Wheels from 70 - 72

[hamm36]

What are the major differences of the factory wheels between 70 and 72? I am not looking for numbers correct, just the orginal sleeper look. And what size wheel will work with front disk brakes? Trying to plain head.

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by hamm36

What are the major differences of the factory wheels between 70 and 72? I am not looking for numbers correct, just the orginal sleeper look. And what size wheel will work with front disk brakes? Trying to plain head.

None.

If you have stock style 10.75" disc brakes, the 14 x 7 wheels were used from the factory. Note that not all 14" wheels (or 15" wheels for that matter) are created equally. Even if the width and backspacing are the same, the contour of the dropped section of the rim can vary. Depending on the shape it may or may not contact the caliper.

[hamm36]

thanks Joe,
Today I picked up the 15 x 7 factory type wheels with the snap on center cap. A few chips on the panted parts, and couple dings on the trim rings. The center caps have some pitting, but over all not bad for a $100 with tires that still have tread and hold air. I do not have disk brakes, but I might be getting the after market. Cant make up my mind on disk. I asked before just to make sure. I take it 15's should have plenty of room?

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by hamm36

...I asked before just to make sure. I take it 15's should have plenty of room?

Actually, these don't. The SSII/SSIII wheels unfortunately use the same center stamping for both the 14" and 15" versions. As a result, the rim of the 15" wheel has a deeper drop center to meet the center stamping. The available clearance for calipers is approximately the same for all three sizes of these rims (14x6, 14x7, and 15x7. The good news is that they WILL clear the factory 10.75" rotors with stock calipers and brackets. There is no guarantee that they will clear any aftermarket conversions, however.

[Allan R]

Originally Posted by hamm36

What are the major differences of the factory wheels between 70 and 72? I am not looking for numbers correct, just the orginal sleeper look. And what size wheel will work with front disk brakes? Trying to plain head.

My 72 has front discs from the factory. They use SS11 14X7.

[hamm36]

I have a set of disk brakes coming. They said, "15's no problem." I guess we will see by Christmas, of not Thanksgiving.

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by hamm36

I have a set of disk brakes coming. They said, "15's no problem." I guess we will see by Christmas, of not Thanksgiving.

"They" say a lot.

Once again, NOT ALL 15" WHEELS HAVE THE SAME BACKSIDE CLEARANCE.

[Allan R]

Originally Posted by hamm36

I have a set of disk brakes coming. They said, "15's no problem." I guess we will see by Christmas, of not Thanksgiving.

Who are you getting the disc brake setup from? Ask them if they have a return policy if the fit is wrong. It would be a shame to lose that kind of money.

[hamm36]

Originally Posted by hamm36

I have a set of disk brakes coming. They said, "15's no problem." I guess we will see by Christmas, of not Thanksgiving.

I figure it can not be any worst then the rest of the project so far. Everyone has been sooo pos (+) about it, it is no wonder people throw in the towel so often. If the wheel do not fit, no reasion the 15" Weild wheels I have wont work?
New MOOG Tie rods, ideler arm, ball joints, center link and arm bushings parts came in this week also. Rockauto with 5% off was over just over $400.
brakes: CPP out of California sloted roters and braided hoses. $599 total

[Jamesbo]

Originally Posted by joe_padavano

None.

If you have stock style 10.75" disc brakes, the 14 x 7 wheels were used from the factory. Note that not all 14" wheels (or 15" wheels for that matter) are created equally. Even if the width and backspacing are the same, the contour of the dropped section of the rim can vary. Depending on the shape it may or may not contact the caliper.

Joe,

Just to clarify. Will all Olds 14" &15" bolt on center SSII
wheels fit factory standard Olds front disc brakes. I thought they would but the concern is only on after market disc.Right?

[69'442]

On the same note. Do all Olds 14" 70-72 SS1's clear factory disc brakes?

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by Jamesbo

Joe,

Just to clarify. Will all Olds 14" &15" bolt on center SSII
wheels fit factory standard Olds front disc brakes. I thought they would but the concern is only on after market disc.Right?

All Olds SSII/SSIII wheels of any diameter, width, or type (bolt-on or snap-on) will clear factory 10.75" disk brakes. Well, except for the FWD versions used on the 80s Cierras.

Originally Posted by 69'442

On the same note. Do all Olds 14" 70-72 SS1's clear factory disc brakes?

Yes, if they truly are the 70-72 SSI wheels and not 66-69 wheels.

[Jamesbo]

Here's a site that makes me the differences in SS wheels
http://www.oldsmobility.com/superstock.htm#NOTE%205

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by Jamesbo

Here's a site that makes me the differences in SS wheels
http://www.oldsmobility.com/superstock.htm#NOTE%205

What's your question? By the way, the lower half of the page is copied from the Hollander's Interchange Manual, which is not always correct.

[Allan R]

Originally Posted by Jamesbo

Here's a site that makes me the differences in SS wheels
http://www.oldsmobility.com/superstock.htm#NOTE%205

You aren't the only one who got confused. I think the person who wrote the column also was confused.

SS1 is pictured properly.
BUT the SS11 and SS111 they post looking pretty are both pictures of the SS111.

The SS11 looks just like the scabby ones at the bottom of the page.

One of the major differences that is easy to spot between SS11 and SS111 is this:
SS11 uses bolt on center caps. (I believe they went away from this feature mostly because impact tools and sockets would damage the center caps when the wheel bolts were being put on or taken off.)
SS111 uses snap on center caps. Look at the contours of both the SS11 and SS111. They look really similar until you look at the very center. Then you'll see the difference. 111's had the raised center to accept the snap on caps.

As far as color goes: SS11 wheels were ALWAYS the same color-a dark argent. SS111 wheels were color coded to the body color of your car.

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by Allan R

You aren't the only one who got confused. I think the person who wrote the column also was confused.

BUT the SS11 and SS111 they post looking pretty are both pictures of the SS111.

The SS11 looks just like the scabby ones at the bottom of the page.

One of the major differences that is easy to spot between SS11 and SS111 is this:
SS11 uses bolt on center caps. (I believe they went away from this feature mostly because impact tools and sockets would damage the center caps when the wheel bolts were being put on or taken off.)
SS111 uses snap on center caps.

I'm afraid I must disagree. Everything I've ever seen says that the difference between SSII and SSIII is simply paint color. SSIIs were all argent, SSIIIs were body color. I will admit that the data is confusing, however, since the 1970 Rallye 350 and the 1970 Y74 pace cars both came with body color wheels that were not overtly called SSIII.


The bolt-on vs. snap-on centers is purely a calendar-based distinction, however. 1968-1974 SSII/SSIII wheels were all bolt-on centers, 1975-up were all snap-on centers. If (as you assert) the SSIII nomenclature was not used until the snap-on wheels were released in 1975, then why were the polycast styled wheels for the full size cars called SSIV as early as 1971? I would argue that (except for the two special cases of the Rallye 350 and Y74 cars), the first time body colored SSIII wheels were offered was the 1971 model year. Chronology suggests that the SSIII and SSIV designations were both used for the first time in 1971.

[Allan R]

I agree there's a lot of confusion. I looked up the options for my 1972 Cutlass and it provides for SS1 or SS11. It also showed a Gold Cutlass with SS11 wheels in argent, not color matched gold to the car. Hmmmmm....???? The more I look or hear the worse it gets. I don't know why the 1970 Pace cars or the Rallye 350 are color coded. They are striking, and they are obviously body color matched for those particular car. (maybe a special order combo?)

About the polycast.... again I refered to the options for 1971 and 1972 in the dealers brochure. Doesn't say anything about SS1V. Just says Super Stock wheels option for the big B Bodies. I noted that you posted the same info re polycast wheels on AACP web. I highly doubt that you would give out info that is wrong. I just never heard of SS1V designation. Something new to remember.

Anyway, for the most part it doesn't matter because my wheels will be color coded to my car no matter whether its SS11 or SS111. I don't own a trailer queen and don't want to. And I also don't want to end up with a meltdown about wheels between fellow Oldsmobilers.

Joe, if you do have some sources for pics or reading that would help me out, I'd really appreciate being able to read up and expand my knowledge base. If you have any titles please send them to me here or on a pm.

[Cameo White]

Hi all,

If you have a parts book with illustrations, check there. I am looking at my models through 1975 catalog with illustrations dated October 1976, pages 5-28 through 5-32.

It uses the Super Stock IV terminology beginning with 1971 wheel discs and wheels (except F85 or Toro). For 1972 it says clearly SSIV under 88 & 98. In both years it says 15 inch and they look different than the SSII's.

For F85 for the same years it uses SSI (PO5) and SSII (N66), both 14 inch (same for 1970 also).

1973 is where it gets confusing in this particular book. For the X and A body cars, it lists *N66--SSII (Cast grey wheel), and **N67--SSIV (wheel color same lower body) in the 14 inch size. B, C, and E body cars have no listed wheels, only caps.

For 1974, the X body got a 14 inch SSIII (N67--although it doesn't say what III means). The A body could get 14 inch SSII (Gray) (N66) or SSIII (body color) (N67). or 15 14 inch SSII (Gray) (N71) or SSIII (body color) (N72). Nothing for the B, C, and E except caps.

For 1975, the new H body shows a wierd 4 lug SSIII (N73) wheel--color matched to lower body. The X got the holdover 14 inch SSIII (N67--again it doesn't say what III means). The A got 15 inch SSII (Gray) (N71) or SSIII (Body color) (N72). Nothing for the B, C, and E except caps.

Confused yet?
Eric

[Bluevista]

Originally Posted by Cameo White

1973 is where it gets confusing in this particular book. For the X and A body cars, it lists *N66--SSII (Cast grey wheel), and **N67--SSIV (wheel color same lower body) in the 14 inch size.

I saw that in my parts book too and didn't want to open another can of worms, but I'll jump into the fire and give it a shot..

The SSIII wheels were offered since 1971 so I think the SSIV/SSIII I.D. problem in '73 is just a mistake because the SSIV was discontinued in '73 according to my book. I bet they would have caught it if the parts catalog had two different wheels with the same name in there.
The confusion arises from the fact the N67 SSIII wheels weren't listed in the parts catalog as a seperate wheel until '73 (as a IV but the pic and listing says III) and weren't on the factory optional equipment code list because they were just painted SSII's. If you look at dealer factory installed equipment lists with prices they are there and referenced in the 1971 assembly manual as the N67 SSIII wheel. The showroom brochure in '71 just said Super Stock wheels that were argent or gray colored and could be color keyed to the lower body color.

The article that guy wrote contradicts itself, the Sullivan guide has a chart in the back he also put together and it doesn't show the SSIII until '73 like the catalog, which is wrong.

As the warden says in the movie Cool Hand Luke "What we have here is (a) failure to communicate" between the parts people, marketing people, and the public 30 or 40 years later trying to identify Olds wheels..

They had an N67 code that just meant paint the SSII more or less, so why use space in the catalog? probably the bean counters again.
Confusing if you don't have the guides, manuals catalogs, and brochures, and listen to all the bady sourced info from self proclaimed experts.
I'm no expert and could be full of it too, but I source my info, blame GM not me.
The later ones are really confusing with the backspace differences, I have a '71 so that ain't my thang, yet.

BTW there is a guide at the Olds Junction at the top of the page which seems to be right on to me.

http://oldsjunction.classicoldsmobile.com/wheels.html

Allan

[Cameo White]

I went back and looked at the pictures in my illustrations catalog again. Remember, it is dated October 1976, so it came out after the fact.

For the 1973 wheels, the type font of the II and of the IV next to Super Stock wording in the wheel illustrations is different than other type fonts on the page. It is also different than the II, III, and IV used elsewhere in the illustrations. This leads me to believe that it was done as a "correction". Given that, I agree with amh555 that the nomenclature for the 73 wheels is a mistake in the illustrations manual.

The January 1975 parts catalog that I have does not call the 73 wheels "Super Sport"; rather it calls them Custom Sport without a numerical designation (such as II or III).

I also agree with amh555 that I'm no expert. I'm just providing to the larger community the information I can dig out of the GM source documents I happen to have.
Cheers,

[hamm36]

If any one cares, the wheels I got worked with the after market front disk break conversion kit I got from CPP. AGAIN, I had to send the rotors back. Only because they sent two different kind. I mean relay does any one else have this problem of having to do everything twice, when ordering part except Rob(TX), and I. Yes they paid for the round trip on the rotors and sent me two that matched. But sure getting tired of it, even one of the ball joints from Rockauto was wrong, the said keep it and refunded the money. If it was not for having all the bushings replaced, ball joints and all the moving parts in the steering it would have taken a day to do. Ho, did I say the 15x7 wheels fit with room to spar.

[mugzilla]

I like the look of my rims. I think the others look too much like a {delete} rim. I would have changed these but the rings are silent. I've seen these with(my car)
and without(the '68) beauty rings. Do the later rims come without rings?

[Oldsguy]

Take a look at this picture. I picked it off of Realoldspower.com

The link to the host site doesn't seem to be working for me but here is the thread at ROP. Apparently this guy has manufactured these wheels. But, they are very expensive.

[44TEETWO]

If anyone has a lead on JUST ONE of the SSI that is listed as 71 only, The all chrome, I need one to complete a set. I actually have 4 but one was installed on the car with the wrong lugs and it destroyed the holes. I would love to find just one more. I want them for my 67 442. Thanks