and the suffix can be [nothing], L, G, perhaps others.

Awful lot of trouble to verify the correctness of a lowly Auto Trans Column shifted Cutlass 330. Usually that kind of effort is reserved for 442's and the like.

35tac

Thanks for the insight guys. Larry, I think D-4 was Lucerne Mist with blue top. History of the car is important for me and makes the event more enjoyable. I'll see how things go if I look at the car.
Wayne

35tac

Checked out a 1966 Cutlass vert today and it has the following data tag numbers. I have a question on acc #2.


02D
ST 66-33867 LAN 4943 BODY
TR 088 C M 1 PAINT

ACC 1 is W
ACC 2 is X
ACC 5 is Y

So tag decoder says: Autumn bronze with white vert top. Bronze vinyl custom sport front seat. Tinted windshield, floor mounted auto trans and deluxe seat belts. So does this really mean it had a floor mounted auto trans or is this a mistake. Could you have such a thing with a bench seat. Any ideas or did someone provide a column mounted shifter.
Thanks
Wayne

joe_padavano

The accessory code letters changed from year to year. In 1965, 2X meant floor shift automatic. For 1967, 2X only meant ST300 two speed automatic (not necessarily floor shift). I don't have 1966 model year info, unfortunately. It was not possible to get a floor shift automatic with a bench seat. It is EXTREMELY unlikely that someone converted the car to a bench seat and column shift. If they did, you will see the unused inboard mounting points for the bucket seat tracks under the bench seat.

Are you sure that 2X isn't really a 2K, meaning air conditioning?

35tac

Joe, I saw it close up and personal. It is 2X. I'll try to attach the picture. It's attached, double click should give you a good look. BTW, I couldn't find a a number behind the alternator so I think it's a replacement block. The casting number is 381917. I appreciate the input as I surely am a newbie on these Oldsmobiles. Not as much published as on Corvettes that I am familiar with.
Thanks
Wayne

35tac

joe, I ran the data tag on a 66 F85 that just appeared on flea-bay. Regarding my previous inquiry this car also had a 2X on the data plate and when I run it thru the decoder, it shows 2X as floor mounted trans, which picture shows an automatic on the tree with a bench seat. So I guess that there is a problem with 2X when running a 66 thru the decoder. Interesting stuff.Thanks
Wayne

jaunty75

088-C = bronze vinyl custom sport front seat
W = tinted windshield
2X = floor-mounted automatic transmission
5Y = deluxe seat belts

35tac

So if you look at the pictures of the car you can see it's an automatic on the column? Definitely not a floor mounted automatic. So 2X may not be correct in the decoder.
Thanks
Wayne

tmaleck

My decode information say 66 with 2x is auto trans, column shift. The auto trans floor shift is code 2G. I have a note to the side of the 2G that says used with D55.

Tim

35tac

Thanks Tim, how can I obtain the decode information that you have.
Thanks
Wayne

Octania

I'll up the ante

How can WE get this information?

Why is it like a damn secret to get the official lists of what the 5V and 2X and all that meant?

Youse who gots it, PUBLISH IT please.

tmaleck

Here is a word doc of my decode file. I've compiled it over a few years starting with the basic 65-67 information. My focus has been 66-67, so that I believe is the most accurate. Hope it helps.

Tim

35tac

Tim, thank you very, very much for the info. I knew there had to be an answer someplace. I have seen 2X twice on data plates and both cars were automatics with the shifter on the column not on the floor. Really appreciate your help.
Wayne

coldwar

Geez I thought it has been proven those transmission data plate codes only loosely indicates what transmission option for which the floor pan was prepared on the assembly line based on a car build selected transmission and interior options. One code means hump for standard trans floor shifter which then could indicate three or four speed manual, another for brackets for console but either auto or manual shifter, another for column shift but not exactly indicating auto or three on the tree (which might be standard equipment therefore not indicated), etc etc. It might loosely indicate what transmission option it might have but not exactly reported by the stamped code indication. Do I recall this correctly? I have a 1966 F-85 Deluxe four door sedan 330 4bbl dual exhaust with anti-spin three on the tree 66 F-85 strippo parts car, here it is as a another example:

1966%20F-85%20Deluxe%20parts%20car%202.jpg

35tac

I think the codes are used somewhat loosely although in the case of F85 wasn't three on a tree standard hence no code. The examples I was trying to figure out were both Cutlass Converts with automatics with bench seats so X showed up in column 2 indicating an automatic floor mount with console. Which I have seen as not available. Lots to learn.
Thanks
Wayne

coldwar

OK got that but console brackets as the example would seem to obviate floor shift, right? Either manual or standard, of several options each. Or manual trans hump and brackets as another. See that's the idea no direct indication of the trans option by stamped code report, just narrows the possibilities.

EDIT: Here is some more examples for you. This is what I could not recall: 2 is second option group, X indicates floor trans automatic which is what the available info reported at that time. Perhaps better info available now, this car has a strato bench and two speed on column, and always did. I am second owner from new delivery:

1966%20silver%20442.jpg

This car has floor shift four speed, with console. I'm pretty sure this car also is original, I am second owner:

O9E 4
ST 66-33817 LAN 577 BODY
TR 980-B_____ R-R__PAINT
W 2LG
5VY



1966%20red%20442%202.jpg

1966%20red%20442%201.jpg

1966%20red%20442%204.jpg

1966%20red%20442%203.jpg

coldwar

I forgot this car: 1966 Cutlass convertible 330 4bbl Jetaway floor shift console, mostly original, the 'BANGMOBILE'. Anyone recognize the assembly plant? On 50's Oldsmobile BF is Kansas City Kansas I think.

1966%20cut%20conv%202.jpg

1966%20cut%20conv%203.jpg

1966%20cut%20conv%201.jpg

35tac

BF is supposed to be Fremont.
Wayne

35tac

I know something for sure. My 66 Cutlass vert had a 4 speed and I needed to raise it up to secure a kill switch after the car was stolen once. That required the removal of 4 chromed screws two from each side and I do remember the screws going into brackets. I wish I had that car back. I have read that 66 Cutlass verts were built in either Lansing or Fremont.Today being from Northern Ohio (Cleveland) I assumed that my car came from Lansing, which is natural considering I ordered it in March and received it in April. Point is that some one commented that the Fremont tags were a known to have less details than Lansing tags. Maybe that is true.
Thanks
Wayne

coldwar

Thanks - I never looked at the data plate on this car before today, or if I did I cannot recall it. It did spend most of it's operating life out west, and based on the other Fremont thread I am now tempted to drop the fuel tank and hope for a broadcast sheet.

35tac

Would be nice to find the sheet. When I was doing Corvettes that was the "Holy Grail". It's hard to tell you how I felt when I found the build sheet of my 67 Vette on the tank in 1988. great fun.
Thanks
Wayne

White_Knuckles

What are you seeking here 35tac? I'm in with the comment - this type of effort is normally reserved for 442's. There's no big value leap for a numbers matching, special optioned, super vert. It's all about condition. Exploring the tag is fun for historical info but is it a big deal for finding a car to play with? Maybe you're thinking of restoring to a perfectly original car that matches the plate where you need to like the original colors etc.?

There are kits to convert the brakes to dual master disc. In that the car could have had 'em in the 60's may be enough of a motivator to simply run a safer setup? I have a total Frakincar with many modern upgrades and mods. It was a big deal to me to upgrade to discs to stop the pig. Are the dics correct? Don't care. Parts are getting scarce where restoration doesn't make sense unless you're into part researching and spending crazy money to acquire only the proper period stuff. There's a 442 hood on Craigslist they want $1,500 for. Yikes!

My insurance value is 8K as it's not worth the big bucks some think they run. Checkout Hagerty's vehicle appraisal guide for cars you're considering.

35tac

Information is what I seek. Do you have a problem with that? Sorry to waste your time. I'm not interested in a 442. Should everyone be?
Thanks for your response.
Wayne

White_Knuckles

Wow, no problem here, just trying to understand pursuit of a car by tag decoding? I've never seen that other than with true collectibles. I thought a vette expert was new to chasing Olds classics which is tricky to land a valuable one. Thus the Hagerty tip.

You may think my and the other poster were out of line questioning why the tag data may drive a purchase? Just curious of the intent such as show-car or driver?

This forum is all about info. and friendly sharing of it. Reading through the thread, I wondered what you're solving for? Again, many newbies think these 66-67's are worth something. Sorry I asked.

35tac

Being prepared to rule out being bushwhacked when looking at purchasing a car. It wasn't "pursuit of a car by tag decoding". Forget it, I have!
Wayne